I think it goes against the Faith to say the primacy of the Church can be moved to a different city besides Rome.

There are numerous definitions involving this, but the First Vatican Council made several decrees that it is the Roman Pontiff who is the head of the Church. This would seem to exclude the bishop of Fatima from ever being the head of the Church.

Here's a quote:

What about Avignon? That's a historical precedent.

The primacy did not move, it was just that the Roman pontiff was in exile.

The text doesn't say that "the bishop of Fatima" would be the "head of the Church." You have jumped to that conclusion.

IMO, the text in question doesn't literally mean that the Holy See will be moved, geographically, to Fatima, Portugal. It, most likely, has a figurative meaning, like all end times prophecy does. God speaks obliquely about things that He wants to keep as mysteries. Every mystery will not be revealed until the very end.

I think the text is saying basically what was said by Our Lady of La Salette, that "Rome will lose the Faith and become the seat of the Antichrist." This is also what the word "desolation" means in the phrase "abomination of desolation." In other words, Rome will be spiritually desolate because Jesus will not be present in the false church of the Antichrist. Read Apocalypse 17 for more detail.

I believe that the word "Fatima" signifies "the Reign of Mary." This happens AFTER she crushes the head of Satan (and his minister, the Antichrist). This is the Era of Peace. It is a supernatural era, age, period.

This is at the END of our time, age, era. This new period is described as "the New Heaven and New Earth," when Jesus will "make all things new" (Apocalypse 21:5). Read the entirety of Apocalypse Chapter 21, the new "age" discussed there is not like our "age." It is a place where "death shall be no more...for the former things are passed away."

Specifically to your point, Apocalypse 21:22 says that there will be "no temple therein. For the Lord God Almighty is the temple thereof, and the Lamb." So, the text is perfectly consistent with the Apocalypse.

And finally, the location of St. Peter's original See was Antioch. So the geographical location of St. Peter's See does not have to be Rome. But, again, I think to interpret the text in such a naturalistic way is wrong.

Why is it prophecied by so many that the era of peace will be before the antichrist is what confuses me, why is the church of philedephia before laodecia, the only thing which makes sense to me is if the church of philedelphia represented the church between 1929-1958?

And finally, the location of St. Peter's original See was Antioch. So the geographical location of St. Peter's See does not have to be Rome. But, again, I think to interpret the text in such a naturalistic way is wrong.

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St. Peter went from Antioch to Rome under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost. And the idea is that he established the Church permanently in Rome, and that this is of divine institution, and it will never be moved from Rome.

Also, I posted earlier the definitions of the First Vatican Council that the Roman Pontiff is the head of the Church. How would he be the Roman pontiff if his see is moved to Fatima and taken out of Rome?

Why is it prophecied by so many that the era of peace will be before the antichrist is what confuses me, why is the church of philedephia before laodecia, the only thing which makes sense to me is if the church of philedelphia represented the church between 1929-1958?

Can you give some specific examples of prophecies (quotes please) that say that the era of peace comes BEFORE the Antichrist? Do you think Ven. Holzhauser is saying that? If so, I can explain exactly where in the Apocalypse timeline Ven. Holzhauser's prophecy of the Angelic Pope/Great Monarch fits in. Holzhauser himself explains it.

The short explanation is that Holzhauser says that the "Mighty Angel" who comes at the beginning of Apocalypse chapter 10 is the "Great Monarch." Again, that is Holzhausers interpretation of St. John's words, not mine. That scene occurs during what the Apocalypse calls the Second Woe. It is during the First Woe that the Antichrist shows up for the first time. The Antichrist is still active AFTER the scene of the Great Monarch. So it is more precise to say that the "era of peace" (ushered in but the Great Monarch and Angelic Pope) begins in the middle of the activity of the Antichrist. 

I can go into more detail with specific quotes from Holzhauser and locations in the Apocalypse if you are interested. Otherwise, I'll leave it at that.

You say "never." Did you understand what I said about the end times and the transition that takes place to a new era after "the end times?" The "end times" culminates in "the end of the world as we know it."

I agree with you that the Holy See will be located in Rome during the current era (which we are near the end of). But the Third Secret is linked to the prophecy of Daniel. Daniel and the Apocalypse explain not only how the current era will end. They also go into detail about what St. John calls "the New Heaven and New Earth," which is a mysterious new era that is the reward for the "elect" after passing through the "final trial" of the Antichrist.

And Yeti, here is St. Augustine's commentary on the transition from our current age to the New Heaven and New Earth. Again, the symbolic reference to "Rome" being destroyed and replaced by "Fatima" is the transition from our current mortality to a future immortality.

Fatima is the Marian symbol of "a great city, a new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband" [Apocalypse 21:2]. It is the fulfillment of the promise of the Reign of the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

https://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf102/npnf102.iv.XX.17.html

You say "never." Did you understand what I said about the end times and the transition that takes place to a new era after "the end times?" The "end times" culminates in "the end of the world as we know it."

I agree with you that the Holy See will be located in Rome during the current era (which we are near the end of). But the Third Secret is linked to the prophecy of Daniel. Daniel and the Apocalypse explain not only how the current era will end. They also go into detail about what St. John calls "the New Heaven and New Earth," which is a mysterious new era that is the reward for the "elect" after passing through the "final trial" of the Antichrist.

Explain Luke 18:8

If to e plain Luke 18:8 you say that Christ will return before the era of peace, that  sounds a lot like moderate chiliasm, which has the theological note of erroneous.

Don’t put quotes around the elect


predestination is a Catholic dogma

I put quotes around that word because I use it in its technical theological sense. And I agree with you that the word "elect," used in that way, pertains to the concept of "predestination." Protestants (and many Catholics) do not understand those terms properly. If someone wants to know what I mean by my use of those terms, they can read how Aquinas uses them in the following:

https://aquinas.cc/la/en/~ST.I.Q23.A4.C

Might I suggest that rather than jump to the conclusion that a person denies "a Catholic dogma," you ask the person to clarify, being specific in your question. Would that not be how you would like others to treat you? If so, then do the same to them. That would be charity.

Angelus, I think your interpretation of this text is so broad that someone could literally make it mean anything using the methods you are using. I could just as easily argue that it is a prophecy of the 2004 World Series, and that everything is a metaphor for the victory of the Red Sox that ended the Curse of the Bambino that year.

That definitely doesn't match up with the rest of the Fatima secrets. The events prophesied in the other parts of the message are clear and straightforward, and came true. There isn't anything prophesied in the first secret of Fatima, which is the vision of hell, but here's the second secret, and I'll underline the prophesies. You'll see that they are all literal:



None of this is the sort of symbolic apocalyptic message that you are trying to say the third secret contains.

Yeti, you seem to be looking for a Third Secret that will tell you "literally" what will happen in the "end times."

Each end times prophecy, Biblical or private revelation, will have some elements that are literal, mixed up with elements that are figurative. The challenge is to determine which is which. It is not a perfect science and depends more on prayer and humility than science anyway.

IMO, the true Third Secret reveals the following:

1. There will be an apostasy in the Church reaching to the highest level, the papacy.
2. There will be a false Pope leading deceived Catholics into apostasy and perdition.
3. That this false church of the false Pope will be destroyed by God.
4. That the elect, who are not deceived by the false Pope, will be rewarded with the "era of peace."
5. The "era of peace" is mysterious. The symbol of "Fatima," the "Reign of the Immaculate Heart," and the "New Heaven and New Earth" are all clues and hints given to us about this new era.
6. The book of Daniel, chapter 9 specifically, is relevant to the Third Secret message, giving us 70 years from 1959 before the prophecy is completely fulfilled.

These same concepts and clues are found in other Biblical end times prophecies. The outline of much of it can be found in 2 Thessalonians 2. But Daniel and the Apocalypse contain much more information in figurative form.

Do you deny that there will be a supernatural intervention that separates our current era from the new era? As St. Augustine explains, in our current era, the Church is a mixed society (containing both true Christians and bad). But in the coming era, the "era of peace," the Church will only contain the good Christians and these Christians will be "immortal." That is not a description of our current world. In our current world, all men are mortal. Therefore, the new era will be something completely different from what we now know. Do you deny this?

If you don't deny that the new era will be something completely different, then why do you worry about the Church's geographical headquarters? It is irrelevant.

What is relevant is the Third Secret confirms that the final, false Pope is the Antichrist. That the errors he will use to deceive people became prominent in the 1960s. And even though it will appear that all is lost, God will miraculously bring about a reversal of fortune at the end of the current era. This confirms what traditional Catholics believe. Does it not?