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Author Topic: The TIA 3rd Secret of Fatima  (Read 14746 times)

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Offline Angelus

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Re: The TIA 3rd Secret of Fatima
« Reply #75 on: March 03, 2025, 03:48:39 PM »
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  • Consider the source. Let's not forget that the head of TIA, Atila Sinke Guimarães, has never denied being a worshipper of layman (not a doctor) Mr. Plinio Márcio. He was/is slave # 11, who lay on his face before Mr. Plinio and said a public confession to this layman who they worshipped, along with worshipping Plinio's deceased mother with a litany. Nor has Atila has never denied praying to Mr. Plinio this prayer I am not the one who lives but it is My Lord ( Dr. Pliny) that lives in me. From him all graces come for me, his spirit dwells in me. Nor has Atila, head of TIA ever denied saying this mockery of the Ave Maria:
    "Hail, Luigi Plinio Elia ( official name of Doctor Pliny in Sacred Slavery ), full of love and hate, the Most Holy Virgin is with you you are blessed among the faithful, and the fruit of your love and your hate, which is the Counter-ʀɛʋօʟutιօn, is blessed. O Sacral Luigi Plinio Elia, admirable and most Catholic father of the Counter-ʀɛʋօʟutιօn and the Kingdom of Mary, pray for us lame (capen gas) and sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen "

    See this docuмent:

    The following article is taken from La Tradizione Cattolica , new series, Year IX, n. 38-1998, reproducing the deposition of the TFP affiliate Luiz Filipe de Freitas Guimaraes Abias, Curitiba, 24 August 1984.

    The statement was registered in the Public Archives (August 24, 1984) and published on March 14, 1985 by "Folha da Manha"; Campos, RJ, Brazil.

    I, the undersigned, Filipe de Freitas Guimarães Ablas, RG (General Register) 3,706,587, SP, unmarried, resident in Curitiba (Brazil), C.so Manoel Ribas, no. 418, I declare to be true that, when I belonged to the TFP, Brazilian Society for the Defense of Tradition, Family and Property, in 1967 I entered a secret society of that association, called "Sacra Slavitù", also known by its members as "Always Living ".
    The members of this secret society have made a consecration of themselves as slaves of Doctor Atila Sinke Guimarães - slave Plinio Márcio. in the same sense that St. Louis Grignion de Montfort recommended doing it to Our Lady. For this consecration as a slave to Doctor Pliny the same text established by St. Louis for the consecration to the Madonna was used, with some adaptations. We proceeded in this way because Doctor Pliny was considered to have the same spirit of the Madonna since he was one with the Immaculate and Wisdom Heart of Mary. The members of the said society prayed daily using the following prayer of the "Sacred Slavery", composed by Doctor Pliny himself:
    "Immaculate and Wisdom Heart of Mary, in this atmosphere of our days in which all are free men, drunk with freedom, I know that I have made myself your slave to be like the last of the men of which My Lord ( Dr. Pliny ) can to dispose of as a miserable object without a will of its own. In this atmosphere of our days in which everything speaks of naturalism, I know that my life is entirely supernatural. I am not the one who lives but it is My Lord ( Dr. Pliny) that lives in me. From him all graces come for me, his spirit dwells in me, and I can do, in this union as a slave, all that he himself can. In this climate of our days, without greatness, without horizons, of optimism and mediocrity, I know that our age will bring us grandiose events, with grandiose horizons in which I will have to live as a hero the same greatness of My Lord. Looking within myself and seeing so much smallness, I know that faith in all that I have just said will give me a participation in the very greatness of My Lord ( Doctor Pliny ), and will make myself a perfect Apostle of the end times. , according to the prophetic prayer of St. Louis Grignion de Montfort. In all this I believe, but, oh my Lord (Doctor Pliny), help my unbelief ".
    A parody of the Hail Mary towards him (the Doctor) was also recited as a prayer , which incorporated the prophecies of St. Louis, St. Elijah and himself:
    "Hail, Luigi Plinio Elia ( official name of Doctor Pliny in Sacred Slavery ), full of love and hate, the Most Holy Virgin is with you you are blessed among the faithful, and the fruit of your love and your hate, which is the Counter-ʀɛʋօʟutιօn, is blessed. O Sacral Luigi Plinio Elia, admirable and most Catholic father of the Counter-ʀɛʋօʟutιօn and the Kingdom of Mary, pray for us lame (capen gas) and sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen ".
    The rosary was also recited using this Hail Mary. The meetings also began with the same Hail Mary, the aforementioned prayer of the Sacred Slavery and with the ejaculations: " Hail, Luigi Plinio Elia, admirable and most Catholic father of the Counter-ʀɛʋօʟutιօn and of the Kingdom of Mary! Ave, Luigi Plinio Elia, most faithful slave of Immaculate and Wisdom Heart of Mary! "There were also Litanies for him, the Doctor, and it was said that they had been composed by Marcos Ribeiro Dantas (slave Pliny Paul).
    In one of these ejaculations to Doctor Pliny it was said: " Precursor of Elijah, pray for us! "
     
    Doctor Pliny also gave the blessing to his slaves. Sometimes, when they received it, they would lie on the ground with their faces turned upwards and then Doctor Pliny placed his right foot on their face and gave the blessing saying: "Benedictio Matris et Mediatricis descendat super vos et maneat semper ".
    Doctor Pliny's slaves used to confess to him, telling him their shortcomings and even their sins. After the accusation, if the slave asked him for a penance, Doctor Pliny had the habit of giving three slaps on the face of the slave. He later gave the blessing.
    The entry into the "Always Living" took place, through a ceremony that lasted a few hours, in the building on Via Alagoas, on the second floor of the house, and sometimes in other places.
    Doctor Pliny was seated in a small throne with the habit and cloak of the Carmelite Third Order. The assistants used the dress without the cloak. The person who was about to be introduced into the said society stretched out as if dead, prostrated himself on the ground in front of Doctor Pliny. At this point, from Doctor Pliny, he received the order to get up for a new life and he (the Doctor Ed.), Said to him: " Exsurge ". This meant that the person had died and a new man was born, a slave of the prophet, an Apostle of the end times.
    The person then fulfilled his consecration as a slave to Doctor Pliny and gave him all his being and his material and spiritual goods. This was done by handing him symbolic objects. Doctor Pliny acquired an absolute right over the slave as in Roman law, except for the right of life and death. This is why they call him " Dominus Plinius ".
     
    The ceremony continued to reach the kiss of the feet and hands of the prophet (Doctor Pliny) by the slave. Then, Doctor Pliny left the throne and made his new slave sit there, since he was now a new Pliny. Doctor Pliny kissed the feet and hands of his new slave. Then, as a result of a transforming union that took place between them, one lived in the other. The slave was a new Pliny. For this reason, he adopted the name of Pliny, composing it with another of a patron and a title of Our Lady. For example, I chose that of Pliny Bernardo Dimas Longinos of Our Lady, Holy Queen of the Apostles of the last times. I was known as Plinio Dimas. The existence of "Sacred Slavery" could not be communicated to the other members of the TFP,
    The first twelve slaves were:
    1) Caio Vidigal Xavier da Silveira - slave Mário Pliny. 2) Eduardo Barros Brotero - Pliny Eduardo slave. 3) Luiz Nazareno d'Assunpção Filho - slave Pliny Luiz. 4) João Scognamiglio Clà Dias - slave Pliny Fernando. 5) Humberto Braccese - slave Plinio Cirineu. 6) Fernando Siqueira - Bernardo slave. 7) Carlos Espírito Hofmeister Poli -slave Plinio José. 8) Marcos Ribeiro Dantes - Pliny Paulo slave. 9) Mário Navarro da Costa - slave Pliny Elias. 10) Dom Bertrand de Orleans and Bragança - slave Plinio Miguel. 11) Atila Sinke Guimarães - slave Plinio Márcio. 12) Cosme Beccar Varella Hijo-slave Plinio Lázaro.
    As time passed, other people entered the "Always Living". They are:
    13) Pliny Vidigal Xavier da Silveira - slave Pliny Elizeu. 14) Paulo Corrêa de Brito Filho - slave Pliny Jeremias. 15) Luiz Filipe Ablas - slave Pliny Dimas. 16) "X" - slave Plinio Inácio. 17) Dom Luiz de Orleans and Bragança - slave Plinio da Cruz. 18) Antônio Marcelino Pereira de Almeida - slave Pliny Francisco. 19) Edson Neves da Silva - slave Pliny Batista. 20) Fernando Antunes Aldunate - slave Pliny Longinos. 21) Leo Nino Doscolo Daniele - slave Plinio Tobias. 22) Fernando Furquin de Almeida Filho - slave Pliny Amen. 23) Martim Afonso Xavier da Silveira Jr. - slave Plinio Pedro. 24) Sergio Bidueira - slave Pliny Hildebrando. 25) José Lúcio de Araújo Correia - slave Plinio Ezquiel. 26) Julio Ubeold - slave Pliny Tomaz. 27) Fernado Teles - slave Plinio Leofredo. 28) Roberto Guerreiro - slave Pliny Agostinho. 29) Afonso Becar Verella - slave Plinio Ambrósio. 30) Miguel Becar Verella - Pliny Domingos slave. 31) Carlos Viano - slave Plinio Godofredo. 32) The Argentine Escurra - slave Pliny Leon. 33) Carlos Antunez Aldunate - slave Plinio Emanuel. 34) Jaime Antunez Aldunate - slave Plinio Gregório. 35) Gonzalo Larrain - slave Plinio Caetano. 36) Patricio Larrain - Pliny João slave. 37) Patrício Amunategui - slave Pliny Santiago. 38) Casté - slave Pliny Joaquim. 39) Pedro Paulo Figueiredo - slave Plinio Jacó '. 40) Carlos Alberto Soares Correia - slave Plinio Atenásio. 41) Aloisio Torres - slave Pliny Macabeu. 42) Roberto Esper Kalás - slave Plinio Bento. 43) Paulo Roberto Rosa - Pliny Tiago slave. 44) Paulo Cesar Nascimento - slave Pliny Henoc. 45) Lúcio Montes - slave Plinio Estevão. 46) "Y" - slave Pliny Afonso. 47) João Carlos Leal da Costa - slave Plinio Matatias. 48) Francisco Xavier Tosto - slave Pliny Isaias. 49) José Antônio Tosto - slave Plinio Sebastian. 50) "Z" - slave Pliny Clóvis. 51) Guerreiro Dantas - slave Plinio Davi. 52) Rivoir - slave Pliny Hermenegildo. 53) Alejandro Bravo - slave Pliny Samuel. 54) Carlos Ybarguren - slave Pliny Antonio. 55) Nelso Fragelli - slave Plinio Tomé. 56) Fernado Larrain - Pliny slave. 52) Rivoir - slave Pliny Hermenegildo. 53) Alejandro Bravo - slave Pliny Samuel. 54) Carlos Ybarguren - slave Pliny Antonio. 55) Nelso Fragelli - slave Plinio Tomé. 56) Fernado Larrain - Pliny slave. 52) Rivoir - slave Pliny Hermenegildo. 53) Alejandro Bravo - slave Pliny Samuel. 54) Carlos Ybarguren - slave Pliny Antonio. 55) Nelso Fragelli - slave Plinio Tomé. 56) Fernado Larrain - Pliny slave.
    There were others who, at the time, were not received in the "Always Living", but were equally slaves of Doctor Plinio: Antonio Candido Lara Ducca - Ducca slave and Carlos Eduardo Schafer - Schafer slave.
    Speaking of his own power and his slaves, Doctor Pliny asked: " What is the power of the Pope compared to all this? "
     
    It was said among the slaves that the "Secret of Mary", of which St. Louis Grignion de Montfort speaks is probably the institution of the "Sacred Slavery" towards Doctor Pliny.
    Doctor Pliny was then designated with the nickname "Maria", since Mary's slave was Pliny's slave.
    Slaves used to ask for graces, kneeling before Doctor Pliny. For example, Cosme Beccar Varella Hijo, in his consecration, asked "My Lord" for the grace of becoming a widower.
    I would also like to declare that I myself consecrated myself as the son of Donna Lucilia (mother of Doctor Pliny), kneeling in her tomb, in the presence of Doctor Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira and his personal guards.
     

    Curitiba, August 24, 1984
    Luiz Filipe de Freitas Guimaraes Abias
     

    Witnesses to the deposition:
    Orlando Fedeli 1.433.401, RG
    Giulio Folena 2.481.149, RG.
    Cartorio Ramos, Second Civil Registration Office, Titles and Docuмents, Via Mal. Floriano Peixoto, 986 - Tel. 224-2444.
    Declaration presented today. Drawn up and recorded on microfilm (no. 544948). Archive number: 330009.

    The articles originally appearing on this site may be reproduced freely,
     both in electronic and paper format, provided that
     nothing is changed, that the source is specified - the Kelebek website http://www.kelebekler.com -
     and that also publish this clarification.
     For articles taken from other sources, consult the respective sites or authors

    Cera,

    The TIA people were initially skeptical that the facsimile they received was true. They thought it might be an April Fools joke, as you can see in the original post from 2010. After a flurry of posts about it in 2010, they dropped it.
    https://traditioninaction.org/Questions/B352_Secret.html

    Only in 2017 (7 years later) did the TIA people start to believe it might be true. This was after a third-party from Spain contracted with a renowned handwriting expert in Spain. A book was published in Spain about it. That is when the TIA started writing about it again.
    https://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/g32ht_Analyst.htm

    So, although the TIA guy, gave his opinion on "de-scrambling" the message, the original message did not come from the TIA and the TIA did not originally accept it as authentic.

    The handwriting analysis has proven that the text in it was written by Sr. Lucia. She is the source. However, there does appear to have been some tampering with the arrangement of the sentences on the page using photoshop (or something like it).

    Regardless, the number of lines match the number of lines the were reported by people known to have read the Third Secret. The general concepts in the text are from Sr. Lucia. And it contains the words of the authentic Third Secret. The main concepts in the message were reported by Cardinals many years before. Cardinal Ciappi said:

    In a personal communication to a Professor Baumgartner in Salzburg, Cardinal Ciappi revealed the following: "In the Third Secret it is foretold, among other things, that the great apostasy in the Church will begin at the top."

    That is the content of the Third Secret text that sent to the TIA in 2010. It is not talking about earthquakes and tidal waves. It is talking about an antipope who becomes the Son of Perdition, which is exactly what 2 Thessalonians 2 says is the infallible sign of the time just before "the Day of the Lord."

    Offline Angelus

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    Re: The TIA 3rd Secret of Fatima
    « Reply #76 on: March 03, 2025, 03:57:38 PM »
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  • Yes, and I believe June 13, 1929.  It was 100 years to the day with the requested consecration of France to the Sacred Heart of Jesus that the King of France was deposed.  Our Lord likened the delay for the consecration of Russia to Our Lady's Immaculate Heart to that same delay ... so I fully expect something terrible to begin unfolding on June 13, 2029.

    Leo XIII's 75 years (from the vision) I believe started in 1958, with the Anti-Pope Roncalli kicking off the Conciliar Revolution.  That would finish in 2033.

    So ... something kicks off on June 13, 2029 that ultimately ends with the Triumph of the Church 3.5 or so years later.  That also coincides almost perfectly with exactly 2000 years after the Public Ministry of Our Lord, where His Public Ministry would have begun somewhere in A.D. 29 and ended with His Crucifixion and Resurrection in A.D. 33.

    We are very close. Your timeline is plausible. I think all of the prophecies will be fulfilled before the end of 2028. The reason is my interpretation of the Daniel 9 prophecy and others. Of course, I may be mistaken. 

    I'd be happy to discuss it more in detail, if you are interested. But most of what I would say, I have said before on Cathinfo. 


    Offline ThatBritPapist

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    Re: The TIA 3rd Secret of Fatima
    « Reply #77 on: March 04, 2025, 06:10:07 PM »
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  • Are you still at this nonsense?  NOBODY "worships" Plinio.  This has been debunked 100 times and in a 100 different ways, but you persist in it, to the point that it cannot be excused as anything other than willful slander.

    Tbh do not take this the wrong way Ladislaus but it is common knowledge to the people of Brazil forexample of the Montfort Association that the TIA are dodgy and the TFP are a Cult. I was heavily involved in the TFP Scene when I was 14 and I 100 percent can say I have seen it first hand worshipping Plinio. Regarding what Cera said, it's true as even the TIA website directly states Átila admits that Caio Vidigal Xavier da Silveira consecrated himself as slave to Dr. Plínio in 1961 and that
    Átila Sinke Guimarães was the secretary of the MNF (Manifest)

    Atila put his own words on his own website.

    https://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/Internet_Files/F142_Defense_Eng.pdf


    Scroll down to p 37

    "I did not know a better image of God than my relationship with Dr. Plinio. . . (nothing) gave me anything comparable (to the) . . . sense of the divine that my relationship with Dr. Plinio provided.


    . . .  The great Moses with his burning bush on the top of Sinai does not make me jealous. For if he were there with God for 40 days, I have been with Dr. Plinio for 33 years."


    If I reading this thread won't convince you hope the recording of one of the slave processions I am linking below.





    Some People call me a Radical Traditionalist but others call me Shizo.....Oh well :trollface:

    Offline WorldsAway

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    Re: The TIA 3rd Secret of Fatima
    « Reply #78 on: March 04, 2025, 06:53:22 PM »
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  • If I reading this thread won't convince you hope the recording of one of the slave processions I am linking below.

    That is insane..if you do not mind giving out the info, where did that video come from?
    If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you [John 15:108

    Offline ThatBritPapist

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    Re: The TIA 3rd Secret of Fatima
    « Reply #79 on: March 04, 2025, 07:15:24 PM »
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  • That is insane..if you do not mind giving out the info, where did that video come from?
    I've been investigating and monitoring the TFP  for a few years now, and over time, I’ve gathered a significant amount of evidence exposing their real nature—beyond the video I have presented . Recently, I obtained the Video via a Brazilian link . This is just another piece of the puzzle, reinforcing everything I’ve come to understand about them: that behind the grand worship and choreographed public displays, there’s something deeply unsettling about this movement.

    I initially started looking into them because, growing up, their presence in neo-conservative Catholic circles was undeniable. Their good stance on cultural and moral issues—especially their anti-abortion rallies—was gaining traction, and suddenly, everyone I knew seemed to be looking up to them. Their influence in America’s Catholicism was booming, and for young men in particular, they became an ideal to aspire to. The allure was obvious: the discipline, the sense of tradition, the unapologetic defiance against modernism. To many of us, they represented a form of Catholic militancy that felt necessary in an increasingly secular world.

    However doing research it is obvious that the red flags became impossible to ignore. The deeper you dig, the more you realize that TFP isn’t just another right-wing Catholic group trying to defend the deposit of the faith—it’s a movement that thrives on manipulation, exclusivity, and cult dynamics. They exploit the natural masculine desire for order, hierarchy, and meaning, repackaging it into a rigid aesthetics that hides their extreme and questionable practices.

    And that’s the real tragedy here. As men, we fall into their traps because on the surface, they offer everything we crave: a structured system , a clear mission, and a sense of belonging in a chaotic world. Dressing sharply, carrying banners, and presenting yourself as a warrior against modernism—on the surface, it all seems noble. But when you strip away the façade, what’s left is an organization built on control and a disturbing detachment from Plinio.

    The more I’ve uncovered, the more I see how dangerous their influence truly is. And with the video evidence, I hope it becomes even clearer to others that the TFP isn’t a group to admire—it’s like fαℓѕє fℓαg movement through and through.

    Some People call me a Radical Traditionalist but others call me Shizo.....Oh well :trollface:


    Offline Yeti

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    Re: The TIA 3rd Secret of Fatima
    « Reply #80 on: March 04, 2025, 08:36:28 PM »
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  • Okay, but this conversation is not about the TFP; it's about the text that Guimaraes posted on his website. Maybe you can open a different thread about the TFP.

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: The TIA 3rd Secret of Fatima
    « Reply #81 on: March 04, 2025, 09:44:36 PM »
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  • Yes, BritPapist, what you write is important.  Please start a new thread and add specifics.  Thank you.

    Online LakeEnjoyer

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    Re: The TIA 3rd Secret of Fatima
    « Reply #82 on: March 05, 2025, 09:42:10 AM »
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  • Tbh do not take this the wrong way Ladislaus but it is common knowledge to the people of Brazil forexample of the Montfort Association that the TIA are dodgy and the TFP are a Cult. I was heavily involved in the TFP Scene when I was 14 and I 100 percent can say I have seen it first hand worshipping Plinio. 



    I didn't realise TFP had any presence at all in Britain?


    Offline Yeti

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    Re: The TIA 3rd Secret of Fatima
    « Reply #83 on: March 06, 2025, 04:38:50 PM »
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  • The handwriting analysis has proven that the text in it was written by Sr. Lucia.
    .

    Okay, I looked up the article and read what the expert actually wrote in her statement. It doesn't say this exactly.

    Here's what it says:

    Quote
    After providing more samples of the techniques applied in the study, the graphologist concludes:

    "In view of the above findings, it can be determined that, after a thorough analysis, there are qualitative and quantitative elements that the docuмent in question, referred to here as the Unrevealed Third Part of the Secret of Fatima, was made by the same hand as that of the unquestioned docuмents corresponding to the First and Second Parts of the Secret of Fatima, written in fact by Sr. Lucia dos Santo in her Third Memoir of August 31, 1941.

    So, the expert says there are elements that the docuмent was written by Sr. Lucy.

    I wonder if this is a translation issue, but it sounds to me like she is saying there is evidence, or reason to believe, or something similar, that it's authentic. That's a long ways from saying it was certainly written by Sr. Lucy.

    Offline Angelus

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    Re: The TIA 3rd Secret of Fatima
    « Reply #84 on: March 06, 2025, 04:48:30 PM »
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  • .

    Okay, I looked up the article and read what the expert actually wrote in her statement. It doesn't say this exactly.

    Here's what it says:

    So, the expert says there are elements that the docuмent was written by Sr. Lucy.

    I wonder if this is a translation issue, but it sounds to me like she is saying there is evidence, or reason to believe, or something similar, that it's authentic. That's a long ways from saying it was certainly written by Sr. Lucy.

    She said very plainly "it can be determined that...the docuмent in question...was made by the same hand..."

    She is saying that any expert who follows the methods that she has used and explained in her analysis "can determine" the same thing that she has "determined."

    Offline Yeti

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    Re: The TIA 3rd Secret of Fatima
    « Reply #85 on: March 06, 2025, 04:54:29 PM »
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  • She said very plainly "it can be determined that...the docuмent in question...was made by the same hand..."

    She is saying that any expert who follows the methods that she has used and explained in her analysis "can determine" the same thing that she has "determined."
    .

    I think what can be determined is that those element are there, i.e. elements that they were made by the same hand.

    Here's the sentence again:

    Quote
    it can be determined that, after a thorough analysis, there are qualitative and quantitative elements that the docuмent in question, referred to here as the Unrevealed Third Part of the Secret of Fatima, was made by the same hand


    So, the sentence isn't "It can be determined the docuмent was made by the same hand," but rather "It can be determined that there are ... elements that ... etc."

    Now, as far as what it means that there are elements that the docuмents were made by the same hand, I'm not quite sure, and I wish we had the original Spanish so we could fix the translation a bit maybe, but that's what it says.


    Offline Angelus

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    Re: The TIA 3rd Secret of Fatima
    « Reply #86 on: March 06, 2025, 05:03:37 PM »
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  • .

    I think what can be determined is that those element are there, i.e. elements that they were made by the same hand.

    Here's the sentence again:


    So, the sentence isn't "It can be determined the docuмent was made by the same hand," but rather "It can be determined that there are ... elements that ... etc."

    Now, as far as what it means that there are elements that the docuмents were made by the same hand, I'm not quite sure, and I wish we had the original Spanish so we could fix the translation a bit maybe, but that's what it says.

    This interview with the expert might help you:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20170506043836/ttps://www.esdiario.com/elsemanaldigital/199560914/Nada-me-ha-condicionado-ni-a-favor-ni-en-contra.html

    (Using Google Translate)

    Q: Why are you so sure that the docuмent of the unrevealed Third Secret of Fatima was written, like the first two secrets, by the same hand of Sister Lucia?

    A: So sure? I only know that my work is done with rigor, with all the knowledge put at the service of expertise. I think it is impossible to write identical two letters, since we have life, movement, and this is what gives the writing of the same person certain differences in the same letter. We also have personal traits that come out of our unconscious part, and that it is impossible for another author other than the same to reproduce them. Speed is very important, because it is very difficult to imitate, inclination, cohesion... These are traits that a counterfeiter cannot maintain in more than six lines in a row, because the unconscious part betrays and the movement of the hand obeys the brain, not our intentions. This is a clear case, that of the docuмent we have studied, in which all these factors are positive, never with enough differences to doubt their authenticity.



    Offline Yeti

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    Re: The TIA 3rd Secret of Fatima
    « Reply #87 on: March 06, 2025, 05:16:09 PM »
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  • This interview with the expert might help you:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20170506043836/ttps://www.esdiario.com/elsemanaldigital/199560914/Nada-me-ha-condicionado-ni-a-favor-ni-en-contra.html

    (Using Google Translate)

    Q: Why are you so sure that the docuмent of the unrevealed Third Secret of Fatima was written, like the first two secrets, by the same hand of Sister Lucia?

    A: So sure? I only know that my work is done with rigor, with all the knowledge put at the service of expertise. I think it is impossible to write identical two letters, since we have life, movement, and this is what gives the writing of the same person certain differences in the same letter. We also have personal traits that come out of our unconscious part, and that it is impossible for another author other than the same to reproduce them. Speed is very important, because it is very difficult to imitate, inclination, cohesion... These are traits that a counterfeiter cannot maintain in more than six lines in a row, because the unconscious part betrays and the movement of the hand obeys the brain, not our intentions. This is a clear case, that of the docuмent we have studied, in which all these factors are positive, never with enough differences to doubt their authenticity.
    .

    Oh, thank you, Angelus. This is very interesting. I wonder why they didn't put this on the TIA website.

    Was there anything else of interest in the interview?

    Offline Angelus

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    Re: The TIA 3rd Secret of Fatima
    « Reply #88 on: March 06, 2025, 05:31:32 PM »
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  • .

    Oh, thank you, Angelus. This is very interesting. I wonder why they didn't put this on the TIA website.

    Was there anything else of interest in the interview?

    Yes, I would recommend reading the whole thing. 

    Offline Yeti

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    Re: The TIA 3rd Secret of Fatima
    « Reply #89 on: March 07, 2025, 04:46:14 PM »
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  • I think it goes against the Faith to say the primacy of the Church can be moved to a different city besides Rome.

    There are numerous definitions involving this, but the First Vatican Council made several decrees that it is the Roman Pontiff who is the head of the Church. This would seem to exclude the bishop of Fatima from ever being the head of the Church.

    Here's a quote:


    Quote
    Chapter 2. On the permanence of the primacy of blessed Peter in the Roman pontiffs
    • That which our lord Jesus Christ, the prince of shepherds and great shepherd of the sheep, established in the blessed apostle Peter, for the continual salvation and permanent benefit of the church, must of necessity remain for ever, by Christ’s authority, in the church which, founded as it is upon a rock, will stand firm until the end of time [45] .
    • For no one can be in doubt, indeed it was known in every age that the holy and most blessed Peter, prince and head of the apostles, the pillar of faith and the foundation of the catholic church, received the keys of the kingdom from our lord Jesus Christ, the saviour and redeemer of the human race, and that to this day and for ever he lives and presides and exercises judgment in his successors the bishops of the holy Roman see, which he founded and consecrated with his blood [46] .
    • Therefore whoever succeeds to the chair of Peter obtains by the institution of Christ himself, the primacy of Peter over the whole church. So what the truth has ordained stands firm, and blessed Peter perseveres in the rock-like strength he was granted, and does not abandon that guidance of the church which he once received [47] .
    • For this reason it has always been necessary for every church–that is to say the faithful throughout the world–to be in agreement with the Roman church because of its more effective leadership. In consequence of being joined, as members to head, with that see, from which the rights of sacred communion flow to all, they will grow together into the structure of a single body [48] .
    • Therefore,
      • if anyone says that
        • it is not by the institution of Christ the lord himself (that is to say, by divine law) that blessed Peter should have perpetual successors in the primacy over the whole church; or that
        • the Roman pontiff is not the successor of blessed Peter in this primacy:
        let him be anathema.