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Author Topic: The TIA 3rd Secret of Fatima  (Read 14749 times)

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Offline Yeti

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Re: The TIA 3rd Secret of Fatima
« Reply #60 on: March 01, 2025, 08:36:34 PM »
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  • Thank you for resurrecting this thread, Angelus. I remember this thread from a couple of years ago as something very interesting. I hope your bringing this back will generate new discussion, but I have concluded that I think this "third secret" is probably another forgery as well, for numerous reasons. I'll try to dig up a couple of interesting analyses of it on the internet if I get the time.

    Offline Yeti

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    Re: The TIA 3rd Secret of Fatima
    « Reply #61 on: March 01, 2025, 08:43:29 PM »
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  • Offline Angelus

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    Re: The TIA 3rd Secret of Fatima
    « Reply #62 on: March 01, 2025, 10:23:41 PM »
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  • Chojnowski has a lot of plausible arguments against the authenticity of this text.

    Hi Yeti,

    Chojnowski admits he never submitted it to his handwriting experts for analysis. But a renowned handwriting expert in Spain did do the analysis and a book has been published with the details:

    https://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/g32ht_Analyst.htm

    So there is no doubt that the handwriting is Sr. Lucia's. The only questions revolve around the tampering with the handwritten words on the page. The TIA guy gives his opinion on how to "descramble" it. But all of the words on the page are Sr. Lucia's. Moving sentences from one part of the page to another part of the page does not change the meaning in any substantial way.

    I suspect that whoever shared the Third Secret was under a vow to not share it. So they scrambled the message up before sharing it. That way they could say that they did not violate their vow.

    ------

    Chojnowski presents his reasons for why he did not pay for his own handwriting analysis. Here is what he said (my comments in bold):

    1) I have only received one donation to Sister Lucy Truth from someone interested in the TIA Third Secret. The donation was a tax-deductible donation to "Sister Lucy Truth" for $200. When discussing the cost of the analysis and of writing up the results for this docuмent, I found out that the cost was going to be $500. The docuмent itself, with its obvious problems, did not warrant the expenditure of the extra money when we have so little to spend. Every dime donated to "Sister Lucy Truth" goes to either the investigations themselves, maintaining the website, or paying the fees to the bank for upkeep of the various accounts.

    Response: Says he didn't have enough money. Fine. But instead of leaving it at that. He ignores the findings of someone who did have the money. Weird.

    2) The docuмent itself had a very questionable origin, we discovered this when we had 3 different people at Sister Lucy Truth actually look at the docuмent, check it using computer programs, and look up the scriptural references that are made in the docuмent. a) computer analysis seems to show that many of the words of the text were cut and pasted on to it. b) this docuмent has an unknown origin --- coming from "someone in Portugal" and being advertised, other than on TIA, on a website whose address is "Our Lady is God." c) the "letter" is from a fax of a copy of the letter.

    Response: He says the docuмent has a "questionable origin." Which is precisely why he should have paid for a handwriting analysis to prove that the ultimate "origin" is Sr. Lucia. Someone else did what he should have done. It matters not who handled the message. It matters who wrote the message.


    3) The date is truly odd. If you turn over the letter the year appears as 666. When has a year ever been written with 3 numbers? Also it is dated April 1st, which seems to indicate that it could very well be an "April fools" joke meant to discredit those who are genuinely interested in the actual content of the Third Secret.

    Response: He says the docuмent has an "odd" date. Again, this is probably just the result of the scrambling of the original text by the person who decided to make it public. The important thing is Sr. Lucia wrote every word of it by her own hand. This is scientifically proven now.

    4) The thumb mark, supposedly meant to prove that this is Sister Lucy's writing, was smudged. Why have a thumb print when it is smudged? How would that prove anything? Sister Lucy NEVER used a thumb print in any of her other authentic writings.

    Response: He says it has a "smudged" thumbprint. Does this even deserve a response? This is digging, no? Again, a scientific analysis has already proven the text was written by Sr. Lucia.

    5) The biblical references, supposedly given by Our Lady in this Secret, are clearly and traditionally meant to refer to Christ and not to the Church or to the Church in our time.

    Response: He is wrong. The reference the Daniel, chapter 9, is the verse that provides the timeframe when the end times "abomination of desolation" will occur. Jesus himself references this verse in Matthew 24 when discussing the end times. The same "abomination of desolation" is discussed in Apocalypse 17. The Harlot of Babylon is in a desert (a desolate place) and on her forehead a name was written: "A mystery; Babylon the great, the mother of the fornications, and the abominations of the earth." This is the description of the false worship in the Counterfeit Church of the Beast, aka the Antichrist. And the 70 "weeks" of Daniel refers to 70 years. The word for "weeks" in Hebrew is "shavuim." That word is the plural of the word "Shavuot," which is the name of the "Feast of Weeks" that occurs one time per year in the Hebrew calendar. We call it Pentecost. The 70 years starts in 1959, which was the year that John XXIII announced the Vatican II council. Our Lady ordered that the Third Secret be announced "after Pius XII and before 1960."

    6) The text is heretical since it clearly indicates that the origin of authority in the Church shall be transferred from Rome to Fatima. Rome is the Apostolic See of Peter and it would be heretical to say that that can be transferred to any other place. The pope could live in another place, as has been the case, but he is pope because he is bishop of Rome.

    Response: This is a misunderstanding of how Salvation History works. The "end times" culminate in the "consummation of the age." This consummation results in the destruction of the current Heaven and Earth and the beginning of the New Heaven and New Earth (Apocalypse 21). So the Third Secret is speaking symbolically about this event. It is identical to the concept of the future "Reign of Mary." This is a supernatural mystery.

    7) The "cathedral of Rome" is clearly misidentified as St. Peter's rather than St. John Lateran --- which is the true cathedral church of Rome. Our Lady would not misidentify this church in such a way.

    Response: There is no misidentification. Chojnowski is clearly wrong. Look at the text. The only reference to St. Peter in the docuмent is this: "the cornerstone of Peter's tomb." It says nothing about St. Peter's being the Cathedral of Rome. Again, check it yourself. And then ask yourself if you should trust Chojnowski's analysis on this topic. Very sloppy.


    8) By a description of the "church" entered into by the "pope of the evil eyes" which exactly describes the new church built at Fatima, along with mentioning the name of John Paul II, I think those who produced this docuмent were creating foresight from hindsight.

    Response: This is his opinion. Everybody's got one. In no way does it invalidate the fact that Sr. Lucia wrote the docuмent in her own hand.

    9) Also, just as an aside, I have never received one bit of help or cooperation from any one at Tradition in Action, even though I have asked for it.

    Response: What???? Who cares? We have Sr. Lucia's handwriting confirmed by experts and this guy is airing his dirty laundry.

    10) After looking at this text intensely over the course of days, I can tell you that I believe that it is a joke, meant to discredit those who are interested in finding out the full message of the Third Secret and who have doubts about the completeness of what was released by the Vatican in 2000.

    Response: It is Sr. Lucia's handwriting. Confirmed. Not a joke.



    Offline Yeti

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    Re: The TIA 3rd Secret of Fatima
    « Reply #63 on: March 02, 2025, 08:36:38 AM »
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  • I really enjoyed this fascinating discussion when we had it two years ago. I'll have to read over this thread again when I have a chance.

    I agree that the handwriting match with Sr. Lucy is very interesting. From what I could find out on the internet, it seems like it's possible for a forger to copy handwriting well enough to fool a handwriting expert if he is extremely skilled. So there are two possibilities here: 1) Sr. Lucy wrote it, or 2) an extremely skilled forger wrote it.

    I think Guimaraes had a theory that the Vatican hired an extremely skilled forger to produce this docuмent. I forget how he explained the motive for that; it was a bit complex.

    In any case, I think that's more likely than that this text is authentic.

    Offline Angelus

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    Re: The TIA 3rd Secret of Fatima
    « Reply #64 on: March 02, 2025, 01:13:03 PM »
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  • I really enjoyed this fascinating discussion when we had it two years ago. I'll have to read over this thread again when I have a chance.

    I agree that the handwriting match with Sr. Lucy is very interesting. From what I could find out on the internet, it seems like it's possible for a forger to copy handwriting well enough to fool a handwriting expert if he is extremely skilled. So there are two possibilities here: 1) Sr. Lucy wrote it, or 2) an extremely skilled forger wrote it.

    I think Guimaraes had a theory that the Vatican hired an extremely skilled forger to produce this docuмent. I forget how he explained the motive for that; it was a bit complex.

    In any case, I think that's more likely than that this text is authentic.

    It is my understanding, from my own limited research into it, that it is considered impossible to forge more than a few words of text. To forge an entire page of text is not thought to be realistic.

    But, in my opinion, the text perfectly conforms to the things that readers of the Third Secret (Cardinals and Sr. Lucia herself, for example) said were the primary subjects:

    1. That there will be an "the apostasy in the Church," at the highest levels, which will cause many Catholic souls to fall into Hell.

    2. That "in Portugal the dogma of the Faith would be preserved," which understood figuratively suggests that while the Counterfeit Church will defect, the faithful remnant will be preserved under the mantle of Our Lady if they follow her instructions given to Sr. Lucia at Fatima: do penance, pray the Rosary, receive the Eucharist, and First Saturday devotions. This faithful remnant, doing these things, will be "preserved" until Jesus returns.


    Offline Yeti

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    Re: The TIA 3rd Secret of Fatima
    « Reply #65 on: March 02, 2025, 10:06:05 PM »
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  • I hadn't really thought about this text all that much since we hashed all this out a year and a half ago, and I was thinking about it again today after such a long time.

    One thing that comes to mind is that there is practically nothing in this text that would be of any use or even relevance to anyone trying to survive the Vatican 2 crisis in the Church. Imagine you could see the future and you wanted to compose a couple-hundred-word statement to help people get through it with their faith intact. You would probably not come up with anything even remotely resembling this text.

    Let's see. It mentions nothing about a council or a new order of Mass. It does mention an evil pope, but in such vague, bizarre terms that it is nearly useless. All it says is that he has a "gaze of evil". What in the world does that even mean? How would anyone recognize this? Then it says he goes into an ugly church. That's it? What good is that? And Our Lady (supposedly) then has the gall to say "You saw the apostasy in the Church" after not having shown anyone anything of such a nature at all? All they saw was a pope with a "gaze of evil" who goes into a church that looks like a concrete bunker. This is not what apostasy in the Church looks like.

    The second half of the message is even more absurd, i.e. the part about Fatima, and how the headquarters of the Church will be moved from Rome to Fatima, and Rome will be destroyed. What on earth would be the point of moving the geographic location of the Church's capital, anyway? What problem is that going to solve?

    But then it talks about how the tomb of St. Peter has to be moved to Fatima? Really? Remember, again, that this is a couple-hundred-word message to help souls in the worst crisis the Church has ever seen. And Our Lady is worried about moving the tomb of St. Peter to some other location? If a true pope took office today, the idea of moving St. Peter's tomb to another country would probably not make the top 3,000 items on his to-do list, assuming it made it at all, which obviously it wouldn't.

    It is telling that a significant amount of the text, about a third of it, is about how Rome must be transferred to Fatima. Guimaraes thought maybe that points to someone in Fatima being behind the forgery, as it exalts Fatima as the most important place in the world. And it says that the "cathedral of Rome" must be destroyed. (It's also a little weird that Our Lady would call for a church to be destroyed anyway, now that I think about it.) But the cathedral of Rome is not the same place as St. Peter's tomb anyway (okay, not that it says it is, but it's kind of implied). The cathedral of Rome is St. John Lateran's basilica; whereas St. Peter is buried at St. Peter's Basilica.

    Last of all we have the (apparently idle, since it didn't happen) threat that Rome would be destroyed within a certain deadline after an unspecified "order" is published. This is where it truly gets weird. A deadline for an enormous divine punishment is specified, and we can't even figure out what the deadline actually is. It says Rome will be destroyed if it doesn't repent within "69 weeks" of the publishing of some order, and we can't even figure out if that means "69 weeks", "69 years", or "69 7-year periods". All three theories have pros and cons, and none of them really fits entirely. How could God give a deadline that no one can even figure out when it is, especially for a chastisement like that? When Jonas was sent by God to Nineve with a deadline for the Ninevites, the deadline was clear: it was 40 days for them to repent, or the city would be destroyed. And the Ninevites understood when the deadline was, and so did Jonas. There was no question about what it meant. But it would be absurd if God had destroyed the city a few days later and then said, "When I said '40 days', I really meant '40 hours', and you guys just ran out of time." That would be completely unjust, and God would never do such a thing. So if God were to give a warning that included a threat and a deadline for the threat to take effect, there would be no question when the deadline was.

    I'll dig up a bit more information on forgeries and whether they can fool handwriting experts, since that seems to be your main argument at the moment, but this is what I have for now.

    Offline Angelus

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    Re: The TIA 3rd Secret of Fatima
    « Reply #66 on: March 03, 2025, 08:04:13 AM »
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  • I hadn't really thought about this text all that much since we hashed all this out a year and a half ago, and I was thinking about it again today after such a long time.

    One thing that comes to mind is that there is practically nothing in this text that would be of any use or even relevance to anyone trying to survive the Vatican 2 crisis in the Church. Imagine you could see the future and you wanted to compose a couple-hundred-word statement to help people get through it with their faith intact. You would probably not come up with anything even remotely resembling this text.

    Let's see. It mentions nothing about a council or a new order of Mass. It does mention an evil pope, but in such vague, bizarre terms that it is nearly useless. All it says is that he has a "gaze of evil". What in the world does that even mean? How would anyone recognize this? Then it says he goes into an ugly church. That's it? What good is that? And Our Lady (supposedly) then has the gall to say "You saw the apostasy in the Church" after not having shown anyone anything of such a nature at all? All they saw was a pope with a "gaze of evil" who goes into a church that looks like a concrete bunker. This is not what apostasy in the Church looks like.

    The second half of the message is even more absurd, i.e. the part about Fatima, and how the headquarters of the Church will be moved from Rome to Fatima, and Rome will be destroyed. What on earth would be the point of moving the geographic location of the Church's capital, anyway? What problem is that going to solve?

    But then it talks about how the tomb of St. Peter has to be moved to Fatima? Really? Remember, again, that this is a couple-hundred-word message to help souls in the worst crisis the Church has ever seen. And Our Lady is worried about moving the tomb of St. Peter to some other location? If a true pope took office today, the idea of moving St. Peter's tomb to another country would probably not make the top 3,000 items on his to-do list, assuming it made it at all, which obviously it wouldn't.

    It is telling that a significant amount of the text, about a third of it, is about how Rome must be transferred to Fatima. Guimaraes thought maybe that points to someone in Fatima being behind the forgery, as it exalts Fatima as the most important place in the world. And it says that the "cathedral of Rome" must be destroyed. (It's also a little weird that Our Lady would call for a church to be destroyed anyway, now that I think about it.) But the cathedral of Rome is not the same place as St. Peter's tomb anyway (okay, not that it says it is, but it's kind of implied). The cathedral of Rome is St. John Lateran's basilica; whereas St. Peter is buried at St. Peter's Basilica.

    Last of all we have the (apparently idle, since it didn't happen) threat that Rome would be destroyed within a certain deadline after an unspecified "order" is published. This is where it truly gets weird. A deadline for an enormous divine punishment is specified, and we can't even figure out what the deadline actually is. It says Rome will be destroyed if it doesn't repent within "69 weeks" of the publishing of some order, and we can't even figure out if that means "69 weeks", "69 years", or "69 7-year periods". All three theories have pros and cons, and none of them really fits entirely. How could God give a deadline that no one can even figure out when it is, especially for a chastisement like that? When Jonas was sent by God to Nineve with a deadline for the Ninevites, the deadline was clear: it was 40 days for them to repent, or the city would be destroyed. And the Ninevites understood when the deadline was, and so did Jonas. There was no question about what it meant. But it would be absurd if God had destroyed the city a few days later and then said, "When I said '40 days', I really meant '40 hours', and you guys just ran out of time." That would be completely unjust, and God would never do such a thing. So if God were to give a warning that included a threat and a deadline for the threat to take effect, there would be no question when the deadline was.

    I'll dig up a bit more information on forgeries and whether they can fool handwriting experts, since that seems to be your main argument at the moment, but this is what I have for now.

    If you'd like I could go through each argument point by point and show how all apocalyptic literature, from Sacred Scripture, speaks about the end times event in exactly the way you are complaining about. This is how Heaven discusses these mysterious things. God provides clues. He never describes things literally.

    Besides the Apocalypse, which is well-known to everyone, I will note St. Paul's discussion of the "apostasy" in 2 Thessalonians 2. What does St. Paul talk about? A "revolt/apostasy" initiated by "the man of sin," who sits in "the temple of God" acting as if he is God. This is THE infallible sign of the end times given by St. Paul.

    St. Paul then explains the deception, the "operation of error." Is this explanation perfectly clear to you? I doubt it. But this is how Heaven wants these things to be discussed. Hints. Clues. Metaphors. Figures. So that the humble who don't initially understand will ask God to enlighten them on the meaning.

    For an example of a humble prayer for this understanding, read Daniel's prayer in Chapter 9. Daniel is meditating on the "70 years prophecy" of Jeremiah. He doesn't understand it, but he thinks he's living through it. After he prays a penitential prayer, the Angel Gabriel comes to him and explains the prophecy. Is his explanation a complete literal explanation? No. But Gabriel does make some things more clear. The main thing he clarifies is that Daniel is not living in the time of the "70 years" of Jeremiah. It is an end times prophecy. He then describes the actual sequence of events that will take place. But that description is veiled in figurative language, just like the entire Book of Daniel.

    Applying your interpretive method to the TIA Third Secret, you say, "Why would God waste my time describing things in this indirect way? What use is it to me? It can't be a true prophecy." That attitude is what God hates. And that is why he said he will speak in parables [Matthew 13]:


    Quote
    10 And his disciples came and said to him: Why speakest thou to them in parables?

    11 Who answered and said to them: Because to you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven: but to them it is not given. 12 For he that hath, to him shall be given, and he shall abound: but he that hath not, from him shall be taken away that also which he hath. 13 Therefore do I speak to them in parables: because seeing they see not, and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. 14 And the prophecy of Isaias is fulfilled in them, who saith: By hearing you shall hear, and shall not understand: and seeing you shall see, and shall not perceive. 15 For the heart of this people is grown gross, and with their ears they have been dull of hearing, and their eyes they have shut: lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
    16 But blessed are your eyes, because they see, and your ears, because they hear. 17 For, amen, I say to you, many prophets and just men have desired to see the things that you see, and have not seen them, and to hear the things that you hear and have not heard them.



    Offline Deusvult

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    Re: The TIA 3rd Secret of Fatima
    « Reply #67 on: March 03, 2025, 08:38:09 AM »
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  • Angelus is saying that 69 weeks should be 69 years.  1960 + 69 = 2029.  The year 2029 is 100 yrs since Our Lady requested Fatima consecration.  The satanic elites have “Agenda 2030” for their NWO.  Coincidence?  Can’t be.
    Wow, that's crazy !


    Offline Angelus

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    Re: The TIA 3rd Secret of Fatima
    « Reply #68 on: March 03, 2025, 09:17:51 AM »
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  • Wow, that's crazy !

    Yes, the 100 years began in 1929, as Pax Vobis said. 

    Besides Our Lady's request for the consecration of Russia, it was also in 1929 that the Lateran Treaty was signed. The Lateran Treaty created the Vatican City state as a nation recognized by the other secular nations. This is very important. Read about it. It is the Vatican's prostitution of itself with earthly power. They chose to follow earthly (geo-political, naturalistic) plans to bring peace in the world, rather than the heavenly (supernatural) plan given by Our Lady.

    The Apocalypse discusses the Beast with 7 Heads and 10 horns. The 7 heads are the 7 heads of the Vatican City state (Pius XI, Pius XII, John XXIII, Paul VI, JPI, JPII, BXVI). The 10 Horns are Bergoglio and his C9 (Council of Cardinal Advisors). Bergolio is the Beast, called the "eighth" in Apocalypse 17. He is a usurper, a heretical antipope, destroyer, man of sin. Otherwise known as "the Antichrist" by the Church Fathers.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: The TIA 3rd Secret of Fatima
    « Reply #69 on: March 03, 2025, 09:42:07 AM »
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  • Yes, the 100 years began in 1929, as Pax Vobis said.

    Yes, and I believe June 13, 1929.  It was 100 years to the day with the requested consecration of France to the Sacred Heart of Jesus that the King of France was deposed.  Our Lord likened the delay for the consecration of Russia to Our Lady's Immaculate Heart to that same delay ... so I fully expect something terrible to begin unfolding on June 13, 2029.

    Leo XIII's 75 years (from the vision) I believe started in 1958, with the Anti-Pope Roncalli kicking off the Conciliar Revolution.  That would finish in 2033.

    So ... something kicks off on June 13, 2029 that ultimately ends with the Triumph of the Church 3.5 or so years later.  That also coincides almost perfectly with exactly 2000 years after the Public Ministry of Our Lord, where His Public Ministry would have begun somewhere in A.D. 29 and ended with His Crucifixion and Resurrection in A.D. 33.

    Offline Deusvult

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    Re: The TIA 3rd Secret of Fatima
    « Reply #70 on: March 03, 2025, 10:59:15 AM »
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  • Yes, and I believe June 13, 1929.  It was 100 years to the day with the requested consecration of France to the Sacred Heart of Jesus that the King of France was deposed.  Our Lord likened the delay for the consecration of Russia to Our Lady's Immaculate Heart to that same delay ... so I fully expect something terrible to begin unfolding on June 13, 2029.

    Leo XIII's 75 years (from the vision) I believe started in 1958, with the Anti-Pope Roncalli kicking off the Conciliar Revolution.  That would finish in 2033.

    So ... something kicks off on June 13, 2029 that ultimately ends with the Triumph of the Church 3.5 or so years later.  That also coincides almost perfectly with exactly 2000 years after the Public Ministry of Our Lord, where His Public Ministry would have begun somewhere in A.D. 29 and ended with His Crucifixion and Resurrection in A.D. 33.
    Does the triumph of the Church is the return of Our Lord?


    Offline songbird

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    Re: The TIA 3rd Secret of Fatima
    « Reply #71 on: March 03, 2025, 11:45:52 AM »
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  • Reign of Mary, makes sense. Her Immaculate Heart will reign.  Followed by a time of Peace.

    Offline Cera

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    Re: The TIA 3rd Secret of Fatima
    « Reply #72 on: March 03, 2025, 12:12:22 PM »
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  • Consider the source. Let's not forget that the head of TIA, Atila Sinke Guimarães, has never denied being a worshipper of layman (not a doctor) Mr. Plinio Márcio. He was/is slave # 11, who lay on his face before Mr. Plinio and said a public confession to this layman who they worshipped, along with worshipping Plinio's deceased mother with a litany. Nor has Atila has never denied praying to Mr. Plinio this prayer I am not the one who lives but it is My Lord ( Dr. Pliny) that lives in me. From him all graces come for me, his spirit dwells in me. Nor has Atila, head of TIA ever denied saying this mockery of the Ave Maria:
    "Hail, Luigi Plinio Elia ( official name of Doctor Pliny in Sacred Slavery ), full of love and hate, the Most Holy Virgin is with you you are blessed among the faithful, and the fruit of your love and your hate, which is the Counter-ʀɛʋօʟutιօn, is blessed. O Sacral Luigi Plinio Elia, admirable and most Catholic father of the Counter-ʀɛʋօʟutιօn and the Kingdom of Mary, pray for us lame (capen gas) and sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen "

    See this docuмent:

    The following article is taken from La Tradizione Cattolica , new series, Year IX, n. 38-1998, reproducing the deposition of the TFP affiliate Luiz Filipe de Freitas Guimaraes Abias, Curitiba, 24 August 1984.

    The statement was registered in the Public Archives (August 24, 1984) and published on March 14, 1985 by "Folha da Manha"; Campos, RJ, Brazil.

    I, the undersigned, Filipe de Freitas Guimarães Ablas, RG (General Register) 3,706,587, SP, unmarried, resident in Curitiba (Brazil), C.so Manoel Ribas, no. 418, I declare to be true that, when I belonged to the TFP, Brazilian Society for the Defense of Tradition, Family and Property, in 1967 I entered a secret society of that association, called "Sacra Slavitù", also known by its members as "Always Living ".
    The members of this secret society have made a consecration of themselves as slaves of Doctor Atila Sinke Guimarães - slave Plinio Márcio. in the same sense that St. Louis Grignion de Montfort recommended doing it to Our Lady. For this consecration as a slave to Doctor Pliny the same text established by St. Louis for the consecration to the Madonna was used, with some adaptations. We proceeded in this way because Doctor Pliny was considered to have the same spirit of the Madonna since he was one with the Immaculate and Wisdom Heart of Mary. The members of the said society prayed daily using the following prayer of the "Sacred Slavery", composed by Doctor Pliny himself:
    "Immaculate and Wisdom Heart of Mary, in this atmosphere of our days in which all are free men, drunk with freedom, I know that I have made myself your slave to be like the last of the men of which My Lord ( Dr. Pliny ) can to dispose of as a miserable object without a will of its own. In this atmosphere of our days in which everything speaks of naturalism, I know that my life is entirely supernatural. I am not the one who lives but it is My Lord ( Dr. Pliny) that lives in me. From him all graces come for me, his spirit dwells in me, and I can do, in this union as a slave, all that he himself can. In this climate of our days, without greatness, without horizons, of optimism and mediocrity, I know that our age will bring us grandiose events, with grandiose horizons in which I will have to live as a hero the same greatness of My Lord. Looking within myself and seeing so much smallness, I know that faith in all that I have just said will give me a participation in the very greatness of My Lord ( Doctor Pliny ), and will make myself a perfect Apostle of the end times. , according to the prophetic prayer of St. Louis Grignion de Montfort. In all this I believe, but, oh my Lord (Doctor Pliny), help my unbelief ".
    A parody of the Hail Mary towards him (the Doctor) was also recited as a prayer , which incorporated the prophecies of St. Louis, St. Elijah and himself:
    "Hail, Luigi Plinio Elia ( official name of Doctor Pliny in Sacred Slavery ), full of love and hate, the Most Holy Virgin is with you you are blessed among the faithful, and the fruit of your love and your hate, which is the Counter-ʀɛʋօʟutιօn, is blessed. O Sacral Luigi Plinio Elia, admirable and most Catholic father of the Counter-ʀɛʋօʟutιօn and the Kingdom of Mary, pray for us lame (capen gas) and sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen ".
    The rosary was also recited using this Hail Mary. The meetings also began with the same Hail Mary, the aforementioned prayer of the Sacred Slavery and with the ejaculations: " Hail, Luigi Plinio Elia, admirable and most Catholic father of the Counter-ʀɛʋօʟutιօn and of the Kingdom of Mary! Ave, Luigi Plinio Elia, most faithful slave of Immaculate and Wisdom Heart of Mary! "There were also Litanies for him, the Doctor, and it was said that they had been composed by Marcos Ribeiro Dantas (slave Pliny Paul).
    In one of these ejaculations to Doctor Pliny it was said: " Precursor of Elijah, pray for us! "
     
    Doctor Pliny also gave the blessing to his slaves. Sometimes, when they received it, they would lie on the ground with their faces turned upwards and then Doctor Pliny placed his right foot on their face and gave the blessing saying: "Benedictio Matris et Mediatricis descendat super vos et maneat semper ".
    Doctor Pliny's slaves used to confess to him, telling him their shortcomings and even their sins. After the accusation, if the slave asked him for a penance, Doctor Pliny had the habit of giving three slaps on the face of the slave. He later gave the blessing.
    The entry into the "Always Living" took place, through a ceremony that lasted a few hours, in the building on Via Alagoas, on the second floor of the house, and sometimes in other places.
    Doctor Pliny was seated in a small throne with the habit and cloak of the Carmelite Third Order. The assistants used the dress without the cloak. The person who was about to be introduced into the said society stretched out as if dead, prostrated himself on the ground in front of Doctor Pliny. At this point, from Doctor Pliny, he received the order to get up for a new life and he (the Doctor Ed.), Said to him: " Exsurge ". This meant that the person had died and a new man was born, a slave of the prophet, an Apostle of the end times.
    The person then fulfilled his consecration as a slave to Doctor Pliny and gave him all his being and his material and spiritual goods. This was done by handing him symbolic objects. Doctor Pliny acquired an absolute right over the slave as in Roman law, except for the right of life and death. This is why they call him " Dominus Plinius ".
     
    The ceremony continued to reach the kiss of the feet and hands of the prophet (Doctor Pliny) by the slave. Then, Doctor Pliny left the throne and made his new slave sit there, since he was now a new Pliny. Doctor Pliny kissed the feet and hands of his new slave. Then, as a result of a transforming union that took place between them, one lived in the other. The slave was a new Pliny. For this reason, he adopted the name of Pliny, composing it with another of a patron and a title of Our Lady. For example, I chose that of Pliny Bernardo Dimas Longinos of Our Lady, Holy Queen of the Apostles of the last times. I was known as Plinio Dimas. The existence of "Sacred Slavery" could not be communicated to the other members of the TFP,
    The first twelve slaves were:
    1) Caio Vidigal Xavier da Silveira - slave Mário Pliny. 2) Eduardo Barros Brotero - Pliny Eduardo slave. 3) Luiz Nazareno d'Assunpção Filho - slave Pliny Luiz. 4) João Scognamiglio Clà Dias - slave Pliny Fernando. 5) Humberto Braccese - slave Plinio Cirineu. 6) Fernando Siqueira - Bernardo slave. 7) Carlos Espírito Hofmeister Poli -slave Plinio José. 8) Marcos Ribeiro Dantes - Pliny Paulo slave. 9) Mário Navarro da Costa - slave Pliny Elias. 10) Dom Bertrand de Orleans and Bragança - slave Plinio Miguel. 11) Atila Sinke Guimarães - slave Plinio Márcio. 12) Cosme Beccar Varella Hijo-slave Plinio Lázaro.
    As time passed, other people entered the "Always Living". They are:
    13) Pliny Vidigal Xavier da Silveira - slave Pliny Elizeu. 14) Paulo Corrêa de Brito Filho - slave Pliny Jeremias. 15) Luiz Filipe Ablas - slave Pliny Dimas. 16) "X" - slave Plinio Inácio. 17) Dom Luiz de Orleans and Bragança - slave Plinio da Cruz. 18) Antônio Marcelino Pereira de Almeida - slave Pliny Francisco. 19) Edson Neves da Silva - slave Pliny Batista. 20) Fernando Antunes Aldunate - slave Pliny Longinos. 21) Leo Nino Doscolo Daniele - slave Plinio Tobias. 22) Fernando Furquin de Almeida Filho - slave Pliny Amen. 23) Martim Afonso Xavier da Silveira Jr. - slave Plinio Pedro. 24) Sergio Bidueira - slave Pliny Hildebrando. 25) José Lúcio de Araújo Correia - slave Plinio Ezquiel. 26) Julio Ubeold - slave Pliny Tomaz. 27) Fernado Teles - slave Plinio Leofredo. 28) Roberto Guerreiro - slave Pliny Agostinho. 29) Afonso Becar Verella - slave Plinio Ambrósio. 30) Miguel Becar Verella - Pliny Domingos slave. 31) Carlos Viano - slave Plinio Godofredo. 32) The Argentine Escurra - slave Pliny Leon. 33) Carlos Antunez Aldunate - slave Plinio Emanuel. 34) Jaime Antunez Aldunate - slave Plinio Gregório. 35) Gonzalo Larrain - slave Plinio Caetano. 36) Patricio Larrain - Pliny João slave. 37) Patrício Amunategui - slave Pliny Santiago. 38) Casté - slave Pliny Joaquim. 39) Pedro Paulo Figueiredo - slave Plinio Jacó '. 40) Carlos Alberto Soares Correia - slave Plinio Atenásio. 41) Aloisio Torres - slave Pliny Macabeu. 42) Roberto Esper Kalás - slave Plinio Bento. 43) Paulo Roberto Rosa - Pliny Tiago slave. 44) Paulo Cesar Nascimento - slave Pliny Henoc. 45) Lúcio Montes - slave Plinio Estevão. 46) "Y" - slave Pliny Afonso. 47) João Carlos Leal da Costa - slave Plinio Matatias. 48) Francisco Xavier Tosto - slave Pliny Isaias. 49) José Antônio Tosto - slave Plinio Sebastian. 50) "Z" - slave Pliny Clóvis. 51) Guerreiro Dantas - slave Plinio Davi. 52) Rivoir - slave Pliny Hermenegildo. 53) Alejandro Bravo - slave Pliny Samuel. 54) Carlos Ybarguren - slave Pliny Antonio. 55) Nelso Fragelli - slave Plinio Tomé. 56) Fernado Larrain - Pliny slave. 52) Rivoir - slave Pliny Hermenegildo. 53) Alejandro Bravo - slave Pliny Samuel. 54) Carlos Ybarguren - slave Pliny Antonio. 55) Nelso Fragelli - slave Plinio Tomé. 56) Fernado Larrain - Pliny slave. 52) Rivoir - slave Pliny Hermenegildo. 53) Alejandro Bravo - slave Pliny Samuel. 54) Carlos Ybarguren - slave Pliny Antonio. 55) Nelso Fragelli - slave Plinio Tomé. 56) Fernado Larrain - Pliny slave.
    There were others who, at the time, were not received in the "Always Living", but were equally slaves of Doctor Plinio: Antonio Candido Lara Ducca - Ducca slave and Carlos Eduardo Schafer - Schafer slave.
    Speaking of his own power and his slaves, Doctor Pliny asked: " What is the power of the Pope compared to all this? "
     
    It was said among the slaves that the "Secret of Mary", of which St. Louis Grignion de Montfort speaks is probably the institution of the "Sacred Slavery" towards Doctor Pliny.
    Doctor Pliny was then designated with the nickname "Maria", since Mary's slave was Pliny's slave.
    Slaves used to ask for graces, kneeling before Doctor Pliny. For example, Cosme Beccar Varella Hijo, in his consecration, asked "My Lord" for the grace of becoming a widower.
    I would also like to declare that I myself consecrated myself as the son of Donna Lucilia (mother of Doctor Pliny), kneeling in her tomb, in the presence of Doctor Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira and his personal guards.
      

    Curitiba, August 24, 1984
    Luiz Filipe de Freitas Guimaraes Abias
      

    Witnesses to the deposition:
    Orlando Fedeli 1.433.401, RG
    Giulio Folena 2.481.149, RG.
    Cartorio Ramos, Second Civil Registration Office, Titles and Docuмents, Via Mal. Floriano Peixoto, 986 - Tel. 224-2444.
    Declaration presented today. Drawn up and recorded on microfilm (no. 544948). Archive number: 330009.

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     nothing is changed, that the source is specified - the Kelebek website http://www.kelebekler.com -
     and that also publish this clarification.
     For articles taken from other sources, consult the respective sites or authors


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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: The TIA 3rd Secret of Fatima
    « Reply #73 on: March 03, 2025, 01:31:55 PM »
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  • Consider the source. Let's not forget that the head of TIA, Atila Sinke Guimarães, has never denied being a worshipper of layman (not a doctor) Mr. Plinio Márcio. 

    Are you still at this nonsense?  NOBODY "worships" Plinio.  This has been debunked 100 times and in a 100 different ways, but you persist in it, to the point that it cannot be excused as anything other than willful slander.

    Offline Cera

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    Re: The TIA 3rd Secret of Fatima
    « Reply #74 on: March 03, 2025, 03:17:18 PM »
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  • Are you still at this nonsense?  NOBODY "worships" Plinio.  This has been debunked 100 times and in a 100 different ways, but you persist in it, to the point that it cannot be excused as anything other than willful slander.
    Never debunked. Atila has never denied his worship of Plinio and his deceased mother.

    For those interested in the truth about TIA, to this day you can see the blasphemy of Atila still present on his own website. He compares Almighty God to Mr. Plinio and guess who comes in first?

    Scroll down to page 37 to see Atila say that his relationship with Plinio has “more of the divine presence” than God’s presence when He was present with Moses in the Burning Bush. Note that when Atila uses the word "Prophet" he is referring to Plinio.

    https://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/Internet_Files/F142_Defense_Eng.pdf

    The great Moses with his burning bush on the top of Sinai does not make me jealous. For if he were there with God for 40 days, I have been with Dr. Plinio for 33 years. And in this relationship I see, perhaps, more of the divine presence than he before the sacred bush. And I guard the hope that I still may win the dispute with this Prophet when I shall pass from this exile to the Fatherland.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary