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Author Topic: The TFP and Bishop de Castro Mayer  (Read 5029 times)

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Offline Plenus Venter

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Re: The TFP and Bishop de Castro Mayer
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2023, 04:34:56 PM »
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  • Thank you for your posts, Cera. I agree, that is all very concerning. There seems to be a real Traditional Catholic facade, but behind the scenes there seems to be more to it.

    I had some exposure to the TFP at university but I didn't get too invloved. There was never any discussion about Mass and the sacraments, it was only ever about this external activity, rallies etc., and not under the auspices of the clergy in any way whatsoever, that is what concerned me. I thought perhaps things had changed. I can well see how young men with religious vocations could be sidetracked with this, whereas true lay catholic activity should foster vocations as does the MJCF.

    I recall in my seminary days learning from an SSPX priest who had trained in La Reja, that even when the founder, Plinio Correa de Oliveira, was still alive they had some bizarre ritual quasi-worshiping his deceased mother.

    Are things still the same? It seems unlikely that it would have changed from the descriptions given in these articles.

    You have convinced me of what I used to believe on this matter. I think one would need to exercise great caution if getting involved in their activities and be alert to the possibility of an anticlerical influence. If I were a parent, I would not want my boys getting involved with them without a lot more research, to say the least...

    Offline Meg

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    Re: The TFP and Bishop de Castro Mayer
    « Reply #16 on: December 12, 2023, 10:18:43 AM »
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  • Very few members ever attend Mass on Sundays, not because of any inability to locate a Tridentine Mass chapel, but because most do not want to go. A few do attend Mass at a nearby Byzantine Catholic Church. Members of the TFP derisively refer to faithful Catholics who do attend the Tridentine Mass as "trads." I was mocked one Sunday for reading the Mass to myself out of a missal. TFP leaders even joke about "trad" priests saying on one occasion that they would like to have one kept in the basement to be brought out when needed.

    Why is it that very few members of TFP attend Mass on Sunday? Do they believe that there's something wrong with the Old Mass? Or is it Roman Catholic Catholicism that they have a problem with?
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Online Persto

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    Re: The TFP and Bishop de Castro Mayer
    « Reply #17 on: December 12, 2023, 02:45:47 PM »
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  • Sounds like a description of controlled opposition.

    Let's not forget that TFP, along with the founder of offshoot TIA, were outed by a whistleblower as a secret society that worshipped Plinio de Oliveira and "consecrated" themselves to him in a mockery of the Catholic Consecration to Our Lady.

    The following article is taken from La Tradizione Cattolica , new series, Year IX, n. 38-1998, reproducing the deposition of the TFP affiliate Luiz Filipe de Freitas Guimaraes Abias, Curitiba, 24 August 1984.

    The statement was registered in the Public Archives (August 24, 1984) and published on March 14, 1985 by "Folha da Manha"; Campos, RJ, Brazil.

    I, the undersigned, Filipe de Freitas Guimarães Ablas, RG (General Register) 3,706,587, SP, unmarried, resident in Curitiba (Brazil), C.so Manoel Ribas, no. 418, I declare to be true that, when I belonged to the TFP, Brazilian Society for the Defense of Tradition, Family and Property, in 1967 I entered a secret society of that association, called "Sacra Slavitù", also known by its members as "Always Living ".
    The members of this secret society have made a consecration of themselves as slaves of Doctor Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira The existence of "Sacred Slavery" could not be communicated to the other members of the TFP,
    The first twelve slaves were:
    1) Caio Vidigal Xavier da Silveira - slave Mário Pliny. 2) Eduardo Barros Brotero - Pliny Eduardo slave. 3) Luiz Nazareno d'Assunpção Filho - slave Pliny Luiz. 4) João Scognamiglio Clà Dias - slave Pliny Fernando. 5) Humberto Braccese - slave Plinio Cirineu. 6) Fernando Siqueira - Bernardo slave. 7) Carlos Espírito Hofmeister Poli -slave Plinio José. 8) Marcos Ribeiro Dantes - Pliny Paulo slave. 9) Mário Navarro da Costa - slave Pliny Elias. 10) Dom Bertrand de Orleans and Bragança - slave Plinio Miguel. 11) Atila Sinke Guimarães - slave Plinio Márcio. 12) Cosme Beccar Varella Hijo-slave Plinio Lázaro.
     Kelebek website http://www.kelebekler.com -
    Thank you for this information, Cera!
    Persevere...
    Fear not, nor be any way discouraged- Duet.1:21

    Offline Cera

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    Re: The TFP and Bishop de Castro Mayer
    « Reply #18 on: December 13, 2023, 04:08:42 PM »
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  • Why is it that very few members of TFP attend Mass on Sunday? Do they believe that there's something wrong with the Old Mass? Or is it Roman Catholic Catholicism that they have a problem with?
    Excellent question Meg. The short answer is that they are not Catholic. As the letter of Bishop Meyer points out, they are an "anti-Catholic, anti-clerical, heretical sect."

    The TFP is clearly "controlled opposition" and has a known history of working with the CIA in South America. When I have time, I'll find the letter from TFP to the CIA, offering their services in gun-running and other aspects of warfare. TFP was also involved in cнιℓd тrαffιcking, not sex trafficking, but moving children to other nations to hide them from their parents (who trustingly perceived TFP as a trustworthy Lay Catholic Organization.)

    Lower-level members believe they are part of a lay Catholic group. Only at the top level of the inner circle are the disgusting facts known. (Similar to how the Freemasons and other secret societies work).

    As lower-level members work their way up, they discover that in TFP-land, Our Lord and Our Lady are insigificant. The ones who are worshipped are Plinio and his mother. They pray to him and to her. They make public confessions to him (a layperson). In a mockery of Our Lady, they say a litany to the mother of Plinio and also worship at her grave.

    It's well worth anyone's time to go back read the thread. Of note, the founder of TIA (which pretends to have separated from TFP) is Plinio Slave # 11, docuмented by an eye-witness. Atila has never disavowed his worship of Plinio.

    It is well-docuмented that John Hovart co-heads the U.S. TFP, while his sister Marian Hovart co-heads TIA. One former member of TFP says that the saying aroung the TFP office is "When TFP needs money, America Needs Fatima." ANF is a money-making project of TFP, posing as a Novus Ordo group.
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    Online Persto

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    Re: The TFP and Bishop de Castro Mayer
    « Reply #19 on: December 13, 2023, 04:16:44 PM »
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  • Excellent question Meg. The short answer is that they are not Catholic. As the letter of Bishop Meyer points out, they are an "anti-Catholic, anti-clerical, heretical sect."

    The TFP is clearly "controlled opposition" and has a known history of working with the CIA in South America. When I have time, I'll find the letter from TFP to the CIA, offering their services in gun-running and other aspects of warfare. TFP was also involved in cнιℓd тrαffιcking, not sex trafficking, but moving children to other nations to hide them from their parents (who trustingly perceived TFP as a trustworthy Lay Catholic Organization.)

    Lower-level members believe they are part of a lay Catholic group. Only at the top level of the inner circle are the disgusting facts known. (Similar to how the Freemasons and other secret societies work).

    As lower-level members work their way up, they discover that in TFP-land, Our Lord and Our Lady are insigificant. The ones who are worshipped are Plinio and his mother. They pray to him and to her. They make public confessions to him (a layperson). In a mockery of Our Lady, they say a litany to the mother of Plinio and also worship at her grave.

    It's well worth anyone's time to go back read the thread. Of note, the founder of TIA (which pretends to have separated from TFP) is Plinio Slave # 11, docuмented by an eye-witness. Atila has never disavowed his worship of Plinio.

    It is well-docuмented that John Hovart co-heads the U.S. TFP, while his sister Marian Hovart co-heads TIA. One former member of TFP says that the saying aroung the TFP office is "When TFP needs money, America Needs Fatima." ANF is a money-making project of TFP, posing as a Novus Ordo group.
    Thank you Cera for this info
    Persevere...
    Fear not, nor be any way discouraged- Duet.1:21


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: The TFP and Bishop de Castro Mayer
    « Reply #20 on: December 13, 2023, 05:50:02 PM »
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  • Thank you Cera for this info

    Don't trust her information.  She tends to exaggerate and makes stuff up because she has a personal ax to grind against the TFP.  Nobody "worships" Plinio.  What's left of the TFP in the US anyway are not anti-clerical either.

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: The TFP and Bishop de Castro Mayer
    « Reply #21 on: December 13, 2023, 07:46:33 PM »
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  • Why is it that very few members of TFP attend Mass on Sunday? Do they believe that there's something wrong with the Old Mass? Or is it Roman Catholic Catholicism that they have a problem with?

    That's a lie and boldface misrepresentation .   Most TFP members are devout and avid Catholics.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: The TFP and Bishop de Castro Mayer
    « Reply #22 on: December 13, 2023, 07:47:45 PM »
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  • Excellent question Meg. The short answer is that they are not Catholic. As the letter of Bishop Meyer points out, they are an "anti-Catholic, anti-clerical, heretical sect."

    The TFP is clearly "controlled opposition" and has a known history of working with the CIA in South America. When I have time, I'll find the letter from TFP to the CIA, offering their services in gun-running and other aspects of warfare. TFP was also involved in cнιℓd тrαffιcking, not sex trafficking, but moving children to other nations to hide them from their parents (who trustingly perceived TFP as a trustworthy Lay Catholic Organization.)

    Lower-level members believe they are part of a lay Catholic group. Only at the top level of the inner circle are the disgusting facts known. (Similar to how the Freemasons and other secret societies work).

    As lower-level members work their way up, they discover that in TFP-land, Our Lord and Our Lady are insigificant. The ones who are worshipped are Plinio and his mother. They pray to him and to her. They make public confessions to him (a layperson). In a mockery of Our Lady, they say a litany to the mother of Plinio and also worship at her grave.

    It's well worth anyone's time to go back read the thread. Of note, the founder of TIA (which pretends to have separated from TFP) is Plinio Slave # 11, docuмented by an eye-witness. Atila has never disavowed his worship of Plinio.

    It is well-docuмented that John Hovart co-heads the U.S. TFP, while his sister Marian Hovart co-heads TIA. One former member of TFP says that the saying aroung the TFP office is "When TFP needs money, America Needs Fatima." ANF is a money-making project of TFP, posing as a Novus Ordo group.

    You're a liar Cera.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline Cera

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    Re: The TFP and Bishop de Castro Mayer
    « Reply #23 on: December 14, 2023, 12:02:17 PM »
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  • Don't trust her information.  She tends to exaggerate and makes stuff up because she has a personal ax to grind against the TFP.  Nobody "worships" Plinio.  What's left of the TFP in the US anyway are not anti-clerical either.now changed to p. 37

    An Ad hominem attack is beneath you, Lad. Everything I've posted on this issue is backed up by docuмentation. Please challenge one fact at a time and I will provide the source material.

    Let's seek truth together and not get bogged down in emotionalism (one example being the "personal ax to grind" canard. Let us stay with facts and docuмents. One example of Plinio-worship (and a mockery of the Catholic Consecration to Mary) among many:

    The following article is taken from La Tradizione Cattolica , new series, Year IX, n. 38-1998, reproducing the deposition of the TFP affiliate Luiz Filipe de Freitas Guimaraes Abias, Curitiba, 24 August 1984.

    The statement was registered in the Public Archives (August 24, 1984) and published on March 14, 1985 by "Folha da Manha"; Campos, RJ, Brazil.
    I, the undersigned, Filipe de Freitas Guimarães Ablas, RG (General Register) 3,706,587, SP, unmarried, resident in Curitiba (Brazil), C.so Manoel Ribas, no. 418, I declare to be true that, when I belonged to the TFP, Brazilian Society for the Defense of Tradition, Family and Property, in 1967 I entered a secret society of that association, called "Sacra Slavitù", also known by its members as "Always Living ".

    The members of this secret society have made a consecration of themselves as slaves of Doctor Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira in the same sense that St. Louis Grignion de Montfort recommended doing it to Our Lady. For this consecration as a slave to Doctor Pliny the same text established by St. Louis for the consecration to the Madonna was used, with some adaptations. We proceeded in this way because Doctor Pliny was considered to have the same spirit of the Madonna since he was one with the Immaculate and Wisdom Heart of Mary. The members of the said society prayed daily using the following prayer of the "Sacred Slavery", composed by Doctor Pliny himself:

    "Immaculate and Wisdom Heart of Mary, in this atmosphere of our days in which all are free men, drunk with freedom, I know that I have made myself your slave to be like the last of the men of which My Lord ( Dr. Pliny ) can to dispose of as a miserable object without a will of its own. In this atmosphere of our days in which everything speaks of naturalism, I know that my life is entirely supernatural. I am not the one who lives but it is My Lord ( Dr. Pliny) that lives in me. From him all graces come for me, his spirit dwells in me, and I can do, in this union as a slave, all that he himself can. In this climate of our days, without greatness, without horizons, of optimism and mediocrity, I know that our age will bring us grandiose events, with grandiose horizons in which I will have to live as a hero the same greatness of My Lord. Looking within myself and seeing so much smallness, I know that faith in all that I have just said will give me a participation in the very greatness of My Lord ( Doctor Pliny ), and will make myself a perfect Apostle of the end times. , according to the prophetic prayer of St. Louis Grignion de Montfort. In all this I believe, but, oh my Lord (Doctor Pliny), help my unbelief ".

    A parody of the Hail Mary towards him (the Doctor) was also recited as a prayer , which incorporated the prophecies of St. Louis, St. Elijah and himself:

    "Hail, Luigi Plinio Elia ( official name of Doctor Pliny in Sacred Slavery ), full of love and hate, the Most Holy Virgin is with you you are blessed among the faithful, and the fruit of your love and your hate, which is the Counter-ʀɛʋ ʟutι n, is blessed. O Sacral Luigi Plinio Elia, admirable and most Catholic father of the Counter-ʀɛʋ ʟutι n and the Kingdom of Mary, pray for us lame (capen gas) and sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen ".

    The rosary was also recited using this Hail Mary. The meetings also began with the same Hail Mary, the aforementioned prayer of the Sacred Slavery and with the ejaculations: " Hail, Luigi Plinio Elia, admirable and most Catholic father of the Counter-ʀɛʋ ʟutι n and of the Kingdom of Mary! Ave, Luigi Plinio Elia, most faithful slave of Immaculate and Wisdom Heart of Mary! "There were also Litanies for him, the Doctor, and it was said that they had been composed by Marcos Ribeiro Dantas (slave Pliny Paul).
    In one of these ejaculations to Doctor Pliny it was said: " Precursor of Elijah, pray for us! "
    . . . Doctor Pliny was seated in a small throne with the habit and cloak of the Carmelite Third Order. The assistants used the dress without the cloak. The person who was about to be introduced into the said society stretched out as if dead, prostrated himself on the ground in front of Doctor Pliny. At this point, from Doctor Pliny, he received the order to get up for a new life and he (the Doctor Ed.), Said to him: " Exsurge ". This meant that the person had died and a new man was born, a slave of the prophet, an Apostle of the end times.
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    Offline Cera

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    Re: The TFP and Bishop de Castro Mayer
    « Reply #24 on: December 14, 2023, 12:05:17 PM »
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  • You're a liar Cera.
    Please be specific. I am happy to back up every statement I've made. Name-calling gets us nowhere.
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    Offline Giovanni Berto

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    Re: The TFP and Bishop de Castro Mayer
    « Reply #25 on: December 14, 2023, 12:30:50 PM »
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  • I have never seem a convincing answer to the accusations against Dr. Plinio and the TFP in general.

    As far as I know, neither the TFP nor the TIA are Traditionalists. They merely tend to Traditionalism. 


    Offline Cera

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    Re: The TFP and Bishop de Castro Mayer
    « Reply #26 on: December 14, 2023, 06:42:40 PM »
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  • I have never seem a convincing answer to the accusations against Dr. Plinio and the TFP in general.
    You have a good point, which also explains why those who see themselves as their defenders so quickly sink into the bottomless pit of name-calling.

    Undecided, rational people who like to hear all sides would love to hear convincing responses.

    John Lamb, a poster who was here on CI ages ago made a post which I am unable to find using the search box. He cited this from TIA, written by Atila:

    "The great Moses with his burning bush on the top of Sinai does not make me jealous. For if he were there with God for 40 days, I have been with Dr. Plinio for 33 years. And in this relationship I see, perhaps, more of the divine presence than he before the sacred bush."

    https://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/Internet_Files/F142_Defense_Eng.pdf
    originally on p. 36
    now changed to p. 37


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    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: The TFP and Bishop de Castro Mayer
    « Reply #27 on: December 14, 2023, 07:58:21 PM »
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  • You have a good point, which also explains why those who see themselves as their defenders so quickly sink into the bottomless pit of name-calling.

    Undecided, rational people who like to hear all sides would love to hear convincing responses.

    John Lamb, a poster who was here on CI ages ago made a post which I am unable to find using the search box. He cited this from TIA, written by Atila:

    "The great Moses with his burning bush on the top of Sinai does not make me jealous. For if he were there with God for 40 days, I have been with Dr. Plinio for 33 years. And in this relationship I see, perhaps, more of the divine presence than he before the sacred bush."

    https://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/Internet_Files/F142_Defense_Eng.pdf
    originally on p. 36
    now changed to p. 37

    Thank you Cera for exposing this.

    I just read both pages 36 and 37. I find it extremely disturbing and cultish. Frankly, I don’t know how any Catholic could endorse such sycophantic behavior. I only read two pages and it made me want to vomit!
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline Cera

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    Re: The TFP and Bishop de Castro Mayer
    « Reply #28 on: December 15, 2023, 06:28:02 PM »
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  • Thank you Cera for exposing this.

    I just read both pages 36 and 37. I find it extremely disturbing and cultish. Frankly, I don’t know how any Catholic could endorse such sycophantic behavior. I only read two pages and it made me want to vomit!
    Did you read them on the TIA website?
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    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: The TFP and Bishop de Castro Mayer
    « Reply #29 on: December 15, 2023, 07:08:32 PM »
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  • "Hail, Luigi Plinio Elia ( official name of Doctor Pliny in Sacred Slavery ), full of love and hate, the Most Holy Virgin is with you you are blessed among the faithful, and the fruit of your love and your hate, which is the Counter-ʀɛʋ ʟutι n, is blessed. O Sacral Luigi Plinio Elia, admirable and most Catholic father of the Counter-ʀɛʋ ʟutι n and the Kingdom of Mary, pray for us lame (capen gas) and sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen ".

    Horrible.

    But, pray tell, what in the world is "capen gas"?

    Assuming that the writer meant to say "capon", the closest I can come to it is "chicken farts".  (Yes, chickens do that.  "Today I learned...".)

    Must be some idiom in Portuguese.