Author Topic: The Synods Final Relatio: Adulterers in State of Grace!  (Read 3262 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Geremia

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2534
  • Reputation: +704/-129
  • Gender: Male
    • St. Isidore e-book library
The Synods Final Relatio: Adulterers in State of Grace!
« on: October 24, 2015, 03:36:18 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote
       Discernment and Integration

        84. The baptized who are divorced and civilly remarried are to be more integrated in the Christian communities in the various possible ways, avoiding every occasion of scandal.
        The logic of integration is the key to their pastoral accompaniment, so that they be aware not only that they belong to the Body of Christ, that is the Church, but that they may have a joyful and fruitful experience. They are baptized, they are brothers and sisters, the Holy Spirit pours gifts and charisms in them for the good of all. Their participation can be expressed in various ecclesial services: it is therefore necessary to discern which of the different forms of exclusion currently practiced in a liturgical, educational, pastoral, and institutional role that can be overcome. They should not only not feel excommunicated, but they should live and mature as living members of the Church, feeling her as a mother that welcomes them always, takes care of them affectionately, and encourages them on the path of life and Gospel. This integration is necessary for the Christian care and education of their children, who must be considered what is most important. For the Christian community, taking care of these persons is not a weakening of their own faith and testimony regarding matrimonial indissolubility: rather, the Church expresses precisely in this care her charity.

        85. Saint John Paul II offered an all-encompassing criterion, that remains the basis for valuation of these situations: "Pastors must know that, for the sake of truth, they are obliged to exercise careful discernment of situations. There is in fact a difference between those who have sincerely tried to save their first marriage and have been unjustly abandoned, and those who through their own grave fault have destroyed a canonically valid marriage. Finally, there are those who have entered into a second union for the sake of the children's upbringing, and who are sometimes subjectively certain in conscience that their previous and irreparably destroyed marriage had never been valid." (FC, 84) It is therefore a duty of the priests to accompany the interested parties on the path of discernment according to the teaching of the Church and the orientations of the Bishop. In this process, it will be useful to make an examination of conscience, by way of moments of reflection and repentance. Remarried divorcees should ask themselves how they behaved themselves when their conjugal union entered in crisis; if there were attempts at reconciliation; what is the situation of the abandoned partner ["partner" in the original Italian]; what consequences the new relationship has on the rest of the family and in the community of the faithful; what example does it offer to young people who are to prepare themselves to matrimony. A sincere reflection may reinforce trust in the mercy of God that is not denied to anyone.

        Additionally, it cannot be denied that in some circumstances, "the imputability and the responsibility for an action can be diminished or annulled (CIC, 1735) due to various conditioners. Consequently, the judgment on an objective situation should lead to the judgment on a 'subjective imputability'" (Pontifical Council for Legislative Texts, Declaration of June 24, 2000, 2a). In determined circumstances, the persons find great difficulty with acting in a different way. Therefore, while holding up a general rule, it is necessary to recognize that the responsibility regarding specific actions or decisions is not the same in every case. Pastoral discernment, while taking into account the rightly formed conscience of persons, should take these situations into account. Also the consequences of the accomplished acts are not necessarily the same in every case.

        86. The path of accompaniment and discernment orients these faithful to becoming conscious of their situation before God. The conversation with the priest, in internal forum, concurs to the formation of a correct judgment on what prevents the possibility of fuller participation in the life of the Church and on the steps that may favor it and make it grow. Considering that in the same law there is no graduality (cf. FC, 34), this discernment must never disregard the demands of truth and charity of the Gospel proposed by the Church. In order for this to happen, the necessary conditions of humility, reserve, love for the Church and to her teaching, in the sincere search for the will of God and for the desire to reach a more perfect answer to the latter, are to be guaranteed.
    (source)

    "[T]he Holy Spirit pours gifts and charisms in them [the 'baptized who are divorced and civilly remarried,' i.e., adulterers]"!!!
    Adulterers live in mortal sin; thus, they are not in a state of grace! How could "the Holy Spirit pour… gifts and charisms in them"‽
    St. Isidore e-book library: https://isidore.co/calibre

    Offline 2Vermont

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3901
    • Reputation: +1761/-138
    • Gender: Female
    The Synods Final Relatio: Adulterers in State of Grace!
    « Reply #1 on: October 24, 2015, 03:55:15 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • This is not the Catholic Church speaking...again.
    If any one saith, that the ceremonies, vestments, and outward signs, which the Catholic Church makes use of in the celebration of masses, are incentives to impiety, rather than offices of piety; let him be anathema. - Council of Trent


    Offline Geremia

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2534
    • Reputation: +704/-129
    • Gender: Male
      • St. Isidore e-book library
    The Synods Final Relatio: Adulterers in State of Grace!
    « Reply #2 on: October 24, 2015, 04:05:16 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Geremia
    Adulterers live in mortal sin; thus, they are not in a state of grace! How could "the Holy Spirit pour… gifts and charisms in them"‽
    To be more precise, I should say:
    Quote from: Geremia
    Adulterers live in mortal sin; thus, they are not in a state of (sanctifying) grace! How could "the Holy Spirit [always] pour… gifts and charisms in [all of] them"‽
    Adulterers live in a state of mortal sin. That does not mean they are cut off from all graces, but from sanctifying grace.

    But even in terms of actual graces, the Holy Ghost can grant or refuse to grant them to whosoever he chooses, so it's not always true "the Holy Spirit pours gifts and charisms in [all of] them for the good of all."

    Also, "no one has the gift of understanding without sanctifying grace." (St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica II-II q. 8 a. 5 c.).
    St. Isidore e-book library: https://isidore.co/calibre

    Offline RomanCatholic1953

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5355
    • Reputation: +1981/-35
    • Gender: Male
    The Synods Final Relatio: Adulterers in State of Grace!
    « Reply #3 on: October 24, 2015, 04:45:59 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • HERESY

    BURN THEM AT THE STAKE.

    Offline Geremia

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2534
    • Reputation: +704/-129
    • Gender: Male
      • St. Isidore e-book library
    The Synods Final Relatio: Adulterers in State of Grace!
    « Reply #4 on: October 24, 2015, 06:18:45 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • What's also disturbing is the JPII Familiaris Consortio language of "destroyed marriage," as though humans can put asunder what God bound together. Only death destroys a marriage!
    St. Isidore e-book library: https://isidore.co/calibre


    Offline LucasL

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 458
    • Reputation: +1/-4
    • Gender: Male
    The Synods Final Relatio: Adulterers in State of Grace!
    « Reply #5 on: October 24, 2015, 08:20:20 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Pope Leo XIII, Dum Multa (# 2), Dec. 24, 1902: “It follows then that the marriage of Christians when fully accomplished… cannot be dissolved for any reason other than the death of either spouse, according to the holy words: ‘What God has joined, let no man put asunder.’”

    Offline Nishant

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2126
    • Reputation: +1361/-80
    • Gender: Male
    The Synods Final Relatio: Adulterers in State of Grace!
    « Reply #6 on: October 25, 2015, 03:33:53 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I will wait till the entire relatio is translated, but a quick glance at some translated excerpts show, at least, that sodomy was not glorified, that communion for the divorced was not proposed or approved outright etc. For that, Deo Gratias. Link

    Let's look at the entire text when it becomes available.

    Quote from: Geremia
    But even in terms of actual graces, the Holy Ghost can grant or refuse to grant them to whosoever he chooses, so it's not always true "the Holy Spirit pours gifts and charisms in [all of] them for the good of all."


    That's a non sequitur. Without actual grace, there is no hope or possibility of conversion and return to sanctifying grace. Since the Holy Ghost wills "that all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth", He does not deny to adulterers the light and actual grace to repent of their sins and live in accord with the law of God. But it is terribly and wretchedly formulated, yes.
    "Never will anyone who says his Rosary every day become a formal heretic ... This is a statement I would sign in my blood." St. Montfort, Secret of the Rosary. I support the FSSP, the SSPX and other priests who work for the restoration of doctrinal orthodoxy and liturgical orthopraxis in the Church. I accept Vatican II if interpreted in the light of Tradition and canonisations as an infallible declaration that a person is in Heaven. Sedevacantism is schismatic and Ecclesiavacantism is heretical.

    Offline Gregory I

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1544
    • Reputation: +657/-105
    • Gender: Male
    The Synods Final Relatio: Adulterers in State of Grace!
    « Reply #7 on: October 25, 2015, 04:12:31 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • SO what do we think of Sedeprivationism fellas? He's got the seat but not the power?
    'Take care not to resemble the multitude whose knowledge of God's will only condemns them to more severe punishment.'

    -St. John of Avila


    Offline donkath

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 213
    • Reputation: +149/-3
    • Gender: Female
      • h
    Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.

    Offline 2Vermont

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3901
    • Reputation: +1761/-138
    • Gender: Female
    The Synods Final Relatio: Adulterers in State of Grace!
    « Reply #9 on: October 25, 2015, 08:18:48 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Thought this was pretty good too even though it is from Church Militant.  It discusses the use of the terms "discernment" and "internal forum".  the ambiguity makes it clear to me that this is the formal opening of the door.

    http://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/final-relatio-an-opening-for-communion-to-divorced-remarried#.VivVQOm3fiE.twitter

    If any one saith, that the ceremonies, vestments, and outward signs, which the Catholic Church makes use of in the celebration of masses, are incentives to impiety, rather than offices of piety; let him be anathema. - Council of Trent

    Offline TKGS

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4304
    • Reputation: +3667/-212
    • Gender: Male
    The Synods Final Relatio: Adulterers in State of Grace!
    « Reply #10 on: October 25, 2015, 01:32:47 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • It looks like the synod's final document is the worst possible outcome.

    It appears to be vague enough so that liberals can, as happened in the wake of Vatican 2, do anything they want and point to the synod document as their authority while the conservatives point to the same document and declare that nothing has been changed.  

    All the while, the bishops of the Conciliar church (you know, the "authentic magisterium" who have the authority to "authentically interpret" the synod's document) will carry out the liberal agenda and conservatives will complain that what the entire Conciliar church is doing is merely an "abuse".


    Offline 2Vermont

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3901
    • Reputation: +1761/-138
    • Gender: Female
    The Synods Final Relatio: Adulterers in State of Grace!
    « Reply #11 on: October 25, 2015, 01:35:30 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: TKGS
    It looks like the synod's final document is the worst possible outcome.

    It appears to be vague enough so that liberals can, as happened in the wake of Vatican 2, do anything they want and point to the synod document as their authority while the conservatives point to the same document and declare that nothing has been changed.  

    All the while, the bishops of the Conciliar church (you know, the "authentic magisterium" who have the authority to "authentically interpret" the synod's document) will carry out the liberal agenda and conservatives will complain that what the entire Conciliar church is doing is merely an "abuse".


    Boy, thay are good at what they do, aren't they?

    Yes, I look forward to seeing what Cardinal Burke will say about this...probably nothing much.
    If any one saith, that the ceremonies, vestments, and outward signs, which the Catholic Church makes use of in the celebration of masses, are incentives to impiety, rather than offices of piety; let him be anathema. - Council of Trent

    Offline Charlemagne

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1406
    • Reputation: +2074/-14
    • Gender: Male
    The Synods Final Relatio: Adulterers in State of Grace!
    « Reply #12 on: October 25, 2015, 01:55:24 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: RomanCatholic1953
    HERESY

    BURN THEM AT THE STAKE.


    They'll burn eventually - after they've done Satan's work by corrupting countless souls.
    "Kindness is for fools! They [modernists] want to be treated with oil, soap, and caresses, but they ought to be beaten with fists. In a duel, you don't count or measure the blows, you strike as you can. War is not made with charity. It is a struggle, a duel." -- Pope St. Pius X

    Offline LucasL

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 458
    • Reputation: +1/-4
    • Gender: Male
    The Synods Final Relatio: Adulterers in State of Grace!
    « Reply #13 on: October 25, 2015, 04:11:47 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Let's be honest here. It does not matter whatever this document says, adulterers and divorced are treated like everyone else  in Vat II sect since Paul VI

    during B 16 and Francis satanists and freemansons are welcome to receive sacraments, why not divorced?

    I have pictures of freemansons in the Church every sunday and I sent to Rome and they say "The Church should welcome everyone"

    So... let me say again: it doesn't matter. We have to read the new documents to see how bad the situation is but let's not fool ourselves thinking that prior to that things were different.

    Offline LucasL

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 458
    • Reputation: +1/-4
    • Gender: Male
    The Synods Final Relatio: Adulterers in State of Grace!
    « Reply #14 on: October 25, 2015, 04:15:24 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • The most diabolical thing is that divorced etc think that they are being saved by the VII sect.
    And they believe for so long in the VII sect that when you tell that whatever he learned and heard during all those years is not the Catholic Church they are not ready to see the truth and start to yell at you

    That's the most diabolical thing that the VII Antipopes are doing... they are leading millions of souls to hell every year and when only when they arrive in Hell they will understand the situation and will cry: "Why did they do this to me?" then it's going to be too late.

    We have to tell every soul we can to stay away from Vatican II , it's a matter of life and eternal death in Hell!

     

    Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16