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Author Topic: The “Strongest” Argument Against The Papacy (Pope Vigilius) - Refuted  (Read 2737 times)

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Offline Kephapaulos

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  • Perhaps that is why the Lord spared St. Thomas from ridicule at the Second Council of Lyons, even though his arguments would have been sound regardless of if he was using forged sources without any fault of his own. It came to St. Bonaventure to resolve things at least for a time with the Eastern Orthodox. Both saints being good and close friends died within months of each other and could laugh at our quibbles over these things in heaven. 
    "Non nobis, Domine, non nobis; sed nomini tuo da gloriam..." (Ps. 113:9)

    Offline ihsv

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  • The book that many of your provided quotes are from is from Johann Joseph Ignaz von Döllinger's The Pope and the Council, which was an attack on the Papacy and Vatican I. 

    As a reminder, Döllinger was excommunicated because of his intransigent opposition to Vatican I and it's definition of Papal Infallibility.

    If you had even a shred of intellectual honesty, or even basic Catholic sense, you would looked at your sources before taking them as Gospel and using them in this manner.

    If anyone wants to see the kinds of sources LeDeg is using to bolster his argument, you can check out Döllinger's book here:  https://archive.org/details/popecouncil00dl/page/n3/mode/2up

    Confiteor unum baptisma in remissionem peccatorum. - Nicene Creed


    Online Ladislaus

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  • LeDeg, you have lost all credibility.
    ...
    Incredible.

    IMO, he needs to explain why he continues to attack Catholic dogma on the papacy.

    LeDeg, are you in fact John Pontrello?

    Without a reasonable explanation, he should be banned as a pertinacious heretic, since he's been corrected on this matter repeatedly.

    Online Ladislaus

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  • I don't for a minute think you're a traditional Catholic, but rather a mole who seeks to undermine and sow doubt and confusion.  This bears out when your previous posts are reviewed, as well. 

    I'm beginning to think that he's either John Pontrello himself or else someone associated with him.

    Offline Yeti

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  • This was a really strong video and in my opinion is worth your time. More ammunition against the eastern schismatics.
    .

    Who are these guys? The guy wearing a baseball cap on backwards while talking about theology ... seriously??! He looks like Bazooka Joe! :laugh1:



    Online Ladislaus

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  • Who are these guys? The guy wearing a baseball cap on backwards while talking about theology ... seriously??! He looks like Bazooka Joe! :laugh1:

    Yeah, there seems to be a trend toward "trailer park theology" in modern social media.  Long gone are the days of brilliant and dignified clerics being on the air representing Catholic theology.  Sadly, given the state of modern seminaries, the Trailer Park Theologians are probably more qualified than most "priests" to speak about theology.



    These are the top theological minds in the Conciliar Church.


    Offline JJoseph

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  • Here are 15 Early Church proofs of the Primacy of Peter/Papal Supremacy to share with Orthodox/Trads tempted to lapse: https://reasonstobechristian.com/f/15-early-church-proofs-of-petrine-primacy-or-roman-supremacy

    Quote
    1. Pope St. Clement demonstrates Universal Jurisdiction even before St. John the Apostle’s Death!
    Even Protestant Historians marvel at how Pope St. Clement exercised Universal Jurisdiction before the Last Apostle had passed away! Here is the CE: "If any man", he says, "should be disobedient unto the words spoken by God through us, let them understand that they will entangle themselves in no slight transgression and danger" (Ep. 59). Moreover, he bids them "render obedience unto the things written by us through the Holy Spirit". The tone of authority which inspires the latter appears so clearly that [Protestant Historian J.B.] Lightfoot did not hesitate to speak of it as "the first step towards papal domination" (Clement 1:70). 
    Thus, at the very commencement of church history, before the last survivor of the Apostles had passed away, we find a Bishop of Rome, himself a disciple of St. Peter, intervening in the affairs of another Church and claiming to settle the matter by a decision spoken under the influence of the Holy Spirit. Such a fact admits of one explanation alone. It is that in the days when the Apostolic teaching was yet fresh in men's minds the universal Church recognized in the Bishop of Rome the office of supreme head.”
    2. St. Ignatius of Antioch – a Petrine See – teaches that the Roman Church presides over the brotherhood in charity.
    The CE continues: “A few years later (about 107) St. Ignatius of Antioch, in the opening of his letter to the Roman Church, refers to its presiding over all other Churches. He addresses it as "presiding over the brotherhood of love [prokathemene tes agapes]”
    Orthodox Priest Fr. Nicholas Afanasieff admits: “Unity of faith still reigns within the Orthodox Church, but without union in love; and neither exists between the Orthodox and the Roman Catholic Churches. Why is this? Surely because the mind of the Church has become unaware that the Church of God should be directed by a local church, one church among all the others. They all possess catholicity; but priority of authority, by giving witness about events in the Church’s life, is something that belongs only to the church “which presides in love.” [2]
    3. St. Irenaeus of Lyons – familiar with the Tradition of both East and West – declares that every local Church must agree with the Roman Church because of Her Superior Authority
    Saint Irenaeus most plainly teaches: “the very great, the very ancient, and universally known Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul; as also [by pointing out] the faith preached to men, which comes down to our time by means of the successions of the bishops. For it is a matter of necessity that every Church should agree with this Church, on account of its pre-eminent authority” [3]
    An astonishing early proof of Roman Primacy long before anyone even spoke of the Church of Constantinople or other local Churches. That local Church, of Constantinople, and every other local Church, as Fr. Afanasieff mentioned in point 2, and St. Irenaeus teaches here most explicitly in point 3, must be in agreement with the Church of Rome, on account of the latter’s pre-eminent or Superior Authority. Here you have it, as clearly as words can make it, that the Early Church recognized the Pre-Eminent Authority of the Roman Church.