Dear fellow members of Cath Info,

I really do think that what I wrote is accurate for the reason that I prayed about it for years - and I believe it does make sense.

Please see this URL website link:

http://www.christorchaos.com/?q=content/our-divine-redeemer-has-entered-his-passion-0

...
"Having entered into the Passion of the Divine Redeemer, a Passion that is being experienced mystically by the Church Militant on earth during this time of utter apostasy and betrayal..."

I think that a problem with trying to prove one's point here is that it goes against a humble disposition and there is a certain Ill/Bad will that goes along with it - that destroys peace among those who are arguing.

Glory to God in the highest: and on earth peace to men of good will. (Luke Chapter 2:14)
Every good action begins with GOOD WILL and makes us friends with God and on our way to Heaven.

And so it is also true that prideful actions are fueled by Ill/Bad WILL and take us away from God and ruin peace and just causes friction, stress and confusion among us.

It is difficult to be 100% accurate in these details when we do not currently have a good hierarchy that corrects us and guides us.

Sincerely and Kind Regards in +J M J,
Roger
(571) 319-6094

Roger, I don’t think it’s wise to post your phone number online.

I noticed the expression "hideous disciplines". Expressive of how many things may happen by "constraint", as Aristotle would say, rather than by nature.

"The Mystical City of God - by Venerable Mary of Agreda - we are told in Chapter XXVI - about the resurrection of Our Lord Jesus Christ, that: The divine soul of Christ our Redeemer remained in limbo ... returned to the Sepulchre ..."

The Apostle's Creed says he descended into Hell, and I've never thought to analyze it too much. I have a notion that things don't change in relation to the infinite anyway. Things only change in relation to other things, proportions and so forth, aspects along "the indefinite dyad" so to speak, so the blessed fate of Jesus is as secure as anything else can be. "I am from above" he said to the Jєωs and Pharisees "but you are from below". Some things never change, and again certainly not in relation to the infinite, but other things do change along the indefinite dyad, and so Jonah in his time was in the belly of the whale.

There is a belief that Limbo is the first layer of hell where there is no pain but only separation from God.  That would make both the Apostles Creed and the "Mystical City of God" both true.

While I don't think the Church can ever be officially "dead", and I can't remember any sources right now...  I do remember that there is a lot of tradition based upon the idea that the Church would go through a sort of crucifixion and limbo at Her most trying time and that afterward a Great Restoration would occur.  I personally believe that this will be the Age of Mary when the Jєωs are all supposed to convert.

Dear fellow members of Cath Info,

I really do think that what I wrote is accurate for the reason that I prayed about it for years - and I believe it does make sense.

I think that a problem with trying to prove one's point here is that it goes against a humble disposition and there is a certain Ill/Bad will that goes along with it - that destroys peace among those who are arguing.

And so it is also true that prideful actions are fueled by Ill/Bad WILL and take us away from God and ruin peace and just causes friction, stress and confusion among us.

Roger, 

I sympathize with DecemRationis scratching his head about your post here...  

Maybe you can elaborate a bit more on the statements above?  I don't sense any bad will or friction in this thread...but I could be wrong.      

You believe you're accurate because you prayed about it... and you believe it does make sense.  But does that necessarily make it true?

Do you agree or disagree with the statements I've provided from the popes, regarding the nature of the Church?

Do you believe, like Pope Leo XIII does,  Saint Augustine when he says the Church "...cannot even be shaken..."?  

Without qualification...  Did you read the teachings from the Popes?

"Without qualification" means that one has made a statement which admits of no exception nor consideration of the subject under a different aspect.

115. Q. What is the Church?
A. The Church is the congregation of all those who profess the faith of
Christ, partake of the same Sacraments, and are governed by their lawful
pastors under one visible Head.

Q. 70.  How many branches or parts of the Church are there?  A. There are three branches or parts of the Church, called the Church Militant, the Church Suffering, and the Church Triumphant.
Q. 72.  What do we mean by the “Church Suffering”?  A. By the “Church Suffering” we mean the faithful in Purgatory, who are being purified from the last stains and consequences of their sins.

(Taken from the Baltimore Catechism 1 & 3)

 So the statement, "She cannot, or will not ever endure any kind of suffering", applied with no qualification, to the entirety of the Church, is clearly incorrect.
 Now in the context of this thread I'm sure that you are thinking of the Church Militant and whether She can endure suffering.
 Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the confusion seems to be over the definition of the term 'suffering' and what it implies. The common definition is 'to experience or be subjected to something bad or unpleasant'. You seem to hold that 'suffering' always implies an imperfection but I don't think that, rightly understood, it does. Our Lord truly suffered, yet was, is, and always will be, perfect. Our Blessed Mother suffered, but who can find a fault in her? Is our Lord's Church greater than Her Master?

"Without qualification" means that one has made a statement which admits of no exception nor consideration of the subject under a different aspect.

Scratching my head here, Emile...  Roger's paper is clearly discussing the restoration and resurrection of the Catholic Church.  That's what I addressed in my comments. 

What other aspect could there possibly be? 

So the statement, "She cannot, or will not ever endure any kind of suffering", applied with no qualification, to the entirety of the Church, is clearly incorrect.

In one of my posts, I posed several questions to you and other posters who believe the Church can suffer.  Why not address those and we can discuss.

Now in the context of this thread I'm sure that you are thinking of the Church Militant and whether She can endure suffering.

You are incorrect, I'm not thinking of the Church Militant. 

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the confusion seems to be over the definition of the term 'suffering' and what it implies.

This is incorrect also.  I started off my initial comments discussing how we need to be particular and specific when we discuss the Church.  Hence the reason I posted the teachings, about the Church, from the popes.  You haven't addressed any of the popes teachings either... 

The common definition is 'to experience or be subjected to something bad or unpleasant'. You seem to hold that 'suffering' always implies an imperfection but I don't think that, rightly understood, it does.

If you were to look at my reply to Miser Peccator you will see that I have a greater understanding of the word suffer.  Did you read any of my posts before replying to me?

Our Lord truly suffered, yet was, is, and always will be, perfect. Our Blessed Mother suffered, but who can find a fault in her? Is our Lord's Church greater than Her Master?

You also said the Church may be obscured, much like our Lord's divinity was obscured during the passion...

Eimle - "But, just like our Lord in His passion, Her Divine character may be obscured for a time..."

You never addressed the quote from Pope Gregory XIV, who explicitly teaches the opposite. 

Pope Gregory XVI, Mirari Vos, #10
Therefore, it is obviously absurd and injurious to propose a certain “restoration and regeneration” for her as though necessary for her safety and growth, as if she could be considered subject to defect or obscuration or other misfortune.


On to the Baltimore Catechism....
 
The Church Militant, Suffering, and Triumphant are referring to the members of the Catholic Church.  Which, of course, are susceptible to suffering, exception being made of the Triumphant, who have indeed suffered in the world but now rejoice with Almighty God in heaven.

You have reduced the Church to a human institution...which is grievous and pernicious error, according to Pope Leo XIII.       

Pope Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum
From this it follows that those who arbitrarily conjure up and picture to themselves a hidden and invisible Church are in grievous and pernicious error: as also are those who regard the Church as a human institution...".

If you would like to go back and address the teachings from the popes, please do so, I'd appreciate the discussion. 

I wonder if you actually took the time to review my posts...