Quote from: MyrnaM

I am also confused about who are the OLD SSPX and the New SSPX, it seems the OLD should be the ones who are Keeping the Faith, and the New SSPX are the ones that are going toward the New Church, is that correct?  Or is it the other way around?

Your former assumption is correct.

I do not attend a non-sede mass nor do I seek low hanging fruit which to convince conclavism.

In fact, I greatly admire Bishop Williamson. The man went through Hell regarding the magic number, several countries banned him, exiled (under orders by the future Nope) from Argentina, he is a household name synonymous with nαzι. He is now verboten.

No other R&R high priest has the above qualifications.  The man is the real deal.

LOT - that comment was mainly referring to those R&R who dislike +Williamson.  Sedes generally are respectful of +Lefebvre.  

But, that comment also can apply to sedes.  It is not the popes place to tell us how to tie our shoes and comb our hair.  Popes have their own thorns to pluck.  

Quote from: Lover of Truth

I did not even read the post because the title itself was so repulsive.  More and more since bergolio people are trying to convince themselves, kind of like DePauw in the 60's.  

He's just gotta be Pope.  He's just gotta.  

Believe it or not, some of us (maybe more than a few) don't really spend a lot of time worrying about whether Francis is pope or not. I get the impression that Sedes think that non-Sedes are always trying to convince themselves that the Pope is really the Pope. I don't think that's necessarily the case. Is Pope Francis a modernist who is trying to change the Church? Yes. But our Lord did not guarantee that we'd never have a Pope who would hold heretical views.

I, for one, don't obsess over it. But I often think that some Sedevacantists obsess over the issue, and rarely think of anything else. Maybe I'm wrong about that.

Quote from: St Ignatius

Quote from: Croixalist

What I find kind of interesting is how willing SVs are to take advantage of non-SV chapels, churches, and forums. I mean CathInfo has always been an SSPX-aligned forum and yet it's overrun by some fairly hardcore dogmatic SV's. The reality for a SV who wants to be 100% true to their convictions means that most of them will be forced to leave their Sunday obligation unfulfilled.

Am I right guys? How many of you have access to SV priests and chapels?

I was a faithful supporter of the "Old SSPX" for nearly 25 years. I must say, I was very thankful that there where SV's chapels nearby of the SSPX parish I was a member of. I couldn't have imagined spending all my time arguing about this subject after every Mass.

It's lean times for everyone, but I can just imagine how bone dry it must be for the average SV. My heart goes out to them a bit. Though, when I first started going to an SSPX chapel, I was amazed at how many SVs didn't actually go to Mass but hung out in the basement and get into arguments with anyone who would listen.

Quote from: MyrnaM

Quote from: Croixalist

It's lean times for everyone, but I can just imagine how bone dry it must be for the average SV. My heart goes out to them a bit. Though, when I first started going to an SSPX chapel, I was amazed at how many SVs didn't actually go to Mass but hung out in the basement and get into arguments with anyone who would listen.

Trying to figure out if you are bragging or complaining about people who hold to the SV position are attending Mass at YOUR chapel.   Sounds a bit exclusive!

Also confused about your remark after stating the SV attend Mass but now you say they don't attend Mass just hang out in the basement and argue with whom?  Are they arguing with the SSPX people, and why are the SSPX people not attending Mass instead of arguing with the SV folks. Where do you go to Mass anyway or is this a joke?

Sorry but you lost me.  Don't take it personal, I confuse easily especially when I try to understand SSPX today!  

The basement is where people can gather before, after, or in between Masses if they so choose. It's what passes for socializing. And yes there were men who only hung out there and would hit people up with a barrage of arguments about why there is no Pope, yet they couldn't bring themselves to go to any Masses. I don't see this much at my chapel anymore thankfully, but we have lost a ton of good people since 2012. Small wonder that!

There's two ways that a sede can lose their ability to truly criticize R&R, and that is to attend non-sede Masses or to generally camp out or squat in non-sede venues with the sole purpose of arguing others into a home-aloner type situation. Of course I have issues theologically with the position and that's why I won't be going to an SV church anytime soon, but I do hope the situation turns around so that one day the well-intentioned of us can once again meet at the same places in unity and peace.

Otherwise, they're stuck going to Masses with an antipope in the Una cuм. I would imagine that would be pretty tough for a sede bent against all compromise. But then you have the ultra hardline Dimond Bros. who attend VII-aligned Eastern Rite Masses. 100% dogmatic Sedevacantism is about as exclusive as one can possibly get. If you're not there yet, take this as a heads up. Nothing more nothing less.

First and foremost, I have an issue with these major hypocrite dogmatic sedes who use everybody else's infrastructure to do very little else but argue and complain... about said infrastructure. I more than understand and have sympathy for those who are so scandalized by the current situation that they can't help but hold the opinion. The problem always comes in when they insist on ripping into the R&R thing like it's completely off base. It's really hard to listen to that when they literally have no place to call their own. That being said, every SSPX chapel is one liberal priest away from disaster.

I have my own take on the situation, but I know it really doesn't matter until the Church hierarchy rights itself. How far can the Church be co-opted without defecting? How long can we go without a Pope who would give his life for the Faith? I don't know and I don't want to find out!

For SV's every year that passes brings about another dilemma about the pool of Cardinals who might be eligible if they converted and came out of retirement to hold a conclave. Either way, we're all floating out there hoping a waterfall isn't just around the bend. We can hear the roar of the rapids and no one is too far to remain unaffected. This isn't a situation one can ever afford to be too overconfident. It's the capital "C" Crisis, and short of the Antichrist himself, it's the worst possible situation the Church has ever faced.

It's easy to forget how leaving all this up to private judgment is not how it normally ought to be. We need our Pope and our Bishops to do their job and start sorting out the various theological issues that have flooded the our "safe" little life rafts. I don't have all the answers to this, but we've been listing for a long time and we're only going to take on more water until the capital "R" Restoration. We need a major miracle. Or two. Or twenty-two. We need the Fatima Pope, the Angelic Shepherd and the GCM to name a few.

Though, when I first started going to an SSPX chapel, I was amazed at how many SVs didn't actually go to Mass but hung out in the basement and get into arguments with anyone who would listen.

Quote from: Croixalist

Though, when I first started going to an SSPX chapel, I was amazed at how many SVs didn't actually go to Mass but hung out in the basement and get into arguments with anyone who would listen.

I find it incredibly hard to believe that sedevacantists drove to your SSPX chapel in order to NOT go to Mass.