Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: Fiorenza on July 05, 2025, 03:11:18 AM
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What would you define the Traditional Spirit as?
By comparing it with Vatican II, we can perhaps make some observations
* The Spirit of Vatican II is very feminine
* The Spirit of Vatican II is doubtful
* The Spirit of Vatican II has foreign elements, such as mandatory ecuмenism
* The Spirit of Vatican II apologizes for Catholic action in the past that it did not once apologize for
* The Spirit of Vatican II seems to be imitating another religion that is not Catholic
* The Spirit of Vatican II protestantizes
* The Spirit of Vatican II if left to its own devices would appear to terminate in irreligion
* The Spirit of Vatican II means clergy are constantly in defensive crouch
* The Spirit of Vatican II has created a Church government where the Papal Office is manipulated by non-Catholic powers (normally outside the walls, now within it seems)
* The Spirit of Vatican II needs constant alignment or correction otherwise it seems to automatically veer into heresy
* The Traditional Spirit is masculine
* The Traditional Spirit is more certain
* The Traditional Spirit does not seek to compromise, but instead to convert
* The Traditional Spirit defines itself in contrast to heresy
* The Traditional Spirit increases religion
* The Traditional Spirit in the clergy is a true missionary spirit
* The Traditional Spirit is still not yet powerful enough for government ?
* The Traditional Spirit unfortunately must deal with factionalism
It would be interesting to know what others' thoughts are...
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What is feminine about VII? Never heard or thought of if like that before.
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What is feminine about VII? Never heard or thought of if like that before.
I imagine maybe he meant "effeminate"? :confused:.
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Effeminate would refer to a man who has the characteristics of a woman.
Feminine means a Spirit that leads to lay governance led by women, altar girls, soft decision making, immodest dress in Churches, weak liturgy, the encouraging of divorce and non-married relationships.
These are issues that feminists have pushed.
What do we have now? Two nuns running all the religious in the world (DICLSAL).
So it is more than just effeminacy. Feminism would like to make the world Female. So of course it results in effeminate males. That is the net result of mixing the genders.
Feminine - Feminism - Effeminate - Sodomy
One has to know a little about the theology of Jezebel and the Whore of Babylon. Along with the ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ prostitutes associated with the goddess cult (1 Kings 14:24 and 1 Kings 15:12).
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ST. IGNATIUS RETREAT HOUSE
RIDGEFIELD CT
LETTER TO FRIENDS AND BENEFACTORS – JUNE 1998. *
Dear Fellow Soldier in Christ,
Briefly, in this letter, we will enter into the control room of Vatican II and there study for a moment how it happened. Let us consider how the Church exploded overnight and how we've gotten to where we are.
It 's an important question because presently more and more conservative priests are coming forward who intend to show the continuity of Tradition and the teachings of Vatican II. This means that more and more material will be coming your way to tell you that Vatican II is traditional and that as a result, every form of resistance to Vatican II has been and remains illegitimate. Concretely, while it probably will not amount to the closing down of the family of Tradition with its seminaries, chapels and schools, it will mean wearing down the defenses of the weak. This renewed campaign risks to disturb the faith of the little ones who are novices in this 30 year war. Remember, it is not just a question of fighting for the Traditional Mass alone, but for the Faith itself.
Two ideas met and clashed at Vatican II and with them two entire systems of thought: Tolerance carrying with it the Catholic superstructure of the Doctrine of the Kingship of Christ vs. "Right to be free from Coercion” carrying with it the creed of the many declarations of the rights of man since the French Revolution.
Picture tolerance as a Patriarchal fully robed Bishop, mitred and crosier in hand. He stands and watches over his people, seeing them surrounded by false ideologies. He looks to his rulers who govern all these people in the temporal domain and he says to them: "Error you may tolerate to preserve the peace of your nation, but you must safeguard in every amenable way the Divine rights of the Church Jesus Christ founded in His Blood." Tolerance is the Catholic way of dealing with errors that Prudence dictates can not be removed by other means. Tolerance safeguards both the demands of Truth and of Prudence.
Meanwhile, standing against this wise disposition of Catholicism, the "right to be free from coercion " represents the idea that the fundamental dignity of man is based in and on his liberty to choose for himself. Without this possibility, he is not a man. Thus, no one can force him to act against his conscience. Therefore, authority must give him full liberty of that conscience. The primary duty of both civil and religious authority, then, is to respect that liberty and so ensure in the least that it is free from all coercion. This line of thinking is the meat and potatoes of Liberalism, the doctrine which teaches that liberty is man's inherent fundamental dignity.
In Vatican II's control room, tolerance and the Catholic doctrinal superstructure were jettisoned from the get- go. It was thrown out with the other preparatory schemas that had been prepared for two years prior to the Council. In its stead came the conciliar docuмent Dignitatis Humanae. In the key passages that follow, you will be careful to note how the right to religious freedom has completely supplanted the notion of tolerance. (Numbers indicate paragraph numbers in the docuмent.)
[ 1. Contemporary man is becoming increasingly conscious of the dignity of the human person…
2. The Vatican Council declares that the human person has a right to religious freedom. Freedom of this kind means that all men should be immune from coercion on the part of individuals, social groups, and every human power so that, within due limits, nobody is forced to act against his convictions nor is anyone to be restrained from acting in accordance with his convictions in religious matters in private or in public, alone or in associations with others. The Council further declares that the right to religious freedom is based on the very dignity of the human person as known through the revealed word of God and by reason itself.
9. The Declaration of this Vatican Council on man 's right to religious freedom is based on the dignity of the person, the demands of which have become more freely known to human reason through centuries of experience. Furthermore, this doctrine of freedom is rooted in divine revelation, and for this reason Christians are bound to respect it all the more conscientiously. ]
The Council here declares in so many words the same thing as declared:
• The French National Assembly in articles 1, 2 and 4 of the Declaration of the Rights of man in 1789,
• The Congress of the United States of America in Amendment I of the Bill of Rights in 1789,
• The United Nations in articles l, 2 and 18 of its Universal Declaration of the Rights of Man in 1948.
That the Council gratuitously states that this is derived from Revelation is beside the point. The main point is that the Council has adopted a system of thought that it is not indigenous to Catholicism but on the contrary, is the very system of thought that has sought first to destroy and secondly to replace the Catholic Church. As for Christ's teaching of liberty, certainly every man is free to accept or reject the Gospel, but "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall be condemned. " (Mk. 16:16) God holds the last word and ultimate degree in coercion. The description of the Last Judgment is a salutary study in the matter.
Cutting through the politically correct semantics which would obfuscate the issue, let us get directly to the theological implications of adopting the "right to be free from coercion " system.
• In the first place, it means that liberty is an end in itself. But man was not created for his liberty, but for the greater honor and glory of God and to save his soul.
• In the second place, it means that man has a natural inherent right to error, and that the first duty of authority is to safeguard this right, regardless of its use, so long as the public good is left intact. But the perfection of man's mind is truth, so either the truth doesn't matter, or the principle is pure nonsense.
[ One may argue that there is a distinction between right to error and right to be free from coercion. Indeed there is, which is why the Council had to formulate the latter, since the former would have been too grossly non-Catholic for even a malicious liberal to pretend otherwise. But the distinction changes nothing concerning the shift from a Catholic system of thought to a modern one, in whose vocabulary the right to be free from coercion and the liberty of conscience are inseparable. ]
• In the third place, it means that the first duty of the preacher is to respect the dignity of man as man. Should he wish to convert him, he must enter into a meaningful dialogue.
Beyond these immediate implications which flow directly from the formulated principle, there are far graver ones that affect the dogmatic structure of the Catholic Church. Whereas the liberal system of thought adopted by the Council takes its starting point from liberty and human dignity, Divine Revelation and Catholic Dogma takes its starting point from the Divinity of Christ. Christ is true God and true man, and "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall be condemned. " As a consequence, the Mystical Body of Christ, His Catholic Church is Divine by communication with Him. Therefore:
["The Holy Roman Church believes, professes and preaches that "no one remaining outside the Catholic Church, not just pagans, but also J*ws or heretics or schismatics, can become partakers of eternal life; but they will go to the 'everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels ' unless before the end of life they are joined to the Church. For the union with the body of the Church is of such importance that the Sacraments of the Church are helpful to salvation only for those remaining in it (...) And no one can be saved, no matter how much alms he has given, even if he sheds his blood for the name of Christ, unless he remains in the bosom
and unity of the Catholic Church. " (Council of Florence, 1442, DS 1351) This fact of the Divinity of the Church includes its necessity for salvation and therefore imposes the correlative obligations to believe and obey upon the whole human race. In the face of this mystery of Faith, to preach the rights of man is tantamount to denying the Divinity of the Church and its Divinely constituted authority.
Don't be dismayed by the strong apostolic vigor of the Council of Florence. St. Paul said exactly the same thing when he said: "And if I should deliver my body to be burned and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. " (I Cor 13:3) The Church infallibly teaches that Divine Charity and Catholic unity are one and the same.
All else in Vatican II and the post-conciliar Church are consequences and outpourings of this doctrinal revolution. From Ecuмenical movement to interreligious dialogue, from novus ordo missae to priestless communion services, it all springs from the doctrinal exodus from Catholic Doctrine to the system of Modernity.
One ironic and very scary consequence is that, with the removal of Catholic authority, agnostic civil authority steps in as the sole arbiter in religious matters. Hearken Vatican II Dignitatis Humanae #8
[ "Furthermore, since civil society has the right to protect itself against possible abuses committed in the name of religious freedom the responsibility of providing such protection rests especially with the civil authority. "] When Traditional Catholics are seen as a threat to the public good either by homeschooling or by deficient values clarification, they can't look to the Pope for protection, Vatican II has turned them over to the government without respect to Catholic truth.
The conservative priests I mentioned earlier, who have adopted the mission of showing how Vatican II is in conformity with Tradition, will be ready to do battle with us on this point. Their first rejoinder is: "You have adopted the Protestant principle of private interpretation. You interpret the Council as being in contradiction with the past." We do not decline the combat with them. We respond that it is the Faith that judges Vatican II and the fruits bear out this judgment. Worse, Pope John Paul II has endlessly given the authentic interpretation to Vatican II and always in the sense of the Declarations of the Rights of man.
The real battle is in the trenches. Words are lost on the present generation. The argument of deeds that are the fruit of sound doctrine and assiduous prayer is the strategy of Christ today. Let us continue strong in the Faith.
"Be thou faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life. " (Apoc. 2, -10)
May God Bless you,
Fr. P.
Prior
St. Ignatius Retreat House
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* Unofficial transcript
Posted on the Feast of the Seven Holy Brothers, 2025 AD.
Many manly Catholic soldiers should fight for their Faith!
Pray.