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Offline Pelele

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White Smoke question
« on: October 26, 2013, 09:40:46 PM »
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  • Had it ever happened before in an election that there was white smoke and then no pope came out like in 1958?

    Offline 2Vermont

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    White Smoke question
    « Reply #1 on: October 27, 2013, 07:47:22 AM »
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  • Good question.  I don't believe so.  It's my understanding that the dark smoke is due to damp straws.  In order for there to have been white smoke, there had to be dry straws.  How this could have possibly been screwed up is beyond me.  I think it's more likely that some damp straws could have gotten in when they should have been dry, but the other way around??

    Definitely strange indeed.
    "For there is not any thing secret that shall not be made manifest, nor hidden, that shall not be known and come abroad."- Luke 8:17


    Offline Ladislaus

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    White Smoke question
    « Reply #2 on: October 27, 2013, 09:04:02 AM »
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  • While the smoke color thing isn't by itself a definitive indicator regarding the Siri Thesis, it was the fact that this was in CONTEXT of all the other indicators (I listed about two dozen in the Siri thread).  It's just another dot.  On its own, you could say, hey, perhaps the "wet" straw just wasn't wet enough, or that it had dried out too much or something.  But people from within the conclave were waving out the window, and word was given to the media from inside that indeed a Pope had been elected.  Vatican officials (plus Swiss guard) got into position to welcome the new pope.  In recent "conclaves" they've taken to ringing the bells in addition to the smoke to prevent confusion.


    Offline Pelele

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    White Smoke question
    « Reply #3 on: October 27, 2013, 12:18:50 PM »
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  • Yes, it didn't look like it was just some "screw up" at all: but i wondered if this like happened all the time in the past because people can say oh this has already happened before, its no big deal and doesn't mean anything. Taking into context all the other things its just clear someone else was chosen before Roncalli.

    So the question is, how the people who know and believe this, still consider John 23 and his "successors" as real Popes?

    I don't know what to think about the so-called "FBI info".

    I think it was selfish to prefer the entire Catholic world would suffer, billions, than your entire family.

    He should have sounded the horn and denounced them all, pretended he was going to oblige with them and all and then bam, denounce them in public.

    But i guess this all had to happen and there was nothing to do.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    White Smoke question
    « Reply #4 on: October 27, 2013, 02:31:30 PM »
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  • I consider the FBI info to be very credible.

    Paul Williams doesn't make a big deal about the issue, just mentions it in passing and doesn't use it to question the validity of Roncalli's election.

    Paul Williams cites specific documents with specific names and specific dates (including the declassification date).  Sounds like a stretch to say that he would just make that up out of the blue.

    I personally went to the National Archives, got a researcher pass, then was told that the State Department docs from that era were moved to Archives II (in Maryland).  So I went there and went through many boxes of stuff from that era (with multiple folders in each box) but could not find the documents.  There did appear to be items missing from the folders, since there were even these placeholders in there (you put those in there while you take a page to go photocopy).  I'm guessing that these things were only copies and not the originals.  Lots of very interesting stuff in there, but drew a blank on the documents cited by Williams in his book.  It would have been INCREDIBLY easy for me to remove and/or destroy these documents.  You weren't watched that closely while going through them.  I would only have had to take a page, pretend I'm going over to the copy machine, and put both the document and the copy in my personal folder (as if both were just copies).


     

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