Catholic Info

Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: Luker on October 22, 2013, 12:24:02 AM

Title: The Siri Thesis
Post by: Luker on October 22, 2013, 12:24:02 AM
Hi all: I read the book "Nikita Roncalli" that has been linked to here on Cathinfo and found it quite interesting.  It mentioned some of the odd things that happened during the 1958 and 1963 conclaves and offered the theory that Cardinal Siri was elected but forced to resign under severe duress to make way for the 'masonic' choice of Roncalli.  In investigating this a little further I discovered this site:

http://www.thepopeinred.com/

It certainly offered some interesting information, but nothing I could find that would be conclusive.  I have to admit to more than half wanting this to be true.  Everything I read on Cardinal Siri confirms that he was staunchly orthodox and anti-communist.  Just the man to lead the Church after Pius XII...

However, that site links a lot of material off another site that at least seems to be connected, CathInfo or something and that was when things got weird.  I can't tell what trad group they are related to but they seem to hate all other trads even more (if possible) than the Vat II church.  I have to say my antennae started twitching immediately.  Nobody was spared their very uncharitable articles (that seemed quite light on hard evidence) ++Lefebvre, +Sanborn/Fr Cekada, CMRI, MHFM, pretty much nobody in traddom escaped their wrath, heck I even saw something on Cathinfo's own Matthew!

Who are these guys? Are they some kind of traditional Catholic group? They must be pretty small, I don't think I have heard of them before  :confused1:

Luke
Title: The Siri Thesis
Post by: 2Vermont on October 22, 2013, 04:12:51 AM
Wait, there is someone out there more uncharitable than the Dimond Brothers??? (MHFM)

Title: The Siri Thesis
Post by: Quasimodo on October 22, 2013, 06:57:46 AM
Quote from: Luker

Who are these guys? Are they some kind of traditional Catholic group? They must be pretty small, I don't think I have heard of them before  :confused1:

Luke

Apparently these guys are him:(http://www.fighthatred.com/images/stories/hobson%20editor-tcw.jpg) Mr David Hobson

Here is a link to a disapproving article about him and his sites:


http://www.fighthatred.com/web-of-hate/fundamentalists/950-websites-of-hatred-constructed-by-david-hobson-of-minnetonka-mn
Title: The Siri Thesis
Post by: Mithrandylan on October 22, 2013, 07:38:14 AM
You used to not be able to link to Hobson's site(s) on CI.

Stay away.
Title: The Siri Thesis
Post by: Luker on October 22, 2013, 10:07:13 AM
Well it looks like the name of that place has been censored and changed to Cathinfo.  So I will leave it alone.  But yes I will certainly stay away from that place apparently just run by one guy?!?! What an odd place, just goes to show you that absolutely anyone can start a website or groups of them.

I will chalk this experience up to the 'twilight zone' of traddom...

Luke
Title: The Siri Thesis
Post by: parentsfortruth on October 22, 2013, 11:10:42 AM
Quote from: Mithrandylan
You used to not be able to link to Hobson's site(s) on CI.

Stay away.


Hobgoblin is a fraud. Please avoid all his material. He's a pathological liar.
Title: The Siri Thesis
Post by: Jalapeno on October 22, 2013, 01:25:08 PM
 :shocked:

Someone like David Hobson calls himself a Catholic even after attacking every trad group there is and even many private individuals? I guess if I live long enough maybe I'll stop being shocked.
Title: The Siri Thesis
Post by: Matto on October 22, 2013, 01:40:25 PM
That's one of David Hobson's websites.
Title: The Siri Thesis
Post by: Cantarella on October 22, 2013, 01:42:36 PM
Please do your soul a favor and stay away from lunatics.
Title: The Siri Thesis
Post by: Jalapeno on October 22, 2013, 03:04:21 PM
And yet David Hobson does indeed run his own network of websites dedicated to libel and slander. So what if the article was posted by a right-wing terrorist organization? Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

And your appeal to the FBI is flawed. Who do you think runs the FBI? And you also appeal to the Jewish ACLU?
Title: The Siri Thesis
Post by: Jalapeno on October 22, 2013, 03:34:41 PM
Quote
Hobson has constructed at least another 11 websites that deal with the education of Catholics into the “true history and rituals” of the church. The first site may have been St Gemma.com about the Catholic Saint of the 20th Century who was both a mystic and stigmatist. Others include such titles as: The Holy Mass.com, The Immaculate Heart.com, TheMostHoly Rosary.com, and The Council of Trent.

Probably central to Hobson’s internet work is the website todays catholicworld.com (see top). This website claims to provide “True Catholic News” for The Church in Eclipse. It aims to encourage and unify the true catholic faithful to take back usurped Catholic Churches world wide from the modernist enemies.

David Hobson is apparently a Sirianist: They represent a minority of Traditionalist Catholics who hold that the present occupant of the papal see is not truly Pope. The followers of the Siri Thesis claim that during the papal conclave of 1958, Cardinal Siri (the last Cardinal made by Pope Pius XII), who was considered the leading conservative candidate, was elected Pope on the first day of the conclave, October 26, and took the pontifical name of Gregory XVII.


Sounds pretty accurate to me. What's not to agree with?
Title: The Siri Thesis
Post by: parentsfortruth on October 22, 2013, 03:48:28 PM
If Hobson's true aim was only to unite Catholics, then he wouldn't be posting a bunch of gossip and rumors that he can't substantiate, and has actually been proven false in some cases, on his website. His slanderous lies about people if they're not on the same boat with him in his adherence to the Siri Thesis are disgusting.
Title: The Siri Thesis
Post by: Mabel on October 22, 2013, 04:09:13 PM
I remember the St. Gemma site, actually, I've seen a few of the ones listed. I think I just mentally labeled them as the guy with the weird ideas about Catholic dietary law. Filed under C for crazy.

Granted this was a long time ago, but there was some list about eating kosher or was it non-kosher food? I'm not going to hunt around and look it up. I didn't realize this was the guy.  :shocked:
Title: The Siri Thesis
Post by: parentsfortruth on October 22, 2013, 05:31:12 PM
Quote from: Memento
Here is a site which has a several articles on the "Siri Thesis". The authors write with charity and humor without violating Catholic propriety or morality.  Over the years I have found much food for thought. 

The "Overview" should not be missed- you must go to the home page to see it and please also check out their Library. 

http://www.eclipseofthechurch.com/.


This is not a Hobgoblin site. This site is run by Kenneth and Judith Gordon. It's a much better resource on the Siri thesis.
Title: The Siri Thesis
Post by: orleans on October 22, 2013, 05:53:06 PM
Parentsfortruth, I just went to the site. Their last article on this Siri Thesis was more than 7 years ago.
Title: The Siri Thesis
Post by: roscoe on October 22, 2013, 06:20:36 PM
Wrong--- C Sarto is in the 1903 conclave( it is the one that elects him) & is present when the fiasco of Puznya( at the behest of the freemason Franz Joseph) is played out. He knows all about everything from the get go.  The story is a hoax.  :reporter:
Title: The Siri Thesis
Post by: Mabel on October 22, 2013, 06:33:18 PM
Nothing like a Siri thread to tell you everything you need to know about a person.
Title: The Siri Thesis
Post by: Ladislaus on October 22, 2013, 07:58:58 PM
Hobson aside, there's a significant body of circumstantial evidence to suggest the high likelihood that Siri was elected in 1958.
Title: The Siri Thesis
Post by: Ladislaus on October 22, 2013, 08:12:01 PM
http://www.dailycatholic.org/issue/04Sep/sep12mdi.htm

http://www.dailycatholic.org/issue/04Nov/nov18mdi.htm
Title: The Siri Thesis
Post by: parentsfortruth on October 22, 2013, 11:52:56 PM
Quote from: orleans
Parentsfortruth, I just went to the site. Their last article on this Siri Thesis was more than 7 years ago.


And your point is....? There's really nothing new to the siri thesis.
Title: The Siri Thesis
Post by: parentsfortruth on October 22, 2013, 11:55:04 PM
Quote from: Ladislaus
Hobson aside, there's a significant body of circumstantial evidence to suggest the high likelihood that Siri was elected in 1958.


And I agree with this, but some fast talking scam artist doesn't make it moreso than not.
Title: The Siri Thesis
Post by: Matthew on October 23, 2013, 12:08:01 AM
"orleans" is clearly David Hobson, so he's been re-banned.

Title: The Siri Thesis
Post by: Ladislaus on October 23, 2013, 08:44:31 AM
Quote from: parentsfortruth
Quote from: Ladislaus
Hobson aside, there's a significant body of circumstantial evidence to suggest the high likelihood that Siri was elected in 1958.


And I agree with this, but some fast talking scam artist doesn't make it moreso than not.


Agreed, which is why I wrote "Hobson aside".  Hobson's antics don't make the Siri thesis less plausible either.  He basically has no affect on my thinking regarding the question.
Title: The Siri Thesis
Post by: Jalapeno on October 23, 2013, 12:26:06 PM
Quote from: Matthew
"orleans" is clearly David Hobson, so he's been re-banned.



Thank you.
Title: The Siri Thesis
Post by: ThomisticPhilosopher on October 27, 2013, 11:01:04 PM
Quote from: Luker
Hi all: I read the book "Nikita Roncalli" that has been linked to here on Cathinfo and found it quite interesting.  It mentioned some of the odd things that happened during the 1958 and 1963 conclaves and offered the theory that Cardinal Siri was elected but forced to resign under severe duress to make way for the 'masonic' choice of Roncalli.  In investigating this a little further I discovered this site:

http://www.thepopeinred.com/

It certainly offered some interesting information, but nothing I could find that would be conclusive.  I have to admit to more than half wanting this to be true.  Everything I read on Cardinal Siri confirms that he was staunchly orthodox and anti-communist.  Just the man to lead the Church after Pius XII...

However, that site links a lot of material off another site that at least seems to be connected, CathInfo or something and that was when things got weird.  I can't tell what trad group they are related to but they seem to hate all other trads even more (if possible) than the Vat II church.  I have to say my antennae started twitching immediately.  Nobody was spared their very uncharitable articles (that seemed quite light on hard evidence) ++Lefebvre, +Sanborn/Fr Cekada, CMRI, MHFM, pretty much nobody in traddom escaped their wrath, heck I even saw something on Cathinfo's own Matthew!

Who are these guys? Are they some kind of traditional Catholic group? They must be pretty small, I don't think I have heard of them before  :confused1:

Luke


It goes without saying that the theory is truly  :tinfoil:. This is the only "theological" position where conspiracy is the ONLY element necessary that determines your belief.

For the sake of argument, lets suppose that he is right and Cardinal Siri was elected as Gregory XVII. The fact that he stayed in communion with those he knew were anti-Popes, despite ANY good will or intentions he might have had is a schismatic act. Therefore Gregory XVII would be an anti-Pope, that no Catholic would owe allegiance to the theory is a poor attempt at recognizing the impostors as anti-Popes, while having all the benefits of sedeplenism. This is like attempting to have the best of both worlds without having to recourse to any thinking, but it is trying to reconcile the unreconcilable.

No more question about original jurisdiction because there is some secret Pope which no one is aware of, but we invisibly submit to... Sounds lovely, heck it makes  :tinfoil: nutters like David Icke seem quite sane. There is a great deal of truth and half truth's mixed into their argument. You cannot expect the Catholic faithful to base their whole belief on a conspiracy without backing it up with theology. Their problem is that EVERYTHING they judge is based on the internal forum, while the true Catholic teaching is based on the external forum. They make rash judgements all the time, and argue that they are sound judgements when they are not. There is definitely going to be an increase among the indult crowd a rise in the Siri thesis for those that believe the sedevacantist thesis is too hard to swallow. Anything but sedevacantism will work for these individuals...

Like others said, stay away but if you are too curious and have already listened to them. Just think logically and you will see how most of their arguments are drawn from straws. All of it is fill in the blank detective work, and if you want to make that case to someone who is rational they will definitely label you as a crack pot conspiracy theorist (can't really blame them sometimes). You just can't be making claims without making a disclaimer that this is probable, as opposed to "certain" or facts. That is the problem with the whole Siri thesis, even if it was true it simply means we have another anti-pope. No amount of duress or threats would ever change that fact, the man approved of heresy, submitted to heretics etc... Several times he denied it, what else are we supposed to judge by? Just look at his life and you will see that he was a staunch conservative that remained generally silent on the mass apostasy. Leading the faithful only closer to the clutches of the Conciliar Church, if it was not for men like Cardinal Siri who still give credibility to that institution, the open schism between traditionalist and Novus Ordites would have clashed a long time ago. Father John Hardon is another example of a sad attempt to build and destroy at the same time...