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Author Topic: The Roman Catechism and EENS.  (Read 655 times)

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Offline Jehanne

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The Roman Catechism and EENS.
« on: September 18, 2013, 07:26:08 AM »
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  • The authors of the Roman Catechism clearly understood that there are some individuals who are outside the Catholic Church, which is the Mystical Body of Jesus Christ:

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    Those Who Are Not Members Of The Church

    Hence there are but three classes of persons excluded from the Church's pale: infidels, heretics and schismatics, and excommunicated persons. Infidels are outside the Church because they never belonged to, and never knew the Church, and were never made partakers of any of her Sacraments. Heretics and schismatics are excluded from the Church, because they have separated from her and belong to her only as deserters belong to the army from which they have deserted. It is not, however, to be denied that they are still subject to the jurisdiction of the Church, inasmuch as they may be called before her tribunals, punished and anathematised. Finally, excommunicated persons are not members of the Church, because they have been cut off by her sentence from the number of her children and belong not to her communion until they repent. But with regard to the rest, however wicked and evil they may be, it is certain that they still belong to the Church: Of this the faithful are frequently to be reminded, in order to be convinced that, were even the lives of her ministers debased by crime, they are still within the Church, and therefore lose nothing of their power.


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    A fourth reason why the institution of the Sacraments seems necessary is that there may be certain marks and symbols to distinguish the faithful; particularly since, as St. Augustine observes, no society of men, professing a true or a false religion, can be, so to speak, consolidated into one body, unless united and held together by some bond of sensible signs. Both these objects the Sacraments of the New Law accomplish, distinguishing the Christian from the infidel, and uniting the faithful by a sort of sacred bond.


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    Necessity of Baptism

    If the knowledge of what has been hitherto explained be, as it is, of highest importance to the faithful, it is no less important to them to learn that the law of Baptism, as established by our Lord, extends to all, so that unless they are regenerated to God through the grace of Baptism, be their parents Christians or infidels, they are born to eternal misery and destruction. Pastors, therefore, should often explain these words of the Gospel: Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


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    Enemies And Those Outside The Church

    The Lord has also commanded us, to pray for those that persecute and calumniate us. The practice of praying for those who are not within the pale of the Church, is, as we know on the authority of St. Augustine, of Apostolic origin. We pray that the faith may be made known to infidels; that idolaters may be rescued from the error of their impiety; that the Jєωs, emerging from the darkness with which they are encompassed, may arrive at the light of truth; that heretics, returning to soundness of mind, may be instructed in the Catholic faith; and that schismatics may be united in the bond of true charity and may return to the communion of their holy mother, the Church, from which they have separated. Many examples prove that prayers for such as these are very efficacious when offered from the heart. Instances occur every day in which God rescues individuals of every condition of life from the powers of darkness, and transfers them into the kingdom of His Beloved Son, from vessels of wrath making them vessels of mercy. That the prayers of the pious have very great influence in bringing about this result no one can reasonably doubt.


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    Those Who Do Nor Pray In Spirit

    This practice of praying in spirit is peculiar to Christians, and is not at all used by infidels. Of these Christ the Lord has said: When you pray, speak not much, as the heathens; for they think that in their much speaking they may be heard. Be not ye, therefore, like to them, for your Father knoweth what is needful for you before you ask him.


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    That Unbelievers May Be Converted

    Thus, then, as the heavenly spirits with perfect unanimity exalt and glorify God, so do we pray that the same be done over all the earth; that all nations may come to know, worship, and reverence God; that all without a single exception may embrace the Christian religion, may devote themselves wholly to the service of God, and may be convinced that in Him is the source of all sanctity and that there is nothing pure, nothing holy, that does not proceed from the sanctity of His divine name. According to the testimony of the Apostle, The church is cleansed by the laver of water in the word of life. and the word of life signifies the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost in which we are baptised and sanctified.  And since there is no expiation, no purity, no integrity, in him over whom the divine name has not been invoked, we desire and pray that all mankind may abandon the darkness of their impious infidelity, and, enlightened by the rays of divine light, may come to recognise the power of this name and look to it alone for true sanctity, and that thus receiving the Sacrament of Baptism in the name of the holy and undivided Trinity, they may receive the plenitude of sanctity from the right hand of God Himself.


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    We Pray For The Propagation Of The Church

    In this Petition we ask God that the kingdom of Christ, that is, His Church, may be enlarged; that Jєωs and infidels may embrace the faith of Christ and the knowledge of the true God; that schismatics and heretics may return to soundness of mind, and to the communion of the Church of God which they have deserted; and that thus may be fulfilled and realised the words of the Lord, spoken by the mouth of Isaias: Enlarge the place of thy tent, and stretch out the skins of thy tabernacles; lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes, for thou shalt pass on to the right hand and to the left, for he that made thee shall rule over thee. And again: The Gentiles shall walk in thy light, and kings in the brightness of thy rising; lift up thy eyes round about and see; all these are gathered together, they are come to thee; thy sons shall come from afar, and thy daughters shall rise up at thy side.


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    Our Chief Hope Of Deliverance Should Be In God

    The faithful should be encouraged to use this salutary manner of praying and to imitate the example of the Prophet. And at the same time their attention should be called to the marked difference that exists between the prayers of the infidel and those of the Christian.  The infidel, too, begs of God to cure his diseases and to heal his wounds, to deliver him from approaching or impending evils; but he places his principal hope of deliverance in the remedies provided by nature, or prepared by man. He makes no scruple of using medicine no matter by whom prepared, no matter if accompanied by charms, spells or other diabolical arts, provided he can promise himself some hope of recovery.

    Not so the Christian. When visited by sickness, or other adversity, he flies to God as his supreme refuge and defence. Acknowledging and revering God alone as the author of all his good and his deliverer he ascribes to Him whatever healing virtue resides in medicines, convinced that they help the sick only in so far as God wills it. For it is God who has given medicines to man to heal his corporal infirmities; and hence these words of Ecclesiasticus: The most High hath created medicines out of the earth, and a wise man will not abhor them. He, therefore, who has pledged his fidelity to Jesus Christ, does not place his principal hope of recovery in such remedies; he places it in God, the author of these medicines. Hence the Sacred Scriptures condemn the conduct of those who, confiding in the power of medicine, seek no assistance from God. Nay more, those who regulate their lives by the laws of God, abstain from the use of all medicines which are not evidently intended by God to be medicinal; and, were there even a certain hope of recovery by using any other, they abstain from them as so many charms and diabolical artifices.


    Speaking of "Baptism of Desire" from a historical point of view, such was only ever applied to these folks:

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    Ordinarily They Are Not Baptised At Once

    On adults, however, the Church has not been accustomed to confer the Sacrament of Baptism at once, but has ordained that it be deferred for a certain time. The delay is not attended with the same danger as in the case of infants, which we have already mentioned; should any unforeseen accident make it impossible for adults to be washed in the salutary waters, their intention and determination to receive Baptism and their repentance for past sins, will avail them to grace and righteousness.

    Nay, this delay seems to be attended with some advantages. And first, since the Church must take particular care that none approach this Sacrament through hypocrisy and dissimulation, the intentions of such as seek Baptism, are better examined and ascertained. Hence it is that we read in the decrees of ancient Councils that Jєωιѕн converts to the Catholic faith, before admission to Baptism, should spend some months in the ranks of the catechumens.

    Furthermore, the candidate for Baptism is thus better instructed in the doctrine of the faith which he is to profess, and in the practices of the Christian life. Finally, when Baptism is administered to adults with solemn ceremonies on the appointed days of Easter and Pentecost only greater religious reverence is shown to the Sacrament.


    However (and, this rarely ever gets mention in the many BoD/BoB debates):

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    In Case Of Necessity Adults May Be: Baptised At Once

    Sometimes, however, when there exists a just and necessary cause, as in the case of imminent danger of death, Baptism is not to be deferred, particularly if the person to be baptised is well instructed in the mysteries of faith. This we find to have been done by Philip, and by the Prince of the Apostles, when without any delay, the one baptised the eunuch of Queen Candace; the other, Cornelius, as soon as they expressed a wish to embrace the faith.


    So, clearly, the authors of the Roman Catechism did not believe that "desire alone" was always sufficient to secure the salvation of a catechumen, and they certainly did not ever apply "baptism of desire" to infidels or Jєωs.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    The Roman Catechism and EENS.
    « Reply #1 on: September 18, 2013, 08:56:13 AM »
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  • And even the oft-quoted passage on BoD here isn't slam dunk either.

    I've seen the Latin text (don't have it anymore after a computer crash), but it could easily read something like ...

    "their intention and determination to receive Baptism and their repentance for past sins will avail them to grace and righteousness lest any unforseen accident make it impossible for adults to be washed in the salutary water"

    In other words, God will prevent them from being cut off from baptism by some "unforseen" (not by God of course) accident if they have the proper dispositions to receive.

    Regardless, as you point out, all of the Trent era authors spoke of BoD ONLY in the context of catechumens.  St. Robert Bellarmine, who was a Father at Trent, discussed BoD by asking the question, "Can catechumens who die before receiving baptism be saved?"  At no time did he nor any of the other post Trent Doctors EVER speculate about whether heretics, infidels, schismatics, etc. could be saved; they never entertained the notion.  And it's curious that St. Robert Bellarmine based his argument that catechumens could be saved if they died before Baptism on the notion that "it would seem too harsh" to say otherwise.  He did NOT cite the passage in Trent that everyone now claims teaches BoD.  Why?  Because Trent was NOT teaching BoD in that passage.

    St. Robert Bellarmine and St. Alphonsus Liguori would be appalled that dishonest people are citing them as proponents of the idea that non-Catholics can be saved.


    Offline Jehanne

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    The Roman Catechism and EENS.
    « Reply #2 on: September 18, 2013, 09:30:18 AM »
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  • The Roman Catechism was originally written in Italian.  It was later translated into Latin:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catechism

    Offline Ladislaus

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    The Roman Catechism and EENS.
    « Reply #3 on: September 18, 2013, 10:03:26 AM »
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  • But, if I'm not mistaken, it was the Latin that was officially promulgated and then subsequent vernacular translations made from the Latin.  I don't believe that the original Italian and any authority behind it.

    Offline ThomisticPhilosopher

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    The Roman Catechism and EENS.
    « Reply #4 on: September 18, 2013, 09:51:11 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    But, if I'm not mistaken, it was the Latin that was officially promulgated and then subsequent vernacular translations made from the Latin.  I don't believe that the original Italian and any authority behind it.


    You are correct, when you are debating an issue it is the Latin that you will be debating. You might recourse to the Italian to help you see what they meant just for linguistical purposes, but nothing more.
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