Author Topic: The Resurrection and Cremation - Fr. Wathen (Read 2962 times)

cassini · « **Reply #10 on:** April 12, 2019, 07:02:01 AM »

Yes, I agree, great post Merry. Again, wasn't it Pope Paul VI who gave example by getting himself cremated, with not a cross or anything on his plain 'humble' coffin? Matthew's point that Jesus entered a grave is also most interesting. As a long time Catholic it has always been wrong to get cremated. It used to be atheists or pagans who got cremated, and thus was anti-Catholic. I went to one recently, a school friend. Not a prayer, nothing. I could not believe he went to his grave an atheist, one like me educated by Archbishop Lefebvre's Holy Ghost Fathers. In his case it was not money, he had lots.

A few things, one a joke, others not a joke. This man said he was going to be cremated because he didn't want to wake up in the coffin and hear the clay being piled upon him. His friend said, 'Oh, you would prefer to wake up and find your bum on fire.' I know two others who had their ashes put into the sea where he used to swim and another who had his ashes put into a reiver he fished in.

When my father-in-law was being buried ten years ago my mother-in-law asked my wife to buy the grave beside it to keep all together. She did, it cost her 700 Euro. Since then graves have gone up in price by 700%. Average cost is 5,000 Euro, 5,500 dollars. The dearest in Dublin is now 32,000 Euro.

Finally, I love telling friends not to dance on my grave because I have already done that, and I have. Oh before I forget, I knew a very Catholic man who not only bought his grave but had all the inscriptions put on the gravestone, everything except the dates of birth of him and his wife. He told me he wanted to make sure it was done as he would wish. Both have been added since. May the Lord have mercy on all the souls departed.

Incredulous · « **Reply #11 on:** April 13, 2019, 10:03:15 PM »

Al Capone's family did it right...

My favorite is "Jesus Mercy" with no other name or date.

moneil · « **Reply #12 on:** April 16, 2019, 01:08:39 PM »

As I work part time for a funeral home (as an assistant, I’m not a licensed funeral director) I’ll give some thoughts.

A traditional funeral with cemetery burial is not inexpensive and it may behoove one to plan ahead, which does not necessarily mean paying ahead, but that is an option. To give an idea, here is the 2018 Peoples Memorial Association price survey for Washington State (yes, I know PMA is an advocate for low cost cremation, which does not invalidate the accuracy or usefulness of their price survey):

https://peoplesmemorial.org/education-and-advocacy/

… these are only funeral home prices, they do not include cemetery costs. Where I work a Catholic funeral (Vigil / Rosary service at the funeral home chapel the evening before, Mass at the parish church, committal service at a cemetery) costs about $3,800 and the casket cost will average about $2,600 (you can spend from $800 to over $10,000 for a burial casket).

1. Shop around AHEAD of time as prices can vary greatly between firms in the same location. Even in a small town with only one mortuary it is good to stop in, inquire, get acquainted. The same is true for cemeteries. Some funeral homes post their prices on their web site. All funeral homes are required by Federal Trade Commission rules to give a printed copy of their General Price List and Casket Price List to anyone who comes in and asks for them. One of the reasons IMHO that funeral costs are so high, as with health care costs, is that people don’t shop or plan, and only deal with the cost factor when the need arises.

2. Price shouldn’t be one’s only criteria, but it needs to be calculated ahead of time so the funds are available when needed. The quality of their facilities and how one “connects” with the staff could be considerations. Generally you’ll have to educate them about the elements of a traditional (pre VII) Catholic funeral, and how well the funeral director takes direction from you would be a consideration. If there isn’t a traditional Catholic chapel in one’s vicinity and a visiting priest will be saying / singing the Requiem Mass at the mortuary chapel, its suitability for that may be important.

3. It is customary, traditional even, to have the casket open at the Vigil / Rosary service, but this is not required by the Church. Washington and many other states require embalming for a public viewing. One could save some money by not having embalming and cosmetology and keeping the casket closed (there could still be provision for a brief private family viewing) “if” the funeral can occur within 2-3 days of death generally. IMHO it is unreasonable to expect a funeral home to keep un-embalmed remains for several days, even if they have refrigeration. In Washington all human remains must be embalmed or refrigerated within 24 hours of death, unless they are being buried or cremated within that time. As a practical matter it would be almost impossible to complete the legal paperwork for burial or cremation in that time frame.

4. What is advertised as “burial insurance” or “funeral insurance” is in fact a whole life insurance policy but may have three distinctive features from other life insurance policies (this is regulated by each individual state, I’m only familiar with Washington State): 1) The named beneficiary is always a funeral home (the family still has the option of using another funeral home at the time of death); 2) They are irrevocable, i.e. they can’t be cashed out ahead of death, but after death any value not used for funeral costs is paid out to the survivors; 3) The value of the policy is excluded from one’s assets if one needs to “spend down” to qualify for Medicaid, especially relevant if an elderly person goes to a skilled nursing facility.

5. If one is considering this type of pre-payment, which can be done in installments, I would generally consider buying it from the funeral home if, and most do, they freeze the cost of the funeral service and casket. That is, once you have selected the service package and casket and funded it through a life insurance policy you won’t pay any more regardless of if their prices have increased by the time of death.

6. Other pre-payment options would include savings accounts, other life insurance policies, and trusts, which all have their various features. Two considerations would be: 1) Will the amount invested in these instruments and their growth yield enough to cover what funeral costs might be at the time of death; 2) How protected are these assets from Medicaid “spend down” requirements or a tort action. Trusts can have an advantage here, but there are costs associated with setting them up.

7. At the time of need an opportunity can be given for people to assist with funeral expenses. Sometimes a trust account is set up at a local bank and this is announced in the obituary. We often have a donation box next to the guest register at the visitation or Rosary service, and also at the funeral lunch / reception after the service. In my observation this is more common in Latin and Asian cultures but not unknown with Anglos. Our area includes seven Catholic parishes, and while the funeral home is sometimes asked about doing this, the local pastors do not permit the donation box to be at the church, nor a special collection for funeral expenses to be taken during the Mass.

One last thing. Because of my interest in the field I have read several funeral director memoirs, and they almost all mention times they have bartered for goods or services because a family didn’t have sufficient funds for the kind of funeral and casket they wanted for a loved one. Generally they would rather not because of the nuisance of it all, but it is done. One time I came in from a first call and there was one of those fancy electric wheel chairs in the garage. My boss said he had taken it in on trade for a funeral and it was valued at about $3,000. It was gone from the garage after a couple of weeks, so I assume he found a home for it.

Incredulous · « **Reply #13 on:** April 16, 2019, 01:40:33 PM »

Excellent and practical inputs on the burial costing Moneil. Thank you!

psalter · « **Reply #14 on:** April 17, 2019, 10:05:00 PM »

Quote from: Pax Vobis on April 08, 2019, 12:20:28 PM

I've heard of funeral insurance. Not sure if it's worth it, but it's cheaper than life insurance. I'd ask someone in your life who knows about finance to give you their opinion.

So what happens if you purchased a plot at one of the Traditional camps (SSPX, etc.), and then joined a different one? Do you get a refund, or will they allow you to be buried in original place where you purchased the plot? Will the funeral insurance cover such issues?

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Author Topic: The Resurrection and Cremation - Fr. Wathen (Read 2962 times)

cassini

Re: The Resurrection and Cremation - Fr. Wathen

Incredulous

Re: The Resurrection and Cremation - Fr. Wathen

moneil

Re: The Resurrection and Cremation - Fr. Wathen

Incredulous

Re: The Resurrection and Cremation - Fr. Wathen

psalter

Re: The Resurrection and Cremation - Fr. Wathen