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Author Topic: The real issue between occasionally and never attending NO  (Read 10171 times)

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Re: The real issue between occasionally and never attending NO
« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2021, 09:46:56 PM »
Pax, you're basically saying that anyone who doesn't agree with the position of one particular Trad priest isn't a real trad, accusing of bad will, etc.  Its the kind of thing that isn't typical of you, and its somewhat surprising in this case.

Not everyone in Tradition has held to the ultra rigorist position that Fr. Wathen did.  Archbishop Lefebvre didn't.  Bishop Williamson doesn't.

Its not "bad will" to disagree on this subject.  Nor does it make one not a trad.

Offline Emile

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Re: The real issue between occasionally and never attending NO
« Reply #36 on: July 26, 2021, 10:53:31 PM »
I'm satisfied that what I have written on this subject is true and inline with the Church's teaching. If there is error in what I have said may God make it plain to all so that it goes no further.

If anyone is interested here are three links (posted previously) which give canon 1258 in Latin and two English translations, along with practical explanations.

https://archive.org/details/1917CodeOfCanonLawCommentary/page/n2581/mode/2up

https://archive.org/details/CasesOfConscienceForEnglishSpeakingV1/page/n150/mode/1up

https://archive.org/details/pointsofchurchla0000slat/page/21/mode/1up


Re: The real issue between occasionally and never attending NO
« Reply #37 on: July 26, 2021, 11:30:33 PM »
That's a half-truth, and based on your repeated half-truths, i'll assume it's now dishonesty.  
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Yes, they have made a distinction between passive attendance, but such is allowed only under certain conditions.  1) protestant wedding (not a protestant service), 2) if there is a grave reason for attendance, 3) with permission of your bishop.
Here is 1917 Canon 1258.2.
Quote
§ 2. Passive or merely material presence can be tolerated for the sake of honor or civil office, for grave reason approved by the Bishop in case of doubt, at the funerals, weddings, and similar solemnities of non-Catholics, provided danger of perversion and scandal is absent.

1) The text says  "and similar solemnities" of non-Cahtolics, so more than just weddings. That includes a baptism or even a bar mitzvah.
2) The canon does not require approval of the bishop in all cases, but *in case of doubt*. 

Offline Emile

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Re: The real issue between occasionally and never attending NO
« Reply #38 on: July 27, 2021, 12:04:50 AM »
That's a half-truth, and based on your repeated half-truths, i'll assume it's now dishonesty.  
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Yes, they have made a distinction between passive attendance, but such is allowed only under certain conditions.  1) protestant wedding (not a protestant service), 2) if there is a grave reason for attendance, 3) with permission of your bishop.
Here's canon 1258 yet again:
s1. Haud licitum est fidelibus quovis modo active assistere seu partem habere in sacris acatholicorum.
s2. Tolerari potest praesentia passiva seu materialis, civilis officii vel honoris causa, ob gravem rationem ab Episcopo in causu dubii probandum, in acatholicorum funeribus, nuptiis similibusque sollemniis, dummodo perversionis et scandali periculum absit.

It is unlawful for Catholics to assist actively in any way at, or take part in, the religious services of non-Catholics.
A passive or merely material presence may be tolerated, for reasons of civil duty or honor, at funerals, weddings, and similar celebrations, provided no danger of perversion or scandal arises from this assistance. In doubtful cases the reason for assisting must be grave, and recognized as such by the Bishop.


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1) protestant wedding (not a protestant service)

Canon 1258 does not say protestant anywhere. It says non-Catholic.
s1. makes the distinction ACTIVE assistance. It does NOT forbid passive presence. It DOES forbid active assistance and taking part in a non-Catholic services (ie. joining in the prayers, serving as groomsman or bridesmaid, etc.)
It also does not make the distinction between a wedding and a service that you claim.


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2) if there is a grave reason for attendance, 3) with permission of your bishop.

s2. ...In doubtful cases the reason for assisting must be grave, and recognized as such by the Bishop.

Offline Emile

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Re: The real issue between occasionally and never attending NO
« Reply #39 on: July 27, 2021, 12:23:26 AM »
Ok, so you don't trust a priest who grew up pre-V2, went to a pre-V2 orthodox seminary, recognized the errors of V2 as they were happening in the 60s, refused to ever say the new mass and left his diocese, with no where to go, and with no $, when his bishop wouldn't let him continue to say the TLM.  Then he wrote a book against the new mass, one of the first on the topic, only 2 years after this blasphemy was forced on the laity across the globe.
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...This is a priest, as orthodox as they come, whom you won't listen to.  Wow.  I have no words...
I respect Fr. Wathen, and have shown it. This is what you had to say about the matter:


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You can disagree with Fr Wathen all you want; he’s not infallible.
It is possible to respect someone and disagree with them simultaneously.