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Offline Matthew

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The problem with Sedevacantism
« on: June 26, 2016, 08:58:46 PM »
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  • The problem with Sedevacantism is that it's something positive. It's a positive declaration or choice. So once you set up that "Sedevacantist" chapel, it's hard to not constantly obsess about that one issue. After all, it's central to your chapel's identity!


    Say I started a "European Traditional Catholic chapel" tomorrow. Wouldn't you expect there to be something different about that chapel, compared with your plain vanilla "Traditional Catholic chapel"? Of course you would. And you'd be right! The sermons would probably talk about Europe's role in Divine Providence more than most chapels, I'm sure all the saint statues and pictures would be of European saints, the parishioners would probably be above-average against immigration, there would probably be a few neo-nazis in the parish, and so forth. Long story short, if we didn't do something different at that chapel, we would be kind of silly to be so specific on our chapel's signage.

    That's why I have to laugh about things like "Sedevacantist singles".

    Is that where you throw darts at a picture of the current "antipope" with the girl you're courting, instead of going to the bowling alley? If the "sedevacantist" courting experience isn't significantly different than that of a regular non-sedevacantist "Traditional Catholic", then why be so strangely specific?



    As an interesting corollary, this applies to "Traditional Catholic" as well.

    Every day, I am faced with that adjective "Traditional" which reminds me that I reject the heresy of Modernism (as well as other modern errors like Freemasonry,  Communism, Feminism), I value Tradition as much as I value Scripture. I am also reminded of the truth that the Catholic Faith is inherently Traditional, as well as the fact that there is a Crisis in the Church going on right now, and has been in progress for the last 46 years. It also reminds me that if we are in crisis and in a state of war, there's no room for the lukewarm. We must be soldiers for Christ like never before.

    So yes, Traditional Catholics "Catholic" differently than regular (conciliar) Catholics. So the adjective is called for, and welcome.

    How's that for an answer to the oft-posed, "Why can't we just call ourselves Catholic" question!
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    Offline TKGS

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    The problem with Sedevacantism
    « Reply #1 on: June 26, 2016, 09:15:06 PM »
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  • The problem with sedeplenism is that it is something positive every single time the pope opens his mouth.  Instead of recognizing one fact (the papal claimant is a heretic) the sedeplenist must judge the pope daily.

    As for as obsessing...I find that it is the anti-sedevacantists who are obsessed with the issue.

    At our chapel, we do call ourselves Catholic.  We don't call ourselves Resistance, SSPX, or Community, or anything like that.


    Offline Clemens Maria

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    The problem with Sedevacantism
    « Reply #2 on: June 26, 2016, 09:48:09 PM »
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  • Do I hear the band playing on the deck of the Titantic?  But who am I to judge?

    Offline roscoe

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    The problem with Sedevacantism
    « Reply #3 on: June 27, 2016, 12:21:18 AM »
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  • There is no such thing as Sedevacantism....  :fryingpan:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline qeddeq

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    The problem with Sedevacantism
    « Reply #4 on: June 28, 2016, 06:22:33 PM »
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  • the SV position is based on the following premise: that a duly elected pope can be an antipope. The non-SV position is that a duly elected pope can never be an antipope. The mere fact of his being elected pope, validly and licitly, guarantees that he is a true pope in the minds of non-sv catholics. Therefore, there is nothing the duly elected pope could say or do that could be proof that he is an antipope. If Bergoglio is a true pope, then there is no such thing as a false pope, unless one not elected validly. You could have a pope who makes bergoglio look like Pius V and Non-SV catholics would still recognize him as pope. If this be error show me.


    Offline roscoe

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    The problem with Sedevacantism
    « Reply #5 on: June 28, 2016, 06:44:21 PM »
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  • Quote from: An even Seven
    Quote from: roscoe
    There is no such thing as Sedevacantism....  :fryingpan:


    I have been seeing you post this some in older posts.  What do you mean by that?


    Pls read my Signature below....  :ready-to-eat:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline qeddeq

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    The problem with Sedevacantism
    « Reply #6 on: June 28, 2016, 07:04:20 PM »
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  • I just want people on the record here: is or is not francis a true pope? I want to hear you say it.

    Offline snowball

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    The problem with Sedevacantism
    « Reply #7 on: June 28, 2016, 07:43:39 PM »
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  • Quote from: roscoe
    Quote from: An even Seven
    Quote from: roscoe
    There is no such thing as Sedevacantism....  :fryingpan:


    I have been seeing you post this some in older posts.  What do you mean by that?


    Pls read my Signature below....  :ready-to-eat:



    Well then.

    Interregnumism.

    better?


    Offline roscoe

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    The problem with Sedevacantism
    « Reply #8 on: June 28, 2016, 08:29:33 PM »
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  • Quote from: snowball
    Quote from: roscoe
    Quote from: An even Seven
    Quote from: roscoe
    There is no such thing as Sedevacantism....  :fryingpan:


    I have been seeing you post this some in older posts.  What do you mean by that?


    Pls read my Signature below....  :ready-to-eat:



    Well then.

    Interregnumism.

    better?


    i have never heard of that one either.... :soapbox:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline roscoe

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    The problem with Sedevacantism
    « Reply #9 on: June 28, 2016, 08:54:00 PM »
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  • My position is that there is a pope somewhere-- I can not tell you who he is because I do not know.  :detective:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline snowball

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    The problem with Sedevacantism
    « Reply #10 on: June 29, 2016, 11:14:44 AM »
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  • Quote from: roscoe
    My position is that there is a pope somewhere-- I can not tell you who he is because I do not know.  :detective:


    There are "conclavist" claims to the papacy, but to say they are
    dubious would be an understatement. It would potentially be
    more valid to assume Siri was the true Pope, and he appointed
    a successor in secret. (Pope in Red site).
    The longest interregnum that we know was 1268-71, from
    which sprang the College of Cardinals.

    I'm sure most of you know these things.


    Offline MyrnaM

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    The problem with Sedevacantism
    « Reply #11 on: June 29, 2016, 11:27:59 AM »
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  • Quote from: TKGS
    The problem with sedeplenism is that it is something positive every single time the pope opens his mouth.  Instead of recognizing one fact (the papal claimant is a heretic) the sedeplenist must judge the pope daily.

    As for as obsessing...I find that it is the anti-sedevacantists who are obsessed with the issue.

    At our chapel, we do call ourselves Catholic.  We don't call ourselves Resistance, SSPX, or Community, or anything like that.


    This is so true, hardly ever does anyone discuss what Francis is doing, and if I for one mention something I read here most laity will respond with "Really or ... wow!" and thats it.  

    From our sermons, we hear true Catholic devotions, doctrines, feast days.  The only time I hear mention of what is going on in the new church would be special times when we might have out of town people visitors from SSPX because that is what they are so accustomed to hearing.

    Offline nctradcath

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    The problem with Sedevacantism
    « Reply #12 on: June 29, 2016, 06:20:20 PM »
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  • What a wonder to be at the mount Myrna. If I had family and job prospects in that area, I'd move in a heartbeat.

    Offline roscoe

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    The problem with Sedevacantism
    « Reply #13 on: June 29, 2016, 08:54:35 PM »
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  • Quote from: qeddeq
    I just want people on the record here: is or is not francis a true pope? I want to hear you say it.


    Frank 1 is an anti-pope..... :fryingpan:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline roscoe

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    The problem with Sedevacantism
    « Reply #14 on: June 29, 2016, 09:18:23 PM »
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  • Quote from: qeddeq
    If Bergoglio is a true pope, then there is no such thing as a false pope, unless one not elected validly.


    I have never heard of a false pope but there have been about 45 anti-popes. MO is that the v2 anti-popes are just that because their claim to a legal election cannot be true.

    I leave theology to others.  :detective:

    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

     

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