Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: Caraffa on March 05, 2011, 09:56:46 PM
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Forty Years of Novus Dis-Ordo
(But what about the Code of Canon Law of 1917?)
Brian McCall
REMNANT COLUMNIST, Oklahoma
(Posted 1/15/10) Anniversaries are a time for reflection. 2009 Marked the 40th anniversary of the revolutionary introduction of the Novus Ordo Missae by the command of Pope Paul VI, an act which has inflicted much damage, pain, scandal and confusion on the Church. As a reflection on this anniversary we will consider a topic which, to my knowledge, has rarely been considered as a contributing factor to this unprecedented liturgical novelty, the imposition on the Church of the Codex Juris Canonici of 1917.
My topic may surprise Traditionalists who tend to look back at the 1917 Code as a bastion of traditional discipline compared to the Code of 1983 promulgated by John Paul II. The project leading to the adoption of the 1917 Code was initiated by Pope Pius X and it was adopted by Benedict XV, two Popes whom Traditionalists generally look back on with admiration.
The prime mover behind the code, however, (the Bugnini of that time, one might say) was Cardinal Gasparri, a protégé of the known freemason Cardinal Rompollo. If the Novus Ordo Missae was, as Bugnini gloated, a conquest of the liturgical life of the Church, the 1917 Code holds a similar position with respect to Canon Law. It was a victory of the Enlightenment Liberal view of law over the ancient legal Tradition of the Church.
In this two-part article we will explore this conclusion. In this first part we will explore the Traditional understanding of law that dominated the Church and Society from the beginning of recorded history until the nineteenth century and contrast the principles underlying this understanding with the principles underlying a modern Code of law. In Part II we will explore how this revolution in law relates to the revolution in liturgy that occurred a half century later.
The 1917 Code did contain substantive provisions which retained many traditional ideas and rules. The issue we will consider is rather the idea of a Code of law itself. To understand the revolutionary nature of the imposition of the Codex Juris Cononici in lieu of the Corpus Juris Canonici, we need to go back and summarize the Traditional Catholic principles of law abandoned, or at least seriously compromised, by this novel act.
Unlike modern liberal conceptions of law dominated by floods of detailed legislative and administrative texts, the Traditional understanding of law is much richer. Gatian, the 12th century father of Canon Law, began his great textbook on Canon Law by defining law with the following general summary: “The human race is ruled by two things, namely, Natural Law and long-standing custom.” Law is comprised of two pillars, the precepts established by God which can be known by the use of right reason (Natural Law) and time honored customary norms. Notice what is missing from this definition: statue, ordinances—the very life blood of modern Liberal legal code-based systems.
The omission is not due to Gratian’s ignorance of such legal forms of rules. Just a few pages later he lists statutes and ordinances within a more detailed list of specific types of laws or leges. Yet, these ordinances are circuмscribed and thus limited by the two opening categories of law, Natural Law and custom. The Traditional understanding of the role of statutes was that they merely confirmed in writing what was already known either by the use of right reason or the observance of long standing customs. Legislators did not see themselves as making laws de novo but rather of discovering, clarifying and recording with precision the contents of laws which pre-existed in the Natural Law or long standing custom. The traditional role of a legislator was jus dicere or “to speak the law.” Such a phrase implies the role is one of making known—or speaking—the law rather than creating it.
Isidore explains in a passage quoted by Gratian: “It does not matter whether it [custom] is confirmed by writing [i.e., a statute] or by reason [i.e., Natural Law], since reason also supports ordinance. Furthermore if ordinance is determined by reason, then ordinance will be all that reason has already confirmed.” Statutes are a part of a system founded on Natural Law and customary norms. Its legitimacy is dependent upon them. Gratian comments after this passage that “in part, custom has been collected in writing and, in part, it has been preserved only in the usages of its followers. What is put in writing is called enactment or law, while what is not collected in writing is called by the general term custom.”
When the ancient Romans produced their first written laws in the mid fifth century B.C., the Law of the Twelve Tables, these statutes were not seen as newly created laws but merely a written record of the ancient Roman customs that had been in use for years. It was written down so that it could be better known and so as to reduce disputes about its contents. This characteristic was common to all the great written legal products up to the nineteenth century.
The concept of a newly devised Code purporting to embody all of the law of a society being promulgated and imposed upon a society was unprecedented before the Enlightenment. Although sometimes called “codes,” the Traditional projects are more accurately described as compilations. Thus, the great Corpus Juris Civilis of the Emperor Justinian in the sixth Century A.D. was not a new Code of law (in the sense of the 1917 Code) written by politicians and bureaucrats and imposed on the Christian Empire. It was a collection of the Imperial and Senatorial enactments and the opinions and interpretations of well known Roman jurists compiled by scholars from the mass of these docuмents and collated into a single set of books. The law books promulgated by Justinian did not “change” the law but merely presented the laws in an organized way – a record of the pre-existing longstanding and organically developed legal system.
Gratian did the same thing for the law of the Church. His Decretum is a collection of constitutions of Ecuмenical and local Councils and Synods, juridical decisions of Popes, commentaries by Father’s of the Church and writings of philosophers and theologians—all arranged topically and interspersed with introductions, interpretations and commentaries by Gratian. This monumental compilation, together with various supplements containing subsequent additional decisions and constitutions, was studied by jurists and used by canon lawyers as the living corpus of all of Ecclesiastical Law from the 12th century until 1917.
Although I have provided only a limited description of the Civil Law of Justinian and the Canon Law of Gratian, we should be able to see that it is a much more flexible, living, organic, nuanced and varied form of legal system than a modern Code. Gratian and the scholars working for Justinian did not create the law out of thin air based on pure disembodied reason. They respected law as a living system developing through the application of right reason and customary norms to new situations and circuмstances and through the slow, almost imperceptible, growth and development of customs. They approached law with a humility unknown to modern Code drafters. Law was a treasure preserved yet perfected slightly by each generation. Since law involved the working out in detail of such complex penumbras as equity, goodness, rightness and justice, no single person, or even group of persons, in a particular place and time should dare claim to compose the entire corpus of law. To do so would seem the height of hubris to the classical and Traditional minded jurists for over two millennia.
One way to see the stark difference in approach between Traditional legal systems and modern ones (such as the Code of Canon Law) is to look at the relationship between authority and time. In the modern liberal system, authority is linked to novelty. The newer the law, the more authority it carries. Thus, the 1983 Code of Canon Law has greater authority over provisions in the 1917 Code because it has been enacted more recently.
The Traditional understanding of law was just the opposite. The older a particular law or legal norm could be demonstrated to be, the greater authority attributed to it. Customs which existed “since the memory of man runneth not to the contrary” were seen as much more reliable, and thus authoritative, than newer and novel norms. Opinions of ancient thinkers, jurists, philosophers, popes and saints that had stood the test of time were more authoritative than something dreamed up yesterday. Again the ancient attitude is filled with humility and acceptance of human failing.
Getting justice and equity right is difficult; it is worked out through painstaking analysis and trial and error. It is thus arrogant to think that one can rewrite an entire legal system in one book. If one were to have suggested to the great civil and church jurists of the past—Gratian, Accursius, Hostiensis or Bulgarus—that the great edifice of legal sources and customary laws organically built up over the centuries should be discarded and replaced with a newly drafted Code drawn up by committee, they would likely have burst into laughter at the preposterous nature of such an idea.
The Traditional and modern understanding of law has important implications for the understanding of the exercise of authority. Traditionally, those who govern a society (be it the Pope or Emperor) may have possessed plenary authority to make (or more accurately change) particular laws, yet their exercise of that authority was constrained. Distinctions 11 and 12 of Gratian’s Decretum are filled with exhortations of Church Fathers and Popes that long standing customs which are not opposed to the Faith must be preserved and respected. Representative is the statement of Pope Nicholas I included by Gratian in this section: “It is ridiculous and abominable disgrace that…we suffer the traditions we have received from the fathers of ancient times to be infringed at will.” Gratian also includes a quotation from St. Jerome that ancient traditions and customs “which have been handed down from previous generations” “that do not offend the faith” “are to be observed.”
The respect for ancient customs that restrained a ruler also required a respect for local variety. In the same passage, St. Jerome confirms that customs (again that do not offend against the faith) are “not to be overturned” just because differing customs exist in different locations. Thus, a lawmaker not only had to respect norms and customs existing over time but also varying across locations.
Laws can be changed when existing customs are wicked. Thus, Gratian quotes Isidore as saying “let ordinance and reason vanquish bad usages.” Thus, although customs could be overturned by an act of a sovereign, this was only to be done when the custom was found to violate reason (Natural Law) or the Faith. The plenary legislative power of a ruler (Pope or Prince) was in one sense unlimited. It could be exercised to vanquish anything contrary to Natural Law or Faith. “The will of the Prince [a term that would include the Pope] has the force of law” was a common legal aphorism loved by the Gregorian Reformers to demonstrate that the supreme legislative authority existed in the Papal office.
Yet, this complete power was prevented from being used tyrannically. The Prince was to use this power only within the framework of that which ruled the whole human race, Natural Law and custom. To use the plenary power otherwise was immoral and unjust tyranny. The following conclusion of Lucas of Penna is typical: “It is obvious that when the will of the prince deviates from equity, justice or reason it is not law.” The power to make laws was limited to equity, justice and reason – the key principles of Natural Law. As we have seen, justice and reason also demanded respect for customary and local practices and norms.
Thus, law had been, from the time of the Law of the Twelve Tables until the modern era, a great, organic mosaic of authorities interrelated and entangled over time and space.
In the official title of Gratian’s Decretum it was a Concordance of Discordant canons (or norms). Law was Natural Law and custom, trimmed, supplemented and pruned by legislative acts that took their place in a living custom. In the temporal sphere this idea of law was rejected by the liberal Enlightenment thinkers and forcibly overturned by the armies of the French Revolution (especially Napoleon). Finally the modern positivist concept of law conquered the Church in 1917 and paved the way for the Novus Ordo Missae. This part of the story, however, will be unfurled in part II.
Part II
In Part I of this article we sketched the Traditional Catholic understanding of law and authority. All law has its origin either in Natural Law (which has been created by God) or longstanding Custom (which has been established by the usages of Men). The end of law, or its purpose, is to bring about equity, justice and goodness.
Authorities such as the Pope or a secular ruler have plenary authority to make statutes (particular laws) to clarify, sanction and make more particular the principles of Natural Law and Custom. Yet, even if his will makes these laws, a ruler’s will must flow from these two fonts of law. A prince who legislates outside of this legal hierarchy becomes a tyrant. Customs can be overturned by statute but such an extraordinary act is reserved for the suppression of bad customs, those contrary to the Natural or Divine Law. Rulers and authorities are thus the guardians of a slowly and organically developing human law which has its origin in Natural Law and historical Customs.
Cicero succinctly summarized this idea of law in this way:
"Justice is a habit of the mind which attributes its proper dignity to everything, preserving a due regard to the general welfare. Its first principles proceed from nature. Subsequently some practices became established by universal custom, from a consideration of their utility; afterwards the fear of the laws and religion sanctioned proceedings which originated in nature, and had been approved of by custom."[1]
This ancient, traditional understanding of law began to be torn from its moorings in the Enlightenment. Two tendencies combined to undermine this noble concept of law. First, the rationalists of the Enlightenment, the sons of Descartes, viewed the system of law as irrational. It developed gradually over time by the accretions and pruning of generations. It paid great respect to local variety and custom which was consistent with the universal principles of Natural Law.
The rationalists argued that the slate needed to be wiped clean like the tabula rosa they falsely claimed we were born bearing. They detested the local, regional and provincial variety tolerated by customary law. Contravention of Natural Law, or being a bad custom, was too difficult a standard to justify the eradication of what they viewed to be a confusing web of laws. They wanted to rationalize law as they did all disciplines of human thought. They wanted it to become a purely speculative product of pure, unaided human reason (and by this they obviously meant their own reason).
The second force was the rise of several monarchs and rulers who developed a very un-Catholic understanding of authority. The so-called absolute monarchs, beginning with the Tudors of England, wanted to centralize all authority in a national government, or more precisely themselves. “L’etat est moi” was the motto of Louis XIV of France. The absolutists wanted an unconstrained central power before whom all peoples and laws must bend. Local customs and privileges which had emerged gradually like ivy climbing up the side of a house stood in their way. Local and varied customs defied the all-encompassing power they desired. The Natural Law stood in their way. Natural Law stood as a limit on the will of the prince to become force of law.
The absolutists saw in the dream of the rationalists to sweep the law clean and remake it an opportunity to remake law and the idea of authority to their liking. The combination of these tendencies produced the legal positivism of John Austin and later Jeremy Bentham. Law was whatever the sovereign posited as law notwithstanding long standing customs or principles of natural justice. The will of the prince, freed from its ancient constraints, was to be the whole law.
The embodiment of this Frankenstein creation of ideas was the Code. In the dream of the rationalists it was to be a comprehensive, rational creation embodying all the laws of the realm. It would be enacted by the sovereign and would replace, repeal and supersede all prior laws, ordinances and customs. This revolutionary idea percolated throughout the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries but literally needed a revolution to project it from idea to reality. That revolution came in the form of the French Revolution.
When the French Revolution swept away the aspirants to absolute monarchy it merely replaced one power grab for another. The will of the monarch became the General Will of Jean-Jacques Rousseau and Robespierre. Yet, the revolution needed force of arms to sweep the rationalist Code into reality. Napoleon provided the gunpowder.
This megalomaniac saw the immense power of wiping clean the slate and remaking all law by his own authority. A committee was formed to write the Napoleonic Code. The democratically elected dictator apparently took time out from his conquests to take an active part in their novel work of making law. Napoleon then imposed his Code on the continent as he conquered it.
The defeat of Napoleon did not spell the defeat of the Code. At varying times throughout the nineteenth century, vast areas of continental Europe replaced the positivistic Napoleon Code with one of their own (often drawing heavily from the Napoleonic provisions). France, Germany, Spain, Austria and several regions of Italy chose to adopt Codes of their own rather than restore the older legal order to its rightful place. The largest exception throughout the nineteenth century was the Church. (The second largest was England but this is another story). The Church which had led the development of law and legal procedure for centuries retained her corpus juris canonici as a corpus, an intricate, nuanced, living body of law rooted in Natural and Divine Law and longstanding custom.
Yet, the Church who had been the model for virtuous jurisprudence for a millennia did an about-face as the twentieth century dawned. Rather than the secular realm imitating the jurisprudence of the Church, the Church decided to imitate, or accommodate herself, to the secular world. If Codes were the new thing, the Church needed to get with the times.
Cardinal Gaspari was appointed head of a committee that was to study the history of the corpus juris canonici with the purpose of composing a codex juris canonici, a Code of Canon Law. Written by committee it was imposed on the Church by the will of the prince, Pope Benedict XV. With this single act the enormous, intricate tree of ecclesiastical jurisprudence that had been growing up over centuries, with Gratian at its roots, was cut down and replaced by a product of a single committee of a particular time and place.
In fairness, the provisions of the Code of 1917 were fairly conservative and compromises were added that paid a nod to the validity of custom which to the extent not inconsistent with the Code was allowed to remain in force. Still the revolutionary axe had been laid to the root. Custom, tradition, Natural Law were replaced by the work of a committee and imposed by the will of the Sovereign Pontiff.
The utter futility of the project was evident, as with all Codes, to those with eyes to see. Law is meant to be a living organism, developing, growing and being pruned over time in light of new climates and conditions. As with all the European secular Codes, this rationalist work that was meant once and for all to definitively fix all the laws of the Church was revised and supplanted by yet a new definitive Code—the Code of Canon Law of 1983. As could have easily been predicted, this later creation incorporated more liberal ideology and language than its ill-begotten parent.
I would think by this point the parallels in this story to the revolution in the liturgy should be evident. The liturgy, like law, had always been seen as something ancient, organic and developing over time. It was a fusion of long standing customs and practices and perennial truths and principles. It had its great heroes of the past, Leo the Great, Gregory the Great, Pius V. Yet, just as the corpus juris canonici could not be claimed as the work of one man or one committee or one age of history, so too the Liturgy had no single author or generation as its creator. St. Pius V did not create a Liturgy but merely sanctioned and clarified what had developed thus far as the Roman Rite, leaving untouched all other Rites which could show a usage of at least two hundred years.
Just as law was seen as disorderly, too varied, and overgrown by the Enlightenment Liberals, the same charges were leveled by the Liturgical Liberals against the Liturgy. It needed to be purged, purified, rationalized and modernized. It then needed to be imposed on the Church. The liturgical slate had to be wiped clean. A committee was formed; this time Bugnini was its protagonist, Gaspari having gone to his eternal judgment. A committee presumed to do what had been considered presumptuous– compose the Liturgy. They had a precedent. Gaspari had presumed to do the presumptuous– cast aside Custom and Natural Law and compose a code of law.
Like the Code of 1917, the claimed definitive New Order of Mass produced by the Committee had to be revised and is still being revised with a more liberal version. The 1965 Rite gave way to the 1969 which is still in the process of revision. This house made by Men of a particular time is without perennial foundations. The process of creating and imposing the Code of Canon Law was a trial run for the Liturgical Revolution.
Rather than calling Men back to ancient Custom and Eternal Principles, the Liturgical Revolutionaries accommodated the Liturgy of the Church to the world (as its Law had been accommodated to the Spirit of the Age). Bugnini & Co. produced in the words of the Holy Father, as Cardinal Ratzinger, a “banal on the spot Liturgy”. In 1917 the Church stopped being the model for the world as to Law and adopted the Code style of the world; in 1969 the Church surrendered her Liturgy to the same spirit.
To achieve both revolutions, a new understanding of authority needed to be promoted. It is one in which the Pope is unconstrained by Custom and eternal principles. He is the master of the Church, the sovereign prince, and can impose a new Code of Law or a New Ordo of Mass at will. Even Pope Paul VI exhibited discomfort with this novel autocratic accretion to the office of the Vicar of Christ on Earth. He could not bring himself to clearly supplant the ancient customary Liturgy of the Church with the fabricated new one.
In his Apostolic Constitution promulgating the New Mass he merely “wished” that it would be accepted, and, as Benedict XVI has now confirmed, never abrogated the ancient Liturgy. Yet, like the nod to Custom in the 1917 Code, the bureaucrats acted like the organic Liturgy had been cut at the root and de facto suppressed the Liturgy claiming obedience to this novel form of unrestrained autocracy. De facto, the Mass was treated as abrogated just as Gratian de facto virtually disappeared from the study of canon law – out with the Traditional, in with the Novel.
I am not arguing that the promulgation of the Code of 1917 was the sole cause of the Liturgical Revolution. There were many modernist and revolutionary tendencies circulating in the Church that contributed to this event. These facts have been docuмented and analyzed elsewhere. I do find the similarities in approach and philosophy between the two events strikingly similar. If not a cause and effect, I believe both are arms of the same destructive hydra squeezing out much of the gains of history from the body of the Church.
Understanding what once was and what happened to the grand and rich Catholic theory of Law will not only help us argue for the promotion of the Traditional and customary Roman Rite but help us to appreciate what makes that Rite so great. It is drawn from the same wellspring of philosophy – it is a product of the same world view as fed and nourished Catholic legal thought for the entire life of the Church up until the last century. Justice equity, goodness, perennial and universal principles, custom, variety, organic development, restrained authority – all of these once described, and hopefully once again will describe, Catholic Law and Catholic Liturgy.
[1] Cicero De Inventione 2.53.160 etc.
Article Link (http://www.remnantnewspaper.com/Archives/2010-Brian-Novus-Disordo.htm)
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Garbage.
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Garbage.
It's a lot to unpack. Does the author show any differences, any specific examples, between the pre-1917 and 1917 Code of Canon Law? Canon 844 is a big difference between the 1983 Code and the 1917.
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Garbage.
It's a lot to unpack. Does the author show any differences, any specific examples, between the pre-1917 and 1917 Code of Canon Law? Canon 844 is a big difference between the 1983 Code and the 1917.
Well, the mere suposition, namely that codification is something liberal, or bad is laughable. There are many inaccuracies also but I think it is a waste of time to discuss this.
Cristian
PS: btw the civil code of Napoleon, in spite of a couple of objectable articles, is excellent.
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Garbage.
It's a lot to unpack. Does the author show any differences, any specific examples, between the pre-1917 and 1917 Code of Canon Law? Canon 844 is a big difference between the 1983 Code and the 1917.
Well, the mere suposition, namely that codification is something liberal, or bad is laughable. There are many inaccuracies also but I think it is a waste of time to discuss this.
Cristian
PS: btw the civil code of Napoleon, in spite of a couple of objectable articles, is excellent.
I agree. Unless the author (not that he is about to start posting on this forum) has some specific examples, then I think that the burden of proof is on him to show fundamental differences in the 1917 Code verses the pre-1917 codes. Note the plural on the pre-1917. There was, of course, no code of canon law prior to 1917, just an agglomeration of codes. If anything, the 1917 Code standardized things.
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I have nothing to add to what Christian said.
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:reading:
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I have nothing to add to what Christian said.
It sees like the Remnant is a NO publication. I have only read a handful of their articles over the years. Makes me wonder what "remnant" they are trying to represent.
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It took me 15 minutes to read that article. I want my 15 minutes back.
Christian was right, it is total trash. Compost heap, egg shell, empty tuna can, rotten tomatoes trash.
I just shudder whenever I hear Paul VI and Benedict XVI being called "Pope" before their "name". The author made them look to be "caught in the shell shock" of all the changes going on, when in reality THESE MEN were the ones doing the changes.
Remnant can take a hike.
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DITTO
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The author of this article does make a valid point. In the minds of men, the 1917 Code of Canon Law did contribute to a change in the way men viewed law. On the other hand, it was more a recognition of what had been changing in the world rather than leading the charge.
However, and I say this to essentially say that even his one valid point is bunk, his thesis is that since Pope St. Pius X initiated and Pope Benedict XV completed this project that was a novelty in the Church, though not in society at large, we cannot condemn, in principle, the novelties that have become daily fare since 1960.
His backhanded argument is that the novelties of Conciliarism which purport to change the faith, novelties that declare that what was once evil is now good, novelties that declare that the Church was wrong in matters of faith and morals for 1960 years but has now seen the light, should be considered on par with a single novelty (if this is even really the right word) that maintainted the Apostolic faith of the the One, Holy, Catholic Church but made it easier for the non-canon lawyer to know the basic administrative law of the Church.
Ultimately, he argues that since the Church consolidated the whole of the Canons (laws) of the Church into one codex, something never before done, we must accept that the Church can now change those laws willy-nilly so that, for example, the absolute prohibition of giving Holy Communion to non-Christians (i.e., non-Catholics) in the 1917 code can now be allowed in "certain cases" in the 1986 code.
Frankly, for me this article was the beginning of the end of my association with The Remnant. If this publication was going to go to these lengths to justify Conciliarism--a course which began with the election of Cardinal Ratzinger as Benedict 16--I allowed my subscription to lapse. I am not sure why The Remnant editors felt themselves so invested in Ratzinger that they must ignore in him the very things they condemned in John Paul 2. Nor can I understand, as was pointed out earlier in this topic, this idea that the very men leading the charge into hell are simply ignorant of what underlings are doing.
At some point, near the beginning of the crisis, many of our shepherds sold their flocks and became hirelings. They no longer protected the flocks against enemies and would run for cover, leaving the flocks defenseless, at the first sign of ravenous wolves. I know of few shepherds left today, but there are even fewer hirelings for most of the hirelings of the Conciliar Church today have actively joined with the wolves and drive their flocks out of the sheep gate into the jaws of the enemy. It is shameful that The Remnant has become a sheepdog for them chasing after the few sheep who don't want to leave safe environs and try to drive them out of the gate by telling its readers that the Church of Pope St. Pius X and Benedict XV is no safer than the Church of Benedict 16.
It is unfortunate, but the voices we hear today are simply not the same voice we heard before. Those who claim to be shepherds in the Church today drive the sheep in front of them to the desination they wish them to go. The true shepherd lead the sheep and the sheep go voluntarily because they can hear his voice and trust him to lead them to green pastures; they want to go where he leads them. Now, even The Remnant does not trust traditional Catholics to go where these bishops and popes want them to go. Rather than trying to get Catholics to simply move on, the editors should be asking themselves why so many are even more fearful.
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In the minds of men, the 1917 Code of Canon Law did contribute to a change in the way men viewed law. On the other hand, it was more a recognition of what had been changing in the world rather than leading the charge.
I think this is true for any change in the law, even a codification of existing laws. St. Thomas deals with this in the Summa.
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Remember, though, there was no "code of canon law" prior to 1917, at least not in one handy volume.
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Garbage.
It's a lot to unpack. Does the author show any differences, any specific examples, between the pre-1917 and 1917 Code of Canon Law? Canon 844 is a big difference between the 1983 Code and the 1917.
Well, the mere suposition, namely that codification is something liberal, or bad is laughable. There are many inaccuracies also but I think it is a waste of time to discuss this.
Cristian
PS: btw the civil code of Napoleon, in spite of a couple of objectable articles, is excellent.
It was an excellent article. You missed his point entirely. Speaking materially, the mere codification of law is not at issue, but rather the notion (or philosophy) that inspired the codification of law. He simply argues that something had been lost by the Church imitating secular codification, that rather than maintaining an organic body of law, an artifical edifice was put in its place by committee. If you concede with St. Thomas that a single law, otherwise good in itself, can, by change of circuмstances, become injurious, then I fail to see the foundation upon which you argue against his point. Again, considering the civil code of Napoleon materially, in its concete propositions is beside the point. The problem lies in the fact that the entire effort was an affront to the traditional concept of an organic body of law respecting local customs.
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Garbage.
It's a lot to unpack. Does the author show any differences, any specific examples, between the pre-1917 and 1917 Code of Canon Law? Canon 844 is a big difference between the 1983 Code and the 1917.
Well, the mere suposition, namely that codification is something liberal, or bad is laughable. There are many inaccuracies also but I think it is a waste of time to discuss this.
Cristian
PS: btw the civil code of Napoleon, in spite of a couple of objectable articles, is excellent.
It was an excellent article. You missed his point entirely. Speaking materially, the mere codification of law is not at issue, but rather the notion (or philosophy) that inspired the codification of law. He simply argues that something had been lost by the Church imitating secular codification, that rather than maintaining an organic body of law, an artifical edifice was put in its place by committee. If you concede with St. Thomas that a single law, otherwise good in itself, can, by change of circuмstances, become injurious, then I fail to see the foundation upon which you argue against his point. Again, considering the civil code of Napoleon materially, in its concete propositions is beside the point. The problem lies in the fact that the entire effort was an affront to the traditional concept of an organic body of law respecting local customs.
The Church has become more "international" since the Age of Discovery, and having one Code of Canon Law keeps everyone on the "same page" (no pun intended.) During the Middle Ages, there was some variance in liturgy and practice from one place to the next. In spite of what many people think, the Pope was rather weak during the Middle Ages, spent much of his Pontificate in hiding and on the run, and bishops were often the vassals, more or less, of kings. If anything, the 1917 Code of Canon Law gave Rome more authority, not less.
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What about Gratian and the Corpus Juris Canonici, that wasn't a "codification" in relation to the localized grab-bags of laws that had come before? And those localized grab-bags, that wasn't a codification in relation to what came before, when the laws were probably known by "word of mouth," for lack of a better term, but weren't collected in any one place?
It seems to me that the organization of information has been getting steadily more refined through history, along with the improved means of communication, and that the 1917 Code was a refinement, not a break. Apart from that, I'm no historian of canon law, so I'll shut my trap.
TKGS, besides the editorial board of the Remnant, I can think of a certain other group whose MO is to drag everything about the Church through the mud, often saying, with an accuracy that leaves much to be desired, that "many Popes were heretics" in order to justify the Vatican II impostors. The amount of people who have taken up the art of contortionism to justify formal, manifest heretics who have nearly destroyed the entire Church is a phenomenon of our time that future generations will marvel at -- if it's possible to marvel while crouching over a bucket and puking copiously.
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TKGS, besides the editorial board of the Remnant, I can think of a certain other group whose MO is to drag everything about the Church through the mud, often saying, with an accuracy that leaves much to be desired, that "many Popes were heretics" in order to justify the Vatican II impostors. The amount of people who have taken up the art of contortionism to justify formal, manifest heretics who have nearly destroyed the entire Church is a phenomenon of our time that future generations will marvel at -- if it's possible to marvel while crouching over a bucket and puking copiously.
Really? I'm curious as to what group it is. Do they unambiguously declare that many popes were heretics or do they merely imply it?
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Garbage.
It's a lot to unpack. Does the author show any differences, any specific examples, between the pre-1917 and 1917 Code of Canon Law? Canon 844 is a big difference between the 1983 Code and the 1917.
Well, the mere suposition, namely that codification is something liberal, or bad is laughable. There are many inaccuracies also but I think it is a waste of time to discuss this.
Cristian
PS: btw the civil code of Napoleon, in spite of a couple of objectable articles, is excellent.
You missed his point entirely.
No. I didn´t. :)
Speaking materially, the mere codification of law is not at issue, but rather the notion (or philosophy) that inspired the codification of law.
Ok, so according to you the codification of Canon Law had the (supossed) same "philosophy" than the Code of Napoleon? If yes, prove it, if not what is the matter then?
He simply argues that something had been lost by the Church imitating secular codification, that rather than maintaining an organic body of law, an artifical edifice was put in its place by committee.
FYI it was not an organic body anymore. Many Bishops during Vat. I had already asked Pius IX to organize the laws of the Church (see the article on Catholic Encyclopedia under the title "codification" http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09056a.htm ) and Benedict XV Himself admited the situation previous to the codification was deficient. Here are His words taken from Providentissima Mater, the Bull promulgating the Code:
Pur tuttavia, come sapientemente rilevò lo stesso Pio X, Nostro Predecessore di felice memoria nel Motu proprio « Arduum sane » del 17 marzo 1904, essendo mutate le condizioni storiche e le esigenze degli uomini, com’è naturale, il diritto canonico non apparve ormai più in grado di rispondere in tutto e per tutto ai suoi obiettivi. Nel corso dei secoli, infatti, erano state promulgate moltissime leggi; alcune di queste furono abrogate dalla suprema autorità della Chiesa oppure caddero in disuso; altre apparvero di difficile applicazione in rapporto ai tempi o meno utili al bene comune o meno adeguate. A ciò si aggiunge il fatto che il numero delle leggi canoniche si era tanto accresciuto, ed esse vagavano così scoordinate e disperse, che molte di esse risultavano sconosciute non soltanto al popolo, ma agli stessi esperti di diritto.
Which is something like:
Besides as it was wisely said by Pius X in His Motu proprio Ardumm Sane, having changed the historical conditions and legislations of men, as it is natural, canon law was no longer able to respond completely it aims. During the centuries, in fact, a number of laws were promulgated, some of which were abrogated by the supreme authority if the Church or fall into disuse; other laws became hard to apply during the course of time or less useful to the common good or less suitable. To this it was added that the number of canonical laws have increased very much and wondered disjointed and dispersed in such a way that many of them were unknown not only to the people but also to the expert ones.
The same thoughts were laid down by Benedict in an allocution on 1916:
[1] Inasmuch as matters from all places are wont to be sent to this Apostolic See for decision, they cannot all be treated, as of old, in Consistory—for they are more frequent these days and many of them will suffer no delay—still, we may retain that outstanding practice we received from our Predecessors, whereby, should something affect the Christian body politic, we may communicate it to you gathered in this solemn assembly. In this vein, it is most gratifying to us to be able to bring to you something so great and opportune for the Church that these days might seem noble to posterity. We speak of the Code of Canon Law, happily completed, which We indeed, in accord with your wishes, we will promulgate as soon as possible. For since that signal day when we in ceremony received the supreme Pontificate, We rightly remember what was conveyed to Us by our cherished and venerable Brother, Cardinal Antonio Agliardi, when he congratulated us in the name of your great Order [Cf. AAS 6 (1914) 500, wherein Agliardi's famous exclamation, "Da nobis Codicem!" probably occurred].
[2] Certainly, even if it does some others (Brian McCall, take note!), it does not escape you, Venerable Brothers, how the laws and prescriptions laid down in the providence and care of mother Church, have over the ages, by continual accretion from the beginning until now, swelled to such a mass that it is hardly possible even for those most expert in the law to have awareness and knowledge of all of them. Moreover, many established canons, with the changing of the times, no longer corresponded to manners, and stand in need of apt and prudent correction. So much better, and so good for improving discipline, would be establishing which rights and institutes have force in the Church, so that it finally appeared needful that a code be produced from the laws of the Church, one which could be easily consulted by hand: not only did Bishops and Clergy look for this, but so did all those who gave themselves to the study of Canon Law. Although the Apostolic See had long considered this same project, many great difficulties stood in the way of undertaking it. Evidently it was divinely foreseen that, for such an important service, praise would be owed to the talent of Pius X, our Predecessor of holy memory. You know, Venerable Brothers, with what alacrity of spirit, hardly into his Pontificate, he undertook the vast project, and by what dedication and constancy, while he held the reins of governance in the Church, he pursued it. But if it was not permitted him to complete what he started, he should nevertheless be considered as the one author of this Code, and therefore his name, with Innocent III, Honorius III, and Gregory IX, among the most outstanding Pontiffs in the history of Canon Law, will forever be proclaimed: It will be enough if it falls to us to promulgate what he has done. – Now, for the skills and efforts they brought to the parts of this undertaking, each and every one from the Sacred College of Cardinals, from the order of Bishops, from both [secular and religious] Clergy, and from the ranks of the laity, should have for himself the sign of a grateful spirit from the Vicar of Jesus Christ. By these our words we willingly perform a task and office at once a pleasant and delightful, a task that our Predecessor left for us. But special praise and gratitude must go to our beloved Son, Cardinal Pietro Gasparri, who indeed in the production of the Code was burdened with more than others, [but who] undertook it from the beginning, and extended to it his outstanding abilities, not only his scientific knowledge of the law, but also his perseverance of study and effort, all the which hardly suffered intermission when, as prefect of Public Affairs, he began to take up other serious occupations.
[3] For these reasons, we are confident that this legal project of great weight and surpassing opportunity will work for the great strengthening of the nerves of ecclesiastical discipline: for it restores awareness of the laws of the Church, and therefore will help not a little in their observance, with fruit for souls and advancement of the catholic name. This is obviously true of any human society, and so also does it apply in that civil association of all peoples, so that, where obedience to law is solemnized, there in the folds of peace things can flower abundantly; but where the authority of law is wont to be neglected or spurned, there, trampled by discord and cupidity, both privately and publicly, everything is disturbed. If this requires any confirmation, the course of things in which we find ourselves, confirms it to the utmost. Do not the horrors of this insane war, that devastates Europe, proclaim how much ruin and destruction befalls those who show contempt for the laws by which mutual relations of men are tempered? For, just look, in such a conflict of peoples, which sacred things, or administrators of the sacred, even those of outstanding dignity, and most holy whether by divine law or by the law of nations, are unworthily violated; or how so many quiet citizens are torn far from home, amid the tears of mothers, husbands, and children; or unarmed and wholly defenseless cities are vexed by powerful aerial incursions; all over the earth and on the seas such atrocities are committed that flood the soul with horror and grief. But for Us, deploring this veritable mountain of evils, and again reprobating whatever comes about unjustly in this war, wherever and howsoever it happens, it is a deep desire, and one that God wants to bring about, that in some way through the promulgation of the new Code, contributing to a more tranquil Church, as we hope, with a more fruitful age to arise, so with civil society, with order restored by reverence for law and justice, the looked-for peace will quickly shine out, which, with peoples once again reconciled as friends, will bear the fruit of all goods....
http://www.canonlaw.info/a_17trans.htm#Docuмent%202
Roma locuta... causa finita?
If you concede with St. Thomas that a single law, otherwise good in itself, can, by change of circuмstances, become injurious, then I fail to see the foundation upon which you argue against his point.
Sorry, I don´t follow you here.
Again, considering the civil code of Napoleon materially, in its concete propositions is beside the point. The problem lies in the fact that the entire effort was an affront to the traditional concept of an organic body of law respecting local customs.
Quod probandum est. Besides even if you prove that, you still have to prove that a codification is in itself liberal and/or the Church had that liberal point of view when promulgated the code.
Valete!
Cristian
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Besides even if you prove that, you still have to prove that a codification is in itself liberal and/or the Church had that liberal point of view when promulgated the code.
That's a red herring that I pointed out in the above post. No one denies the utility of having a single Code, the problem that the author points out is that the philosophy adopted in codification of civil and ecclesiastical law detracted from a certain understanding of origin of law itself and such an attitude paved the way for enormous reforms by way of committee that did not respect tradition. By analogy, one could posit that the natural growth of corn is like the old system whereas the process by which all laws are revised and codified is akin to ripping the corn out of the ground, shipping it to a factory, processing it and putting it in cans for consumption.
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Ok, so according to you the codification of Canon Law had the (supossed) same "philosophy" than the Code of Napoleon? If yes, prove it, if not what is the matter then?
It's the author's contention that such an effort was born of the same mentality or that it was the Church beginning to imitate in some measure the secular world. I can't prove what is materially evident, because it's evident, whether or not the same philosophy was adopted is an historical question which probably cannot be answered. One thing is certain, the product of the 1917 Code certainly gave the audacious reformers precident and impetus. Such was an unintended evil that the original legislators could never foresee.
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Caminus said:
One thing is certain, the product of the 1917 Code certainly gave the audacious reformers precident and impetus. Such was an unintended evil that the original legislators could never foresee.
That has nothing to do with the 1917 Code being good or bad in itself.
You could say the same for the dogma of papal infallibility, that it played into the hands of the revolutionaries ( not reformers ) because it made more people afraid to question the Pope about anything. Actually, I vaguely remember hearing this being said by someone... Yet it's still a dogma.
Your logic, if followed, could stretch back to infinity. You could complain that St. Peter establishing the Church in Rome made it an easy target for the revolutionaries of Vatican II.
You could say, as I once did, and as Jehanne still does, that the concept of implicit faith opened the door for ecuмenism bordering on the philosophy of implicit universal salvation, etc., etc.
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Ok, so according to you the codification of Canon Law had the (supossed) same "philosophy" than the Code of Napoleon? If yes, prove it, if not what is the matter then?
It's the author's contention that such an effort was born of the same mentality or that it was the Church beginning to imitate in some measure the secular world. I can't prove what is materially evident, because it's evident, whether or not the same philosophy was adopted is an historical question which probably cannot be answered. One thing is certain, the product of the 1917 Code certainly gave the audacious reformers precident and impetus. Such was an unintended evil that the original legislators could never foresee.
Ok we have both said what we think on this, I prefer to follow several Popes (who cannot be labeled as "liberal") as well as all the Bishops and eminent canonists who knew much more than the unknown author!
It is obvious the author just wanted to put the pre vat. reforms at the same level as the post vat... but he didn´t succeeded, good luck for the next one! :cheers:
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TKGS said:
Really? I'm curious as to what group it is. Do they unambiguously declare that many popes were heretics or do they merely imply it?
This made me laugh out loud. I thought I was being the very opposite of subtle.
The answer to your question is -- "A group that I try not to talk about as much since being banished from the site, founded by a slender French man who once worked in Africa." :dancing:
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Caminus said:
One thing is certain, the product of the 1917 Code certainly gave the audacious reformers precident and impetus. Such was an unintended evil that the original legislators could never foresee.
That has nothing to do with the 1917 Code being good or bad in itself.
You could say the same for the dogma of papal infallibility, that it played into the hands of the revolutionaries ( not reformers ) because it made more people afraid to question the Pope about anything. Actually, I vaguely remember hearing this being said by someone... Yet it's still a dogma.
Your logic, if followed, could stretch back to infinity. You could complain that St. Peter establishing the Church in Rome made it an easy target for the revolutionaries of Vatican II.
You could say, as I once did, and as Jehanne still does, that the concept of implicit faith opened the door for ecuмenism bordering on the philosophy of implicit universal salvation, etc., etc.
The 1917 Code is good in itself. Your infinite analogies are irrelevant because none of them involve the Church adopting a principle of action of the secular world. It was precisely this mentality which helped, i.e. was possibly one of the various causes, of the massive reforms within the Church in the 1960's. A small error in principle can lead to large errors in consequence. Your scenarios amount to positing a series of negative reasons for doubting something which is an essentially irrational approach to reality. In moral theology, such a method is reprehensible. But nothing prevents a thing intrinsically good to have evil effects per accidens in consequence.
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Ok, so according to you the codification of Canon Law had the (supossed) same "philosophy" than the Code of Napoleon? If yes, prove it, if not what is the matter then?
It's the author's contention that such an effort was born of the same mentality or that it was the Church beginning to imitate in some measure the secular world. I can't prove what is materially evident, because it's evident, whether or not the same philosophy was adopted is an historical question which probably cannot be answered. One thing is certain, the product of the 1917 Code certainly gave the audacious reformers precident and impetus. Such was an unintended evil that the original legislators could never foresee.
Ok we have both said what we think on this, I prefer to follow several Popes (who cannot be labeled as "liberal") as well as all the Bishops and eminent canonists who knew much more than the unknown author!
It is obvious the author just wanted to put the pre vat. reforms at the same level as the post vat... but he didn´t succeeded, good luck for the next one! :cheers:
Not really, I don't think you've succeeded in even addressing his point.
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Caminus said:
One thing is certain, the product of the 1917 Code certainly gave the audacious reformers precident and impetus. Such was an unintended evil that the original legislators could never foresee.
That has nothing to do with the 1917 Code being good or bad in itself.
You could say the same for the dogma of papal infallibility, that it played into the hands of the revolutionaries ( not reformers ) because it made more people afraid to question the Pope about anything. Actually, I vaguely remember hearing this being said by someone... Yet it's still a dogma.
Your logic, if followed, could stretch back to infinity. You could complain that St. Peter establishing the Church in Rome made it an easy target for the revolutionaries of Vatican II.
You could say, as I once did, and as Jehanne still does, that the concept of implicit faith opened the door for ecuмenism bordering on the philosophy of implicit universal salvation, etc., etc.
Big difference, of course. St. Peter, establishing the Church (not Peter, of course, but our Lord Jesus Christ), is well represented in the ancient Fathers and Magisterial teaching. Implicit faith is nowhere to be found, at least not explicitly.