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Author Topic: The pope/head of 2 different Churches  (Read 1637 times)

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Offline LeDeg

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The pope/head of 2 different Churches
« on: September 24, 2020, 01:22:06 PM »
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    • According to Avrille, the rebuttal to sedevacantism about the claimants since Vatican II is that they are the popes of two different churches/religions. 


    I am wondering how this does not reduce the position down to the claimant to being Christ's Vicar one day, and Satan's the next? He works to build the Church for Christ one moment, and then carry out the work of devil the next?


    Could Francis, for example, be the pope and at the same time the Archbishop of Canterbury (Anglican) according to traditional ecclesiology? 
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    Offline Yeti

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    Re: The pope/head of 2 different Churches
    « Reply #1 on: September 24, 2020, 03:00:15 PM »
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    • Hilarious. Do they think the pope can also be the imam of a local mosque at the same time? :laugh1:
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: The pope/head of 2 different Churches
    « Reply #2 on: September 24, 2020, 03:18:17 PM »
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    • http://www.dominicansavrille.us/is-there-a-conciliar-church/

    Umm, the study is merely introduced by Avrille, but written by +de Mallerais, and reflective of the position of +Lefebvre and the SSPX (until 2012, anyway).
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    Offline LeDeg

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    Re: The pope/head of 2 different Churches
    « Reply #3 on: September 24, 2020, 03:34:01 PM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on September 24, 2020, 03:18:17 PM
    http://www.dominicansavrille.us/is-there-a-conciliar-church/

    Umm, the study is merely introduced by Avrille, but written by +de Mallerais, and reflective of the position of +Lefebvre and the SSPX (until 2012, anyway).
    Fair enough. The question stands.
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    Offline forlorn

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    Re: The pope/head of 2 different Churches
    « Reply #4 on: September 24, 2020, 03:39:58 PM »
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    • Quote from: Yeti on September 24, 2020, 03:00:15 PM
    Hilarious. Do they think the pope can also be the imam of a local mosque at the same time? :laugh1:
    They'll also tell you that the New Mass was never promulgated for the Catholic Church, but that the pope actually promulgated it for the Conciliar Church instead by accident, even though he said he was promulgating it for the Catholic Church. Easy resolution, no? 
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    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: The pope/head of 2 different Churches
    « Reply #5 on: September 24, 2020, 03:57:54 PM »
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    • Quote from: forlorn on September 24, 2020, 03:39:58 PM
    They'll also tell you that the New Mass was never promulgated for the Catholic Church, but that the pope actually promulgated it for the Conciliar Church instead by accident, even though he said he was promulgating it for the Catholic Church. Easy resolution, no?
    Huh?  All I know is that Our Lord said you can’t serve two masters.
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: The pope/head of 2 different Churches
    « Reply #6 on: September 24, 2020, 04:21:50 PM »
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    • Quote from: forlorn on September 24, 2020, 03:39:58 PM
    They'll also tell you that the New Mass was never promulgated for the Catholic Church, but that the pope actually promulgated it for the Conciliar Church instead by accident, even though he said he was promulgating it for the Catholic Church. Easy resolution, no?
    Sedes and Fellayists and conciliarists do not distinguish between the conciliar church and the Catholic Church.
    Nothing new there.
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: The pope/head of 2 different Churches
    « Reply #7 on: September 24, 2020, 04:22:43 PM »
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    • Quote from: Seraphina on September 24, 2020, 03:57:54 PM
    Huh?  All I know is that Our Lord said you can’t serve two masters.
    Which is why Lefebvre chose to serve the Catholic Church, and declare it a strict duty to separate from the conciliar church.
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    Offline forlorn

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    Re: The pope/head of 2 different Churches
    « Reply #8 on: September 24, 2020, 04:34:35 PM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on September 24, 2020, 04:21:50 PM
    Sedes and Fellayists and conciliarists do not distinguish between the conciliar church and the Catholic Church.
    Nothing new there.
    And Old Catholics could just as easily say that (V1) "conciliarists" do not distinguish between the (V1) conciliar church and the Catholic Church. It's unfalsifiable(and also unproveable) nonsense.
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: The pope/head of 2 different Churches
    « Reply #9 on: September 24, 2020, 04:49:21 PM »
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    • Quote from: forlorn on September 24, 2020, 04:34:35 PM
    And Old Catholics could just as easily say that (V1) "conciliarists" do not distinguish between the (V1) conciliar church and the Catholic Church. It's unfalsifiable(and also unproveable) nonsense.
    Nonsense: Vatican 1 was infallible, and Vatican 2 was not.
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    Offline forlorn

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    Re: The pope/head of 2 different Churches
    « Reply #10 on: September 24, 2020, 04:54:28 PM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on September 24, 2020, 04:49:21 PM
    Nonsense: Vatican 1 was infallible, and Vatican 2 was not.
    "Ah, but you see, it was a council of the Conciliar Church. Not the Catholic Church."

    You can come to any nonsensical conclusion you like if you can unilaterally declare any action of the Church to have actually been done by a parallel Church you claim exists. And it's completely unfalsifiable. Pope does anything I like? Done for the Catholic Church. Anything I don't like? Done for the parallel Church said pope doesn't even believe exists. No way to prove me wrong on that if I insist that even the pope saying he does it for the Catholic Church isn't enough.
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: The pope/head of 2 different Churches
    « Reply #11 on: September 24, 2020, 04:56:39 PM »
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    • Quote from: forlorn on September 24, 2020, 04:54:28 PM
    "Ah, but you see, it was an council Conciliar Church. Not the Catholic Church."

    You can come to any nonsensical conclusion you like if you can unilaterally declare any action of the Church to have actually been done by a parallel Church you claim exists. And it's completely unfalsifiable. Pope does anything I like? Done for the Catholic Church. Anything I don't like? Done for the parallel Church said pope doesn't even believe exists. No way to prove me wrong on that if I insist that even the pope saying he does it for the Catholic Church isn't enough.

    Nonsense: The Catholic Church is infallible, and the conciliar church is not.

    This sede attempt to lump in Vatican 2 with all other councils is embarrassing.

    Meanwhile, the irony of being chastised for allegedly unilaterally discarding a council by a man who unilaterally discards the last 6 popes is too thick to avoid mention.
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    Offline forlorn

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    Re: The pope/head of 2 different Churches
    « Reply #12 on: September 24, 2020, 04:58:29 PM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on September 24, 2020, 04:56:39 PM
    Nonsense: The Catholic Church is infallible, and the conciliar church is not.
    This sede attempt to lump in Vatican 2 with all other councils is embarrassing.
    "The Catholic Church is infallible, and the conciliar church is not." - a hypothetical Old Catholic.

    What's the difference in principle between you saying it and him saying it? Both of you are just inventing churches to dismiss acts of the Church at your pleasure. 
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: The pope/head of 2 different Churches
    « Reply #13 on: September 24, 2020, 05:00:44 PM »
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    • Quote from: forlorn on September 24, 2020, 04:58:29 PM
    "The Catholic Church is infallible, and the conciliar church is not." - a hypothetical Old Catholic.

    What's the difference in principle between you saying it and him saying it? Both of you are just inventing churches to dismiss acts of the Church at your pleasure.
    Forlorn-
    If you are too thick headed or dishonest to note the difference between infallible and infallible councils, I don’t think I can help you.
    Good luck!
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: The pope/head of 2 different Churches
    « Reply #14 on: September 24, 2020, 05:04:16 PM »
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    • Just wanted to note before signing out that there are presently 11 members signed in, of whom 6 are sedes.

    Cathinfo is the de facto sedevacantist headquarters (which tolerates the Resistance).
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