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Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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The Pope Francis Effect: The war on conservative
« on: August 13, 2014, 10:48:24 AM »
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  • http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/08/12/pope-francis-effect-war-on-conservative-catholics-in-new-york/

    Vatican
    The 'Pope Francis Effect': The war on conservative Catholics in New York
    Adam Shaw

    Published August 12, 2014
    FoxNews.com


    When Cardinal Bergoglio was elected pope in 2013, many traditional Catholics were wary. Recently, their pessimism is being justified as "The Francis Effect" makes itself felt across the world and in America, most notably in the Archdiocese of New York.

    So-called "traditional" Catholics prefer to attend the Mass as it was celebrated before and during the Second Vatican Council (1962-5), before the liturgy was radically reformed in 1969.

    The Tridentine Mass, which was the ordinary form of the Mass from 1570-1969, is said in Latin, often accompanied by Gregorian Chant and incense, and emphasizes the sacrificial aspect of the Mass.

        I hope both Pope Francis and the New York Archdiocese will cease their attack on a community of people that mean no harm and who support the Church through thick and thin.

    In contrast, the post-1969 Mass simplifies prayers, places more emphasis on the communal and removes language deemed to be an ecuмenical barrier to Protestants. Many celebrations also use the vernacular instead of Latin, and have a more simplistic style and are frequently accompanied by modern music.

    Although suppressed immediately after the reform, the older rite was legalized by Pope St. John Paul II in limited circuмstances in 1988, and then freed up entirely by Pope Benedict XVI in his groundbreaking 2007 docuмent "Summorum Pontificuм," in which he also expressed his desire that the solemn celebration of the traditional rite would consequently rub off on the way the new rite is celebrated.

    Yet Pope Francis is having none of it. In his Archdiocese in Buenos Aires, the traditional rite was non-existent, and he was described by an Argentinian journalist as "a sworn enemy of the Traditional Mass." Since he ascended to the papacy this has been shown to be true in a global sense.

    Apart from his dive away from the traditional liturgical style of Benedict in papal masses, Pope Francis has dismissed Catholics who attend the older rites in Latin as 'ideologizing' and being guilty of 'exploitation.' He also banned the Franciscans of the Immaculate -- a worldwide traditional Catholic order -- from celebrating the old Mass freely. Apparently, the attitude of "Who am I to judge" does not apply here.

    No wonder then that some bishops and cardinals are seeing the winds of change at the Vatican and are acting accordingly.

    In New York, under the leadership of the once moderately conservative Timothy Cardinal Dolan, the Archdiocese was a place that allowed the traditional mass to be said without hassle after Summorum Pontificuм.

    However, since Pope Francis arrived, Dolan -- commonly referred to as "America's Pope" -- has shifted to the left, so much so that even the New York Times has noticed. Dolan has become a spokesman for Francis' view of capitalism, has softened on gαy rights, been an even stauncher advocate of amnesty for illegal immigrants and incredibly -- criticized ObamaCare because it didn't provide free health care to illegals, putting him to the left of Nancy Peℓσѕι.

    Now he's turned on the traditionalists.

    There are three churches in Manhattan that celebrate the Traditional Mass. One -- Our Savior's near Grand Central, had its pastor removed by Cardinal Dolan and replaced by a priest who could not say the old Mass, so it has been stopped.

    Earlier this year, it was announced that the internationally-renowned Church of Holy Innocents, the well-attended hub of traditionalism in the city packed with masses, devotions, and regular confessions, all within one of the most beautiful churches in the archdiocese, has been recommended for closure by an archdiocesan commission.

    The news shocked traditional Catholics all over the world and has become an international symbol especially as it is well attended and in good financial state.

    Church closures and consolidations should be about getting rid of churches that are losing money or have no one attending. Masses at Holy Innocents are frequently standing room only, and docuмents I was shown suggest that Holy Innocents has run a surplus for the last seven years, and has no debt. This is in contrast to some parishes with no threat of closure that have 6-figure deficits, while other parishes openly dissent from Church teaching free from any scrutiny from the once-conservative archdiocese.

    Holy Innocents, devastated by this news that they are earmarked for closure, have organized petitions and are saying daily rosaries and novenas to pray for the preservation of their beloved church.

    Consequently at a recent Mass, Rev. Justin Wylie, a priest from South Africa who worked at the U.N. for the Holy See and who said regular masses both at Holy Innocents and at the third place of traditional worship -- St. Agnes -- compared the situation for traditionalists in the archdiocese to Reformation England and Cromwellian Ireland. Wylie asked traditionalists "why are you scurrying about like ecclesiastical scavengers, hoping for a scrap or two to fall from the table for your very existence?" and called on them to peacefully assert their rights as baptized Catholics.

    This was apparently too much in the era of Pope Francis.

    Sources told me that a letter was immediately sent to the papal nuncio to the U.N. and, incredibly, to Wylie's archdiocese in Johannesburg, scolding Wylie for his comments and threatening to recommend Wylie's priestly faculties be removed -- an extremely serious move that essentially prevents a priest from acting as one and is usually reserved for very serious accusations like sɛҳuąƖ abuse, not upsetting a cardinal.

    Sources say that after the letter was received, Rev. Wylie, in a move that sounds more like something from Inquisition-era Spain than from modern day New York, was then silenced,  forbidden from celebrating Mass publicly, and told to pack his bags and leave for South Africa as soon as possible.

    Msgr. Edward Weber, head of the Priest Personnel office for the Archdiocese, who would normally be responsible for such a letter, denied that the letter existed when I spoke to him by phone, despite previously being reported on a traditional blog as saying the order came from the Cardinal's office. Weber told me he had been misquoted.

    Later, the archdiocese admitted in a statement that there had indeed been a letter, but said it did not come from the Cardinal's desk, and it did not threaten to remove Wylie's faculties. When I asked if they had threatened to recommend that he have his faculties removed, the archdiocese did not respond.

    Wylie's silencing and banishment is devastating for traditional Catholics. Not only is Wylie a renowned preacher, known for solemn celebration and exceptionally beautiful homilies that are so revered they are frequently uploaded to YouTube, he was an important priest both at Holy Innocents, and also at St. Agnes, where he celebrated three out of four traditional masses a month. His move consequently threatens the regularity of the ancient rites there too, as Rev. Wylie's censuring has had a chilling effect on priests who would consider taking over his role.

    This chilling effect has spread to non-clergy too. Many of those, clergy and lay people, with whom I spoke who provided me with information and docuмents on the situation first demanded anonymity in fear that they and the people with whom they are associated would be retaliated against by Cardinal Dolan's administration.

    "There will be retaliation if our names appear in your article," one source told me. "We have already received hints of this [from the archdiocese]."

    This it appears, is an all too real example of "The Francis Effect," where dissenters are pandered to and enemies of the Church have their bellies scratched, while those who sacrifice for the Church, battle on the front lines, and just wish to pray at a good liturgy steeped in the traditional beauty of the Church are attacked, insulted, and if they dare so much emit a squeak of annoyance, find themselves cast out of the Church.

    I hope both Pope Francis and the New York Archdiocese will cease their attack on a community of people that mean no harm and who support the Church through thick and thin.

    Unfortunately however, I fear we may be seeing the latest in a long series of pernicious events under the banner of "The Francis Effect."

    I hope I am wrong.

    Adam Shaw is a News Editor for FoxNews.com. He can be reached here or on Twitter: @AdamShawNY

    Emphasis mine
    The love of God be your motivation, the will of God your guiding principle, the glory of God your goal.
    (St. Clement Mary Hofbauer)


    Offline Petertherock

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    The Pope Francis Effect: The war on conservative
    « Reply #1 on: August 13, 2014, 11:00:57 AM »
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  • Quote
    Although suppressed immediately after the reform, the older rite was legalized by Pope St. John Paul II in limited circuмstances in 1988, and then freed up entirely by Pope Benedict XVI in his groundbreaking 2007 docuмent "Summorum Pontificuм," in which he also expressed his desire that the solemn celebration of the traditional rite would consequently rub off on the way the new rite is celebrated.


    I really wish people would get their facts right. The TLM was never suppressed...it can't be according to the Council of Trent. Although the effect was the same, this article makes it look like JPII (we don't like you) "legalized" something that was never illegal in the first place.

    But I will say good on Fox News for reporting on this.



    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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    The Pope Francis Effect: The war on conservative
    « Reply #2 on: August 13, 2014, 12:17:23 PM »
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  • This article is interesting because of the comments of Fr. Justin Wylie and the reaction to these comments by the Archdiocese of New York and the Vatican commissars.  
       
    Quote from: FoxNews
    Consequently at a recent Mass, Rev. Justin Wylie, a priest from South Africa who worked at the U.N. for the Holy See and who said regular masses both at Holy Innocents and at the third place of traditional worship -- St. Agnes -- compared the situation for traditionalists in the archdiocese to Reformation England and Cromwellian Ireland. Wylie asked traditionalists "why are you scurrying about like ecclesiastical scavengers, hoping for a scrap or two to fall from the table for your very existence?" and called on them to peacefully assert their rights as baptized Catholics.

    This was apparently too much in the era of Pope Francis.

    Sources told me that a letter was immediately sent to the papal nuncio to the U.N. and, incredibly, to Wylie's archdiocese in Johannesburg, scolding Wylie for his comments and threatening to recommend Wylie's priestly faculties be removed -- an extremely serious move that essentially prevents a priest from acting as one and is usually reserved for very serious accusations like sɛҳuąƖ abuse, not upsetting a cardinal.

    Sources say that after the letter was received, Rev. Wylie, in a move that sounds more like something from Inquisition-era Spain than from modern day New York, was then silenced,  forbidden from celebrating Mass publicly, and told to pack his bags and leave for South Africa as soon as possible.


    The Vatican is very nervous about traditional Catholics who affirm their rights to the immemorial traditions of the Catholic Church.  My family has been involved with Ss. Peter & Paul Roman Catholic Mission in York, PA for the last 14 years.  The purpose of the Mission is to make publically two important claims:

    1) The immemorial ecclesiastical traditions of the Church are not, and could never be, matters of simple discipline, but are necessary attributes of the Catholic Faith by which is can be known and communicated to others.
    Every Catholic by divine duty is obliged to profess the Catholic Faith and worship God in the public forum.  Therefore, for the purpose of fulfilling these duties to God, every Catholic possess the right from God to the immemorial traditions which are the perfect outward manifestation of the Faith that must hold in the internal forum for salvation.

    2) Dogmas of the Catholic faith are immutable truths revealed by God that constitute the formal objects of divine and Catholics Faith and suitable for all the faithful.

    We have demanded through the ordinaries of hαɾɾιsburg and Philadelphia definitive judgments on these questions from the Holy Father through the CDF.  I am not naive about obtaining a favorable judgment but what we are doing is what every faithful Catholic is called upon to do.  For this I have seen many efforts of the most underhanded kind by the Diocese of hαɾɾιsburg, the Archdiocese of Philadelphia and the SSPX to destroy the Mission's work.  The effort by them has been so disproportionate to our size that we know we touched the right nerve.

    The arguments of the Mission were detailed in a recent exchanges between our priest, Fr. Samuel Waters, and the Archdiocese of Philadelphia and the CDF.  

    http://www.saintspeterandpaulrcm.com/open_letters_WATERS_SULLIVAN_CHAPUT.htm
    The love of God be your motivation, the will of God your guiding principle, the glory of God your goal.
    (St. Clement Mary Hofbauer)

    Offline Meg

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    The Pope Francis Effect: The war on conservative
    « Reply #3 on: August 13, 2014, 12:35:54 PM »
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  • Quote from: Marie Auxiliadora
    This article is interesting because of the comments of Fr. Justin Wylie and the reaction to these comments by the Archdiocese of New York and the Vatican commissars.  
       
    Quote from: FoxNews
    Consequently at a recent Mass, Rev. Justin Wylie, a priest from South Africa who worked at the U.N. for the Holy See and who said regular masses both at Holy Innocents and at the third place of traditional worship -- St. Agnes -- compared the situation for traditionalists in the archdiocese to Reformation England and Cromwellian Ireland. Wylie asked traditionalists "why are you scurrying about like ecclesiastical scavengers, hoping for a scrap or two to fall from the table for your very existence?" and called on them to peacefully assert their rights as baptized Catholics.

    This was apparently too much in the era of Pope Francis.

    Sources told me that a letter was immediately sent to the papal nuncio to the U.N. and, incredibly, to Wylie's archdiocese in Johannesburg, scolding Wylie for his comments and threatening to recommend Wylie's priestly faculties be removed -- an extremely serious move that essentially prevents a priest from acting as one and is usually reserved for very serious accusations like sɛҳuąƖ abuse, not upsetting a cardinal.

    Sources say that after the letter was received, Rev. Wylie, in a move that sounds more like something from Inquisition-era Spain than from modern day New York, was then silenced,  forbidden from celebrating Mass publicly, and told to pack his bags and leave for South Africa as soon as possible.


    The Vatican is very nervous about traditional Catholics who affirm their rights to the immemorial traditions of the Catholic Church.  My family has been involved with Ss. Peter & Paul Roman Catholic Mission in York, PA for the last 14 years.  The purpose of the Mission is to make publically two important claims:

    1) The immemorial ecclesiastical traditions of the Church are not, and could never be, matters of simple discipline, but are necessary attributes of the Catholic Faith by which is can be known and communicated to others.
    Every Catholic by divine duty is obliged to profess the Catholic Faith and worship God in the public forum.  Therefore, for the purpose of fulfilling these duties to God, every Catholic possess the right from God to the immemorial traditions which are the perfect outward manifestation of the Faith that must hold in the internal forum for salvation.

    2) Dogmas of the Catholic faith are immutable truths revealed by God that constitute the formal objects of divine and Catholics Faith and suitable for all the faithful.

    We have demanded through the ordinaries of hαɾɾιsburg and Philadelphia definitive judgments on these questions from the Holy Father through the CDF.  I am not naive about obtaining a favorable judgment but what we are doing is what every faithful Catholic is called upon to do.  For this I have seen many efforts of the most underhanded kind by the Diocese of hαɾɾιsburg, the Archdiocese of Philadelphia and the SSPX to destroy the Mission's work.  The effort by them has been so disproportionate to our size that we know we touched the right nerve.

    The arguments of the Mission were detailed in a recent exchanges between our priest, Fr. Samuel Waters, and the Archdiocese of Philadelphia and the CDF.  

    http://www.saintspeterandpaulrcm.com/open_letters_WATERS_SULLIVAN_CHAPUT.htm


    I've not ever heard of your church or situation. I'm glad to see that Fr. Waters is fighting his excommunication by Ap. Chaput (if I read that right) and seeking a judgment from the Pope through the CDF. I think that the bishops do not expect Catholics to stand up for themselves. I've been listening to a recording of the life of St. Athanasius, and how he never gave up the fight for truth against the Arians.

    Your mission looks like a really nice church. I wish that we had something like it where I live. I'll try to read all of the letters which are you posted on the website.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline MarylandTrad

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    The Pope Francis Effect: The war on conservative
    « Reply #4 on: August 13, 2014, 05:26:46 PM »
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  • Quote from: Marie Auxiliadora
    This article is interesting because of the comments of Fr. Justin Wylie and the reaction to these comments by the Archdiocese of New York and the Vatican commissars.  
       
    Quote from: FoxNews
    Consequently at a recent Mass, Rev. Justin Wylie, a priest from South Africa who worked at the U.N. for the Holy See and who said regular masses both at Holy Innocents and at the third place of traditional worship -- St. Agnes -- compared the situation for traditionalists in the archdiocese to Reformation England and Cromwellian Ireland. Wylie asked traditionalists "why are you scurrying about like ecclesiastical scavengers, hoping for a scrap or two to fall from the table for your very existence?" and called on them to peacefully assert their rights as baptized Catholics.

    This was apparently too much in the era of Pope Francis.

    Sources told me that a letter was immediately sent to the papal nuncio to the U.N. and, incredibly, to Wylie's archdiocese in Johannesburg, scolding Wylie for his comments and threatening to recommend Wylie's priestly faculties be removed -- an extremely serious move that essentially prevents a priest from acting as one and is usually reserved for very serious accusations like sɛҳuąƖ abuse, not upsetting a cardinal.

    Sources say that after the letter was received, Rev. Wylie, in a move that sounds more like something from Inquisition-era Spain than from modern day New York, was then silenced,  forbidden from celebrating Mass publicly, and told to pack his bags and leave for South Africa as soon as possible.


    The Vatican is very nervous about traditional Catholics who affirm their rights to the immemorial traditions of the Catholic Church.  My family has been involved with Ss. Peter & Paul Roman Catholic Mission in York, PA for the last 14 years.  The purpose of the Mission is to make publically two important claims:

    1) The immemorial ecclesiastical traditions of the Church are not, and could never be, matters of simple discipline, but are necessary attributes of the Catholic Faith by which is can be known and communicated to others.
    Every Catholic by divine duty is obliged to profess the Catholic Faith and worship God in the public forum.  Therefore, for the purpose of fulfilling these duties to God, every Catholic possess the right from God to the immemorial traditions which are the perfect outward manifestation of the Faith that must hold in the internal forum for salvation.

    2) Dogmas of the Catholic faith are immutable truths revealed by God that constitute the formal objects of divine and Catholics Faith and suitable for all the faithful.

    We have demanded through the ordinaries of hαɾɾιsburg and Philadelphia definitive judgments on these questions from the Holy Father through the CDF.  I am not naive about obtaining a favorable judgment but what we are doing is what every faithful Catholic is called upon to do.  For this I have seen many efforts of the most underhanded kind by the Diocese of hαɾɾιsburg, the Archdiocese of Philadelphia and the SSPX to destroy the Mission's work.  The effort by them has been so disproportionate to our size that we know we touched the right nerve.

    The arguments of the Mission were detailed in a recent exchanges between our priest, Fr. Samuel Waters, and the Archdiocese of Philadelphia and the CDF.  

    http://www.saintspeterandpaulrcm.com/open_letters_WATERS_SULLIVAN_CHAPUT.htm


    Wow thanks for sharing. I wasn't aware of your chapel, which looks wonderful. Marylanders have another great option for the traditional Mass and Faith it appears.
    "The Blessed Eucharist means nothing to a man who thinks other people can get along without It. The Blessed Eucharist means nothing to a communicant who thinks he needs It but someone else does not. The Blessed Eucharist means nothing to a communicant who offers others any charity ahead of this Charity of the Bread of Life." -Fr. Leonard Feeney, Bread of Life


    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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    The Pope Francis Effect: The war on conservative
    « Reply #5 on: August 13, 2014, 06:43:30 PM »
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  • Quote from: MarylandTrad
    Quote from: Marie Auxiliadora
    This article is interesting because of the comments of Fr. Justin Wylie and the reaction to these comments by the Archdiocese of New York and the Vatican commissars.  
       
    Quote from: FoxNews
    Consequently at a recent Mass, Rev. Justin Wylie, a priest from South Africa who worked at the U.N. for the Holy See and who said regular masses both at Holy Innocents and at the third place of traditional worship -- St. Agnes -- compared the situation for traditionalists in the archdiocese to Reformation England and Cromwellian Ireland. Wylie asked traditionalists "why are you scurrying about like ecclesiastical scavengers, hoping for a scrap or two to fall from the table for your very existence?" and called on them to peacefully assert their rights as baptized Catholics.

    This was apparently too much in the era of Pope Francis.

    Sources told me that a letter was immediately sent to the papal nuncio to the U.N. and, incredibly, to Wylie's archdiocese in Johannesburg, scolding Wylie for his comments and threatening to recommend Wylie's priestly faculties be removed -- an extremely serious move that essentially prevents a priest from acting as one and is usually reserved for very serious accusations like sɛҳuąƖ abuse, not upsetting a cardinal.

    Sources say that after the letter was received, Rev. Wylie, in a move that sounds more like something from Inquisition-era Spain than from modern day New York, was then silenced,  forbidden from celebrating Mass publicly, and told to pack his bags and leave for South Africa as soon as possible.


    The Vatican is very nervous about traditional Catholics who affirm their rights to the immemorial traditions of the Catholic Church.  My family has been involved with Ss. Peter & Paul Roman Catholic Mission in York, PA for the last 14 years.  The purpose of the Mission is to make publically two important claims:

    1) The immemorial ecclesiastical traditions of the Church are not, and could never be, matters of simple discipline, but are necessary attributes of the Catholic Faith by which is can be known and communicated to others.
    Every Catholic by divine duty is obliged to profess the Catholic Faith and worship God in the public forum.  Therefore, for the purpose of fulfilling these duties to God, every Catholic possess the right from God to the immemorial traditions which are the perfect outward manifestation of the Faith that must hold in the internal forum for salvation.

    2) Dogmas of the Catholic faith are immutable truths revealed by God that constitute the formal objects of divine and Catholics Faith and suitable for all the faithful.

    We have demanded through the ordinaries of hαɾɾιsburg and Philadelphia definitive judgments on these questions from the Holy Father through the CDF.  I am not naive about obtaining a favorable judgment but what we are doing is what every faithful Catholic is called upon to do.  For this I have seen many efforts of the most underhanded kind by the Diocese of hαɾɾιsburg, the Archdiocese of Philadelphia and the SSPX to destroy the Mission's work.  The effort by them has been so disproportionate to our size that we know we touched the right nerve.

    The arguments of the Mission were detailed in a recent exchanges between our priest, Fr. Samuel Waters, and the Archdiocese of Philadelphia and the CDF.  

    http://www.saintspeterandpaulrcm.com/open_letters_WATERS_SULLIVAN_CHAPUT.htm


    Wow thanks for sharing. I wasn't aware of your chapel, which looks wonderful. Marylanders have another great option for the traditional Mass and Faith it appears.


    Thank you and Meg. Did you read Fr. Waters' letter to +DiNoia? I emailed it to H.E. +Williamson and he said it was "excellent though unanswerable".

    http://www.saintspeterandpaulrcm.com/OPEN%20LETTERS/WATERS_SULLIVAN_CHAPUT_EXCHANGE/13_Waters_CDF_DiNoia_2-24-14.pdf
    The love of God be your motivation, the will of God your guiding principle, the glory of God your goal.
    (St. Clement Mary Hofbauer)

    Offline Emitte Lucem Tuam

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    The Pope Francis Effect: The war on conservative
    « Reply #6 on: August 13, 2014, 09:48:08 PM »
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  • I was always taught that there are no such people as a "conservative" (or "liberal") Catholic.  You are either a Catholic -  or you are not.  Period.

    This thread should just be entitled:

    The 'Pope Francis Effect': The war on CATHOLICS in New York.



    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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    The Pope Francis Effect: The war on conservative
    « Reply #7 on: August 14, 2014, 03:11:06 PM »
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  • Quote from: Emitte Lucem Tuam
    I was always taught that there are no such people as a "conservative" (or "liberal") Catholic.  You are either a Catholic -  or you are not.  Period.

    This thread should just be entitled:

    The 'Pope Francis Effect': The war on CATHOLICS in New York.





    Totally agree. Nor I have any sympathy for “conservatives”. They are more responsible that anyone for the current crisis. For the last 50 years they have complained  but always end up always going along to get along and keep “hoping for a scrap or two to fall from the table” of the modernist  bishops. They think their “patience” and “obedience” has brought about their “scraps” (such as  Summorum Pontificuм) and not the sacrifices of Catholics (clergy and laymen).

    The only thing that interests me about this article is the quote from the priest, Fr. Wylie: "why are you scurrying about like ecclesiastical scavengers, hoping for a scrap or two to fall from the table for your very existence?" (article continues) and called on them to peacefully assert their rights as baptized Catholics.

    That is far better than +Fellay, who sang the Te Deum after the release of Summorum Pontificuм will ever get through his head. There is hope for Fr. Wylie and I pray he really joins the fight for the faith.
    The love of God be your motivation, the will of God your guiding principle, the glory of God your goal.
    (St. Clement Mary Hofbauer)


    Offline TKGS

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    The Pope Francis Effect: The war on conservative
    « Reply #8 on: August 14, 2014, 04:50:13 PM »
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  • Quote from: Emitte Lucem Tuam
    I was always taught that there are no such people as a "conservative" (or "liberal") Catholic.  You are either a Catholic -  or you are not.  Period.

    This thread should just be entitled:

    The 'Pope Francis Effect': The war on CATHOLICS in New York.




    In the actual Catholic Church this would be correct.  But in the Conciliar Catholic Church there are all kinds of Catholics.  There are "conservatives", "liberals", "traditionally oriented", "gαy", "New Age", "Neo", and any other adjective one can think of to describe them.  

    It is not a united church and it's hierarchy will bend whichever the winds of the Conciliar popes blow for they have no doctrine or faith which binds them.  They are free to follow any course which is expedient--and the course which is most expedient under Bergoglio is the liberal and gαy courses.

    Under Ratzinger it was time to give everyone a slice of whatever it was they wanted.  Conservatives could have a little doctrine, liberals could have a little freedom of conscience, the traditionally oriented could have the smells and bells of the 1962 Mass in Latin, and the rest could have some of what they wanted as well.  But under Bergoglio its time to put the cold water on anyone who doesn't follow the liberal and gαy lines.

    When Bergoglio retires the Conciliar hierarchy will be happy to go with whatever program their new pope sets.  There should be no surprise that that's what you get when you have hirelings running a church--yet the conservatives really are surprised.  They can see the signs in the sky but they can't see the signs of the times.