Author Topic: The Pope Doesnt believe in the Resurrection of the Body???? (Read 25448 times)

Alexandria · « **Reply #15 on:** October 21, 2010, 12:30:35 PM »

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His refusal to ever, turn known pedophiles over to police athorities, is just one more example of where this man's allegiances are. Hmm, how long has pedophelia been a part of the Catholic church?

This is the least of our problems and would that it were the only one we had.

Heresy is a greater sin than sodomy. As harsh as that sounds to modern ears, it is nonetheless true.

MyrnaM · « **Reply #16 on:** October 21, 2010, 12:57:16 PM »

Quote from: CathMomof7

I am not prepared to claim that there is no Pope or that the current pontiff is not Catholic. I did find this information, however, useful.

A pope who, while not being guilty of formal heresy in the strict sense, has allowed heresy to undermine the Church through compromise, weakness, ambiguous or even gravely imprudent teaching remains Pope, but can be judged by his successors, and condemned as was the case with Honorius I.

I am totally aware that the Church has been under attack from within since the beginning. But did Our Lord not promise us that it could never be destroyed and that we would never lose the Church?

Is this not a time similar to St. Anthanasius's time where the hierarchy was led by heretical influences?

Wouldn't this be the case now? At some point won't some authoritative council have to say "That is heresy." or will we just go back to things before VII?

Is it just a misunderstanding or what! If we are without a true pope for a time, that certainly does not mean God did not keep His promise. The Church is THE TEACHINGS OF CHRIST, and don't we all have that SSPX, SEDE or INDependent?

Alexandria · « **Reply #17 on:** October 21, 2010, 01:22:47 PM »

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A pope who, while not being guilty of formal heresy in the strict sense, has allowed heresy to undermine the Church through compromise, weakness, ambiguous or even gravely imprudent teaching remains Pope, but can be judged by his successors, and condemned as was the case with Honorius I.

The sedevacantists do not believe that the current and past four popes were eligible for office since to be a pope you must be a Catholic and, since these men were already heretics prior to their papal election, they were, therefore, not Catholic. So, they have not "un-poped" anyone as they were never true popes to begin with.

I am not saying that this is what I firmly believe, only telling you that this is how the sedevacantists that I know think. If I am wrong, someone that is more knowledgeable here will correct me.

Matthew · « **Reply #18 on:** October 21, 2010, 01:43:58 PM »

Quote from: Roman Catholic

Quote from: CathMomof7

But did Our Lord not promise us that it could never be destroyed and that we would never lose the Church?

Sure. But if there is no pope for a period, that does not mean the Church is destroyed.

The pope is not the Church.

I've met few Sedevacantists who don't throw out the whole institutional Catholic Church with the Pope they reject.

In other words, they shouldn't be called Sedevacantists but something more inclusive. They aren't rejecting just the pope, but about 1 billion Catholics as well.

Seems like the term isn't expressing the reality.

Matthew

TKGS · « **Reply #19 on:** October 21, 2010, 03:06:38 PM »

Matthew wrote: "...In other words, they shouldn't be called Sedevacantists but something more inclusive. They aren't rejecting just the pope, but about 1 billion Catholics as well..."

I don't understand what you're saying in your post, but as to what I quote above, I was thinking about some things.

I don't think anyone should be declared as absolutely outside the Church unless one of two things are true:

1) The individual himself declares that he is not Catholic; or

2) The individual's personal doctrines are heretical even though he, himself, knows what the doctrines of the Catholic Church are.

It is very possible that many of these 1 billion self-professed Catholics are indeed Catholics because they have been so poorly educated about the faith that they truly believe the heretical doctrines they hold are authentic Catholic doctrines but would, if corrected, submit to the true Faith of the Catholic Church. In many instances, this docilitiy can only be known by God. In many Western countries, however, the vast majority of self-professed Catholics know that they profess heresy (as many polls indicate) and will admit, "I know what the Church teaches, but..." These individuals should never be considered to be Catholics.

In the case of the clergy, however, I cannot accept that but only a very, very few do not know what the Church teaches on most matters of doctrine and I certainly cannot accept that one who headed the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith for years is ignorant of the True Faith, even though he may really think that Truth can change over time as is what most Modernist priest and bishops today believe. (Remember that as Father Ratzinger, Benedict XVI did take the Oath Against Modernism--He positively knows that the Church teaches that Truth [i.e., doctrine] does not change.)

I wonder when, precisely, a faithful Catholic in England realized that the Church he had been baptized in and attended every Sunday and Holy Day was no longer Catholic or when the average citizen of England was no longer Catholic and when the average citizen no longer even considered himself Catholic. We seem today to be in that transition period in the Church, though I hope and I pray that the Crisis will one day end and we will have a Catholic pope again.

MyrnaM · « **Reply #20 on:** October 21, 2010, 03:37:09 PM »

I think Matthew is trying to say, that some Sedevacantist, although they no longer can accept the VII popes as true, they can accept some/many of the laity. With that I say; I hope so because all the while I was within the camp of VII, I considered myself Catholic. Misled, but still Catholic! Yet, when the facts were presented to me, I felt the grace, and saw the light and did something about it.

Leisa · « **Reply #21 on:** October 21, 2010, 04:15:14 PM »

Quote from: TKGS

....edited.....It is very possible that many of these 1 billion self-professed Catholics are indeed Catholics because they have been so poorly educated about the faith that they truly believe the heretical doctrines they hold are authentic Catholic doctrines but would, if corrected, submit to the true Faith of the Catholic Church. ...edited...

Ahh, invinsible ignornance, another modern heresy.

2 Corinthians 4:3 "And if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost, in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them."

Alexandria · « **Reply #22 on:** October 21, 2010, 04:30:27 PM »

Leisa, thank you for that St. Paul quote.

I have checked the notes for that in my Haydock commentary, and it says:

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"...And he says, if there be any who have not yet received it, that it is their own fault. For had they been as eager to receive it, as we have been to announce it to them, the whole world had long since been converted."

Then he goes on to say that Our Lord permitted their blindness.

Leisa · « **Reply #23 on:** October 21, 2010, 04:50:41 PM »

You're welcome Alexandria,

And I like 2 Corinthians 4:2
But we renounce the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness nor adulterating the word of God: but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience, in the sight of God.

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #24 on:** October 21, 2010, 06:57:59 PM »

Quote from: Leisa

Quote from: MyrnaM
I'll probably get banned for asking this question, but here goes.

How can some still believe he is a true pope?

Exactly my question. I think all Catholics need to climb out of the co-dependent relationship and see it for what it is. Benedict is an abuser of Catholics (not to mention children).

His refusal to ever, turn known pedophiles over to police athorities, is just one more example of where this man's allegiances are. Hmm, how long has pedophelia been a part of the Catholic church?

It's interesting. He is a brazen heretic and Catholics don't seem to notice or care. Then his involvement in the pedophile coverups comes out in the mainstream media. Catholics are still going to Mass.

This shows me that Catholics who follow Benedict XVI will follow him no matter what. It seems that there is no heresy too great, no child that is so important, that they will back away from him.

Matthew 19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

I believe it is a testimony to the power of the devil. When people stopped believing in evil, that is when evil really gets a foothold. It's so easy for the devil now. Thanks to Benedict and all the other anti-popes who have paved the highway to hell. Hey, the devil doesn't really exist, so we don't need the exorcism rites anymore.

That should have been a major clue for people right there. Don't we need the rite of exorcism? Why are they trashing it?

So many clues. It's a wonder people are not getting it.

I really would not mention pedophiles being in the Church. Sure it's a problem, but as Alexandria said we are dealing with more important matters right now, modernism being the main one. Plus, the Protestants constantly use pedophiles being in the Church as an excuse for not wanting to become Catholic. I really think this is an issue that should be dealt with later. We first to try to take down modernism.

Roman Catholic · « **Reply #25 on:** October 21, 2010, 08:26:24 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

I've met few Sedevacantists who don't throw out the whole institutional Catholic Church with the Pope they reject.

Matthew

What exactly do you mean by "institutional" Catholic Church?

And what do you by "throw out"?

Leisa · « **Reply #26 on:** October 21, 2010, 11:12:37 PM »

Quote from: SpiritusSanctus

I really would not mention pedophiles being in the Church. ........

Are you afraid people might actually leave the Vatican II church?

Matthew · « **Reply #27 on:** October 21, 2010, 11:55:12 PM »

I mean the Church that the average man would point to as the "Catholic Church".

Matthew · « **Reply #28 on:** October 22, 2010, 12:01:43 AM »

For many Sedevacantists, it's not just a question of "is the See vacant, or not?" which the name Sedevacantism implies.

No, it's more than that.

When a Sedevacantist rejects the current Pope (Benedict XVI) as being valid, about 98% of them also reject the "Novus Ordo" mainstream Catholic Church structure, including its sacraments, priests, and laity -- effectively excommunicating the whole Church, reducing the Church of Christ to a few thousand (for some, it's a few hundred, a few dozen, or just a few!) individuals scattered around the world.

How many Sedevacantists consider novus ordo Catholics to be nothing more than protestants? Come on, they at least bear the Catholic name! Give them at least a little bit of credit. Lutherans are named after Luther. Calvinists are named after Calvin. No protestant Church can trace itself back to Christ. The Catholic Church is the original Christian Church, with 2,000 years of history and founded by Christ. Any novus ordo Catholic sees "Catholic Church" on the building they attend Mass at every single Sunday. I could imagine that fact putting someone at ease.

Unless they lived through Vatican II, how would they know they shouldn't trust their priest? Do they have some magical Catholic sense of what is right and wrong? A correct Sensus Fidei (sense of the faith) is only possessed by those who grew up in Catholic sanity (doctrine, liturgy, practice, culture, etc.) What kind of Sensus Fidei must be possessed by the average 20 year old Novus Ordo Catholic? Probably a very distorted one.

Matthew

Dawn · « **Reply #29 on:** October 22, 2010, 05:42:57 AM »

Does that include the "Old Catholics" then or the American Catholic Church? They do call themselves Catholic and believe parts of the Truth as the Novus Ordo Catholics believe part of the Truth.