Quote from: Belloc

Quote from: St Jude Thaddeus

Is he just another victim too, of modernist seminaries, liturgical experiments, indifferentist ecuмenism, and obfuscating superiors? To what extent can a man in his position be judged to be a mere "victim"? I wish I knew. Or maybe I already do.

he was born in Germany in the 20's, sa-yes, likely he was from youth indoctrinated by modernists ideas, as Germany seems to always lead the way in heretical ideas.....hence, his now middle of the road appraoch to things...strengthened by the 60's,etc

Undoubtedly so, Belloc, and again, if he were just an average Sunday pew-warmer I wouldn't be surprised that he holds the beliefs that he does. I myself at one time believed things so absurd that now it would give me great shame to even mention them.

But...I'm not the Pope. I have to wonder to what extent is his ignorance willful and malicious or just casual and innocent. That God is using him to achieve some end I have no doubt. I don't mean to throw stones at the man, or his predecessor, but some of the things they've said and done really call into question their integrity, and that of the hundreds of cardinals who voted for them. Are all of these people really that ignorant of the Faith? Do they all have such feeble prayer lives that none has had his mind opened by the Holy Spirit? I prayed a little bit for guidance, after years of sin and stupidity, and the Holy Ghost and the BVM came quickly to my aid, and steered me to the True Church. Why don't They do the same for men who purport to lead millions of others in the Faith?

The majority of the cardinals in the Vatican, as well as the current pope and his VII predecessors, know the faith.  Benedict in particular is well aware of the traditional Catholic faith.  They have chosen to improve upon it with their brilliancy and avant garde theology rather than hand down what they were given.

I have no qualms about saying this because it is a fact that all of the VII popes were trained in the "old school" theology.  They all knew/know better.  I often think, too, what pride to exchange the tried and true for your wacky ideas thought up by some theologians who were too smart for their own good.

And now, this dilettante (thank you, Caminus http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=12894&f=9&min=20&num=20, for putting us all in our places!), will step down from her box.   :soapbox:

That is the plain and simple truth Alexandria. God allows this for His own purpose. The vision of Pope Leo saw Satan asking for power and God answered yes, but for so long only. So, Satan's minions are controlling Rome. But, look closely. We will see that they are not controlling the REAL CHURCH. No, in fact that could not happen. So, they created a New Religion at Vatican II. Where they REAL faith is Christ centered, the new religion the ape of the true Church being run by satan's hand-picked spawn in man centered. The True Faith is there for anyone to see, being carefully guarded by the very few True Priests and Bishops in the world.

Yes, Thank you to TKGS for looking that up for us.  I wish I had my copy since it would help me out with a few more things I have been looking into. If anyone is interested in reading this informative book, No Crisis in the Church? compiled by Simon Galloway you can find one at http://www.miqcenter.com/books/0-problems.shtml

To see a review on it go to:
http://www.traditioninaction.org/bkreviews/A_023br_CrisisInChurch_Somerville.htm

I got this book a couple years ago and couldn't put it down, even though it was disheartening for me to read how differently the past few Popes have taught on Catholic doctrines than the Popes before Vatican 2.  I loaned my book out and haven't seen it since, so I recently began searching for a used copy and wonder if it is out of print because the few copies that I found online are priced at $72.95 and up. (It makes me wonder if people who DON"T want us to read this have bought up copies but maybe that's being paranoid!)  In my search for this book, I then thought of the CMRI bookstore online and they have it listed new for $21.95 (see the above link). Has anyone else read this book?  

Quote from: Alexandria

Quote from: Dawn

sedes are gnostics? Ya okay how do they come up with that?

Yes, that is what the priest called them.  I printed out a copy of the email correspondence that the person had put on the now defunct forum.  That is what he called sedevacantists:  gnostics.

The priest said that they think they have a "secret knowledge".   :scared2:

He mistakes a private judgment based on public knowledge with a "secret  knowledge." He is confused.

Don't tell him that.  You'll knock down his sede sandcastle and he might have to look at the facts.  :wink:

Quote from: SpiritusSanctus

1.- The SSPX has been in talks for some time now. Don't you think that if they were negotiating, they would have already bought in to some agreement thrown out by Rome? When negotiating with Rome, their stance is pretty simple. "You have either this option or the other, take your pick." That's usually how it is.

It is not logical to assume they would have come to an agreement already.  We can say that the excommunications have been lifted and there is some shift in society rhetoric.

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2.- Those catechism classes mean nothing in this particular discussion. Who really expected the SSPX to be just as good if not better without LeFebvre?

No, they have to do with the attitude that the society wants sspx goers to have towards the conciliar bishops: ie to defend them against the accusations in the abuse scandal.  

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3.- Still not buying it. I think some of the extreme sedes went overboard when they first heard that the SSPX was in talks with Rome.

Not buying what? You said:

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It's nothing more than a false rumor put out by a bunch of extreme sedes or extremists.

I showed you that it isn't just extreme sedes talking about it.  

You know it's rather amusing, many sspx priests and bishops are accused by NO types of being crypto-sedes.  Maybe the moment they are no longer in favor this will be a way to banish them, by suddenly discovering they must be sedes because they are saying the same things the society has always said, and you couldn't say those things without really being a sede.

bump

Quote from: SpiritusSanctus

Quote from: MyrnaM

I'll probably get banned for asking this question, but here goes.

How can some still believe he is a true pope?

I don't think you'll get banned for that question. So why do I think he's true Pope? Well, as I said a few days ago, there are Popes and there are anti-popes, no in-between. This could have been stuff that he wrote or said before he even became Pope. I still don't think he meets enough criteria to be named anti-pope. Is he a Traditional Pope? No. Is he what I would call a good Pope? No. However, I don't think he's an anti-pope.

But if he held Heretical Views prior - then his election is invalid. A heretic cannot be elected Pope as he is not a member of the Church

That was an old post of mine. My beliefs are different these days. :)