I can only speak for myself, and I feel for Catholics that are uncertain.

The Catholic church was never meant to be complicated.  

One doctrine flows into another, and when you know your catechism you can see that.  This is why I love to study catechism, it isn't suppose to be ambiguous where words can change with the wind.  The Chuch is absolute!  This is absolutely wrong, this is absolutely right.  

I grew up in the midst of the Vatican II revolution.  I went to CCD classes every week from first grade through high school.  Upon graduation, I can honestly say that I was mostly ignorant of the Catholic religion.  I knew more about various Protestant religions from my friends than I knew about the Catholic religion.  In fact, I truly believed that the Catholic religion was just another way to worship God, just as the Baptists have their way, the Lutherans have their way, the Jєωs have their way.  If Islam had been in the news, I'm sure I would have thought the same way about Muslims.  We did a lot of art in those days, drawing pictures of "God's Love"--even in high school.

Only after essentially abandoning the practice of the faith while in the army and having some Protestant friends try to save my soul, did I decide to try to find out a little about the faith.  The Post Exchange book store happened to have a copy of "The Catechism of the Council of Trent" on the shelf (I still can't figure out why they would have had it!) and I picked it up.  The new and improved Catechism had not even been written yet.  

To my surprise, I discovered that the Catholic religion made sense.  In fact, it made more sense than the Protestant religions.  This only spurred me on to learn more.  I've been trying to learn more every year since.  The one real difference between Catholic doctrine and all other doctrines is that Catholic doctrine is simple and fits together like puzzle pieces.  All the other doctrines have to find nuances here and there and they have to cut some of the puzzle pieces to make them fit.

Quote from: MyrnaM

I can only speak for myself, and I feel for Catholics that are uncertain.

The Catholic church was never meant to be complicated.  

One doctrine flows into another, and when you know your catechism you can see that.  This is why I love to study catechism, it isn't suppose to be ambiguous where words can change with the wind.  The Chuch is absolute!  This is absolutely wrong, this is absolutely right.  

I grew up in the midst of the Vatican II revolution.  I went to CCD classes every week from first grade through high school.  Upon graduation, I can honestly say that I was mostly ignorant of the Catholic religion.  I knew more about various Protestant religions from my friends than I knew about the Catholic religion.  In fact, I truly believed that the Catholic religion was just another way to worship God, just as the Baptists have their way, the Lutherans have their way, the Jєωs have their way.  If Islam had been in the news, I'm sure I would have thought the same way about Muslims.  We did a lot of art in those days, drawing pictures of "God's Love"--even in high school.

Only after essentially abandoning the practice of the faith while in the army and having some Protestant friends try to save my soul, did I decide to try to find out a little about the faith.  The Post Exchange book store happened to have a copy of "The Catechism of the Council of Trent" on the shelf (I still can't figure out why they would have had it!) and I picked it up.  The new and improved Catechism had not even been written yet.  

To my surprise, I discovered that the Catholic religion made sense.  In fact, it made more sense than the Protestant religions.  This only spurred me on to learn more.  I've been trying to learn more every year since.  The one real difference between Catholic doctrine and all other doctrines is that Catholic doctrine is simple and fits together like puzzle pieces.  All the other doctrines have to find nuances here and there and they have to cut some of the puzzle pieces to make them fit.

Yes, Myrna. I cannot believe the One, Holy, Universal Church is supposed to be so nuanced and subtle that only a handful of enlightened modern theologians can possibly understand it.

That's Gnosticism, pure and simple.

TKGS--everything you said, that's exactly what happened to me. When I started reading Traditional material everything began to make sense. The Faith I had been raised with and had never understood suddenly made sense, so much sense in fact that I realized that no other explanation could possibly be true.

If Benedict were just another Joe Catholic in the Novus Ordo pews, I wouldn't be so upset by these posts, especially TKGS's in which he compares, blow by blow, the Eternal Teachings of Our Holy Church with the blithering modernist balderash of Benedict XVI. I would simply figure it was the musings of another confused, poorly catechised post-V2 victim.

But when it's the man whom 99% of all Catholics recognize as the "Holy Father"? Then what? Is he just another victim too, of modernist seminaries, liturgical experiments, indifferentist ecuмenism, and obfuscating superiors? To what extent can a man in his position be judged to be a mere "victim"?

I wish I knew. Or maybe I already do.

Is he just another victim too, of modernist seminaries, liturgical experiments, indifferentist ecuмenism, and obfuscating superiors? To what extent can a man in his position be judged to be a mere "victim"? I wish I knew. Or maybe I already do.

he was born in Germany in the 20's, sa-yes, likely he was from youth indoctrinated by modernists ideas, as Germany seems to always lead the way in heretical ideas.....hence, his now middle of the road appraoch to things...strengthened by the 60's,etc

sedes are gnostics? Ya okay how do they come up with that?

Yes, that is what the priest called them.  I printed out a copy of the email correspondence that the person had put on the now defunct forum.  That is what he called sedevacantists:  gnostics.

The priest said that they think they have a "secret knowledge".   :scared2:

while I am sure all sides might have members prone toward gnosticsm, todays NewChurch is heavily influenced by those ideas, mainly the branch that says "why bother, do what thou wilt", as opposed to the more gloomy "everything is evil" gnostic branch, mostly seen today in prot funamentalism and calvinism...

B16 not likely long for worl, true, if based on his age alone....at some point in future, we likely will have a Pope to flee and be murdered,etc and a vacant seat...though note sure timing and who/what happens for sure in between, but if prophecies about the future holy Pope to die are accurate, then:
-we will indeed have a Pope at that time
-he will die

so, either we have a real pope now and succesor(s) or, no Pope now, but at some point, we have a Pope, though, he would be elected by mostly New Church bishops....how that would happen, who knows and no SV has ever told me how, if all the bishops are heretical, where then do we get a real Pope and who elects him---that is always, oddly, unanswereable, only that "God will provide" answer.......

Maybe the 4 SSPX will elect him......then again, many SV do not either recognize their true title to bishop or, feel they too are heretical and hence, lost or never gained the office of Bishop....yet again, too many ?? for me to except the SV position....

though, myrna is right, per prophecy of future times, we will have a vacant seat:

The pope will change his residence and the Church will not be defended for twenty-five months or more because, during all that time there will be no Pope in Rome... After many tribulations, a Pope shall be elected out of those who survived the persecutions. -John of Vitiguerro (13th Century)


and:

John of the Cleft Rock (14th Century)
Towards the end of the world, tyrants and hostile mobs will rob the Church and the clergy of all their possessions and will afflict and martyr them. Those who heap the most abuse upon them will be held in high esteem.
At that time, the Pope with his cardinals will have to flee Rome in tragic circuмstances to a place where they will be unknown. The Pope will die a cruel death in his exile. The sufferings of the Church will be much greater than at any previous time in her history. But God will raise a holy Pope, and the Angels will rejoice. Enlightened by God, this man will rebuild almost the whole world through his holiness. He will lead everyone to the true Faith. (Yves Dupont, Catholic Prophecy, Tan Books and Publishers, 1973)

Quote from: St Jude Thaddeus

Is he just another victim too, of modernist seminaries, liturgical experiments, indifferentist ecuмenism, and obfuscating superiors? To what extent can a man in his position be judged to be a mere "victim"? I wish I knew. Or maybe I already do.

he was born in Germany in the 20's, sa-yes, likely he was from youth indoctrinated by modernists ideas, as Germany seems to always lead the way in heretical ideas.....hence, his now middle of the road appraoch to things...strengthened by the 60's,etc

Undoubtedly so, Belloc, and again, if he were just an average Sunday pew-warmer I wouldn't be surprised that he holds the beliefs that he does. I myself at one time believed things so absurd that now it would give me great shame to even mention them.

But...I'm not the Pope. I have to wonder to what extent is his ignorance willful and malicious or just casual and innocent. That God is using him to achieve some end I have no doubt. I don't mean to throw stones at the man, or his predecessor, but some of the things they've said and done really call into question their integrity, and that of the hundreds of cardinals who voted for them. Are all of these people really that ignorant of the Faith? Do they all have such feeble prayer lives that none has had his mind opened by the Holy Spirit? I prayed a little bit for guidance, after years of sin and stupidity, and the Holy Ghost and the BVM came quickly to my aid, and steered me to the True Church. Why don't They do the same for men who purport to lead millions of others in the Faith?

Quote from: Belloc

Quote from: St Jude Thaddeus

Is he just another victim too, of modernist seminaries, liturgical experiments, indifferentist ecuмenism, and obfuscating superiors? To what extent can a man in his position be judged to be a mere "victim"? I wish I knew. Or maybe I already do.

he was born in Germany in the 20's, sa-yes, likely he was from youth indoctrinated by modernists ideas, as Germany seems to always lead the way in heretical ideas.....hence, his now middle of the road appraoch to things...strengthened by the 60's,etc

Undoubtedly so, Belloc, and again, if he were just an average Sunday pew-warmer I wouldn't be surprised that he holds the beliefs that he does. I myself at one time believed things so absurd that now it would give me great shame to even mention them.

But...I'm not the Pope. I have to wonder to what extent is his ignorance willful and malicious or just casual and innocent. That God is using him to achieve some end I have no doubt. I don't mean to throw stones at the man, or his predecessor, but some of the things they've said and done really call into question their integrity, and that of the hundreds of cardinals who voted for them. Are all of these people really that ignorant of the Faith? Do they all have such feeble prayer lives that none has had his mind opened by the Holy Spirit? I prayed a little bit for guidance, after years of sin and stupidity, and the Holy Ghost and the BVM came quickly to my aid, and steered me to the True Church. Why don't They do the same for men who purport to lead millions of others in the Faith?

These guys were hand picked, they are sheeps in wolves clothing, who said, "You will know them by their fruits"...?

The fruits are results of THEM....