Yet that's the quicksand. Too many insist that they individually know exactly what is certain, and that anyone else whose sincere certainty differs must be totally at fault. Too many laypersons as self-anointed keyboard warriors. Let them cluster in virtual reality and they become self-anointed keyboard factions each playing to some imagined cheering gallery of supporters, a small few even straining at cheers surely wafting down from the heavens. Battling toward what end, the good of souls? Not by way of the means they've utilized, except perhaps as cautionary deterrents by their example.

Every Sunday from Ridgefield/St. Mary's to the smallest independent chapel, there will be people whose private thoughts and beliefs do not align perfectly with the local mission statement. Some might have one or two well-reasoned disagreements (EENS, say) while others, unsophisticated good souls, might be unable to recite quickly and precisely enough whichever is the correct party line. If the self-anointed lay enforcers were to try a parking lot checkpoint and interrogate everyone, it'd get very ugly very quickly.

After so many years outside the Church, keeping my head down in self-preservation amid the worldlings playing these sorts of games, I arrive here and recognize the same-old same-old. Some days I'll pick through the morning-after mosh pit wreckage for a worthwhile link to a sermon or authoritative PDF. Other days it's better to avert my eyes.

And with all that, to any who are still calmly reading, here's to a prayerful and recollected last day of the year. May Our Lord keep you and yours safe and sound and on the narrow path in 2024. Glory to God in the highest; and on earth peace to men of good will.

And that is why the Communion of the Faithful is hard right now.  I try really hard to give a cheery welcome to anyone who shows up at our church because we don't know their story and all of our stories are very complicated.  God bless you and I hope you have a happy and Holy New Year.

Well, the dogma decrees that it is absolutely necessary for salvation to be subject to the pope - so, I am the popes' good subject, but God's first. This agrees with the highest principle in the Church - see my signature.....The first pope, St. Peter, in unison with all the bishops of the world proclaimed: "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." [Acts of Apostles 5:29]

The dogma, like the Scripture offers no exceptions and leaves no room for any out, we have to accept this 'as is' if we want to get to heaven. The pope is a man, too many make him into a man-God which only adds to the problem.

Yes, this crisis is straight from hell and the Satan really did a diabolical number on everything holy and everything within the Church, but he cannot change truth.

The quote in blue above is simply applying dogma and Scripture rather than blind obedience. I mean, you're subject to your parents, but if they told you to jump out of the 6th story window you would have to disobey your parents. The pope is a heretic and wants us to follow him in his heresies, we have to disobey the pope. Same difference.

It really is just that simple.

Catholics have always known and believed that there are two ways a pope vacates his office, 1) he resigns or 2) he dies. Does any sede here remember that belief? This is what has been believed by all Catholics in all places always and everywhere, that makes it Catholic. The idea that a pope could lose his office for heresy etc., is just that, an idea, an opinion, a theological speculation - that means it is not real. But best of luck trying to get that fact through to sedes - and God bless them.

Look I understand the perspective you are coming from.  Please explain how you would explain this to children and people who decide they want to become Catholic.  It is not practical to say you are joining a Papist religion, but please ignore the current Pope.  To get to all this nitty gritty you would have to be well read on the topic and somewhat of a theologian.  Most people would not take the time or effort.  

Look I understand the perspective you are coming from.  Please explain how you would explain this to children and people who decide they want to become Catholic.  It is not practical to say you are joining a Papist religion, but please ignore the current Pope.  To get to all this nitty gritty you would have to be well read on the topic and somewhat of a theologian.  Most people would not take the time or effort. 

I will tell you the jist of the way we were taught by our parents when I was a child from the time I was 2, or 3, or however far back I can remember, and later nuns - this was repeated as needed throughout childhood. 

"No matter who tells you to do wrong, remember God sees it all, God see everything, He is always watching. Don't worry what your friends will say, you worry about what God will say and do to you." They would at times go into a bit more detail such as, "even if I (mom) or dad or (brother/friend/whomever) want you to do something you know is wrong, don't do it! Remember God sees it all and you will pay for it." 

Anyway, this is the jist of how we were taught from far as I can tell, infancy. Very simple. It was all part of learning to pray, heaven and hell, Our Blessed Mother, guardian angels and etc - you know, was part of learning our holy religion from infancy.

As for converts, they're not from outer space ya know, they easily understand what corruption is and it is easy to explain that the recent popes are men who've corrupted themselves, that they need many prayers and that we cannot listen to them because they teach heresy. I find it somewhat amazing how easily they can initially grasp everything as regards the whole crisis situation. 

I mean yes, this is a crisis, but remember, there are many, even in these days who are finding the true faith, regardless of  heretical popes and regardless of heretical hierarchy for the last 60 years. Everyone on earth will indeed find the truth *if they seek it*, we have Our Lord's promise on that....then they need to keep seeking as we all must, and persevere in it no matter what. IMO, this last part is the real concern, not explaining heretical popes - I think you will find that's the easy part.

My point with this thread was not necessarily R&R vs Sedevacantism, but the fact that under normal circuмstances of the Church we would all be in Schism.  Our only real choices are to go back to the burning city of Rome or wait, watch, and pray.  I am waiting, watching, and praying as a Tradional Catholic.  What are you doing?