Quote from: Lover of Truth

Quote from: Pete Vere

Quote from: Hermenegild

The sedevacantists ranks are obviously growing - all thanks to Francis!

I would say it is more due to the inherent instability of the R&R position, rooted in the temporariness of its initial intent.

It is interesting that Bishop Lefebvre wanted to come out SV but many of the SSPX Priests advised against it for fear of scandalizing the faithful if I read correctly on the Bellarmine forums.  If this is the case that would explain why they appear so ignorant when in fact they are not.  They know these guys have not been Popes but don't want to scandalize the faithful because it would be too much for them to handle (not out of fear of losing membership though we must charitably suppose though).  

That's a calumny without any basis or proof.

Archbishop Lefebvre wasn't that much of a coward or slave to human respect. The rest of his life proves this.

Keep those sedevacantist calumnies and lies on the Bellarmine forums where they belong.

He could very well have had the good of the souls in mind.  They were receiving valid sacraments and benefiting from them.  If the assertion was true it shows the humility of the Bishop not trusting his judgement above all others.  In my previous post he lays out the SV reality and notes he does not see a way around it but did not want to officially proclaim it.  It shows he was not ignorant, and I certainly don't believe that money was a factor in his decision making here.  Hopefully I did not leave that impression.  At least we can voice our opinion here.  In football if you say two men kissing with cake in their mouth  looked horrible you will get suspended.  

Archbishop Lefebvre, Conference April 15th, 1986

Then I would like, since there are different echoes, different reactions, I would like to clarify a little, to a possible extent, that the situation of the Church is a so mysterious situation, that is not as easy to clarify things ...

Then the problem arises.

First problem: the communicatio in sacris.

Second problem: the question of heresy.

Third problem: the Pope is Pope even if he is heretic?

I do not know, I do not settle! But you may raise the question yourselves. I think every sensible man should ask himself the question. I do not know. So, now, is it urgent to talk about this? ...

You can obviously avoid to talk about it... we can talk between us, privately, in our offices, in our private conversations among seminarians, among priests...

Is it necessary to speak to the faithful? Many say:
— No, do not speak to the faithful; they will be shocked; that's going to be terrible, it will go farther...

Well, I said it to the priests, in Paris, when we had a meeting; then to you, I had already spoken to you, I said: I think that, very gently, it is necessary, nevertheless, shed some light on the faithful...

I am not saying it's necessary to do so brutally and launch it as a condiment to the faithful to scare them. No.

But I think that, after all, it is precisely a matter of faith. It is necessary that the faithful do not lose faith. We are to take care of the faithful to keep the faith of the faithful, to protect the faith.

Quote from: Matthew

I agree, though I'll admit normally I'm supremely annoyed (and for good reason) by those who try to come into the fray and say "I'm above this all. I'm just going to call myself Catholic".

I'm not saying that "Traditional" isn't a valid distinction that describes a tragic reality.  I just loathe being forced to distinguish this way, just as I loathe the fact that non-Catholics have usurped the name "Christian".  I can't even call myself a Christian, after Our Lord, as the early Christians loved to do, because it implies to the world that I'm a Prot; they stole the name of Our Lord from us.  Similarly the Novus Ordo have stolen the name Catholic.

Very true, and I don't disagree.

But I don't want to be thought of us a protestant -- or a Novus Ordo wishy-washy pseudo Catholic so I have to use the common terminology of the day to convey the reality.

As a teenager stranded in the NO with some knowledge of true Catholicism from old books and no connection to, nor knowledge of, any "traditional" Catholics, I felt as though I was probably one of a hundred people in the whole country who thought things were very horribly wrong in the Church--I felt completely isolated.  Maybe it's the spirit of that pissed off teenager who became quite fond of quipping "I'm more Catholic than the Catholic Church," but "Catholic" is and always will be good enough for me.  I'll wait for the novus ordo to better describe themselves (i.e., protestantized Catholic; Catholic-lite; marginally Catholic; modernized Catholic, etc.).  Anytime the need arises to differentiate, I am quite capable of aptly doing so.