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Quote from: Pelele

Do you realize you are a stinking liar?

Maybe Nishant did not know about the quotes you had posted or maybe he forgot about them. You should think that before you call him a "stinking liar."

So at this stage in the game, Nishant, someone who likes to think he knows enough about theology to go around condemning sedevacantism, might actually be ignorant of something as basic as cuм Ex Apostolatus Officio.

Not to mention the fact that he's been a traditionalist for years.

Hmm.

I don't think so.

And even if that were the case, he would still be guilty of crass and/or effective ignorance and of not studying nor researching his opponent's arguments before presuming to "refute" anything.

And in all seriousness if the case is that he really has never read cuм Ex, this just shows you the deplorable ignorance and blindness sspx people like him find themselves in.

But i admit i went over the top and i apologize for the bad things i said.

I have already mentioned to you before the case of Anacletus II who reigned in Rome and had the majority of approval of the Roman Curia. If it was not with the exception of St. Bernard and a few others who were mostly outside of Rome, who recognized Innocent II as the true Pope. However, for whatever reason a good overwhelming majority of the clergy in Rome accepted him as the true Pope as opposed to Innocent II.

So no its not a "dogmatic fact" that recognition from the clergy constitutes ipso facto a true Pope. I used to believe that this was true, but historically this completely fails... I agree the case of Pius XII is solid, because not only does he have unanimous consent, but he happens to be a Catholic! Hey, how about that! He has to be a Catholic in order to be considered a Pontiff don't forget that. Its one of the pre-requisites it goes without almost saying. Its pretty simple you have to be a male, meet the proper canonical age, be made a Bishop during a set period of time (it varied throughout the centuries), and lastly be a Catholic. You have to be Catholic in order to be the head of the Church, no one ever has disputed this point EVER. Not once has this ever been brought up, according to the UNANIMOUS magisterial authority and when I mean unanimous I mean TOTAL unanimity of both Father's and theologians. Not one of them including Cajetan argued that a non-Catholic could be Pope. Benedict at the very least pretended to be Catholic, so I can give the benefit of the doubt as to why he lulled many into his traditionalist cover, but this man is not even remotely a Christian for that matter.

Sorry for not answering some of the other postings, I will get to them. I have been extremely busy and as a result I have not been able to address some of the issues that you have raised. Please know that I will get to them whenever it is humanly possible, thanks. I am not dodging any of the questions, it is just that I need to address them more in depth. I am even thinking of doing a video series I guess it just depends when I have time.

Can you answer me one question, if a Jew who is a believing Jew gets elected would he be able to be Pope? Yes or no? Justify your answer whichever one you pick, or answer in a more specific way if you think the yes or no format does not formulate your position properly. Just letting you know that there is such a thing as a Marrano, and some of them have continued their practice for centuries... JP II is definitely one such case where it can be certain that he was of Jєωιѕн ancestry without a shadow of a doubt, he clearly manifested the Old covenant was still valid. This is perfectly in sync with the theology of the Conciliarist magisterium. You can apply this question to not just being a Jew, but to a non-Christian or a Protestant. Ultimately the real debate comes down to whether they are still Catholic or not... If they are then we owe them are full allegiance no questions asked, so long as they don't command you to go to war with some country, or go prostitute yourself then you can be safe in the bark of St. Peter. He cannot be the head of two Church's it violates the unity of the Church. For we have only ONE HEAD, and the Pope is the principal source of Unity among Catholics, this is a dogmatic fact. You can take that to the bank and cash it out.

It is foolish to think that heretics will expose themselves so overtly initially, this is why it took 50 years of destruction before they do it in your face overt heresy. You have the most powerful position in the world, and you will not carry out an agenda which has been a cosmic struggle between God and the Devil. Even Novus Ordo conservatives are so troubled that they are seriously questioning without ever having read any SV'ist arguments that the man is Catholic or even Christian for that matter. It is simply common sense, and you have to be a "theologian" in order to see otherwise. Saint Thomas Aquinas was the Doctor of Common sense for a reason, and on almost EVERY case he cited with the masses on what is clearly self-evident. Why is it so hard to believe that there can be such a thing as an interregnum + anti popes... I never discounted the possibility even as a sedeplenist, it just seems like you are just anti-sedevacantist a-priori. Seriously could you theoretically tell me what is it that they would need to do for you to be "convinced" they are anti-Popes. I just can't see what is it that they need to say and do, that spells it out better then H E R E T I C A L- A N T I - P O P E S in both deed/acts/official docuмents.  

What is worse is that all of this has been predicted both in private revelation and public revelation...

Here is a beautiful post in BF:

Enough of private revelation. We're living Apocalypse 12. Look at Fr. Herman Kramer's commentary on it in his The Book of Destiny (1955) pp. 275 ff. Fr. Kramer spent 30 years working on this exegesis, completing it in 1955, a mere 6 years before Vatican II. I only present his probable conclusions, but if you want to see his logical reasons, backed up by Church Fathers, read his entire commentary on Chapter 12.

v. 1: "And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars:"
Fr. Kramer, pp. 276-7 wrote:
The woman of chapter twelve is not the Blessed Virgin Mary.
…
According to the ancient Fathers, the human nature or character of the Church is here delineated, while in chapters four and five her divine nature and prerogatives were depicted.
…
The twelve stars represent the twelve apostles; or they may be God’s mystical number symbolizing the Christian nations, that as a contrast to the ten crowned horns of the beast, shall be the glory of the Church when the days of Antichrist approach.
…
The moon under her feet has ever been understood to symbolize the unchanging and unchangeable character of the Church.


v. 2: "And being with child, she cried travailing in birth, and was in pain to be delivered."
Fr. Kramer, p. 278 wrote:
In that travail, she gives birth to some definite “per­son” who is to RULE the Church with a rod of iron (verse 5). It then points to a conflict waged within the Church to elect one who was to “rule all nations” in the manner clearly stated. In accord with the text this is unmistakably a PAPAL ELECTION, for only Christ and His Vicar have the divine right to rule ALL NATIONS. Furthermore, the Church does not travail in anguish at EVERY papal election which can be held without trouble or danger. But at this time the great powers may take a menacing attitude to hinder the election of the logical and expected candidate by threats of a general apostasy, assassination or imprisonment of this candidate if elected. This would suppose an extremely hostile mind in the governments of Europe towards the Church and would cause intense anguish to the Church, because an extended interregnum in the papacy is always disastrous and more so in a time of universal persecution. If Satan would contrive to hinder a papal election, the Church would suffer great travail.


v. 3: "And there was seen another sign in heaven: and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads, and ten horns: and on his head seven diadems:"
Fr. Kramer, pg. 279 wrote:
This red dragon it is that brings the Church into great distress at that time.
…
No fiercer enemy of God and man has appeared in Christian times than Communism, and strange to say, RED is its emblematic color. Communism may by that time have gained control of the governments of Europe, It would then erect almost insurmountable difficulties for the holding of a conclave to elect a pope.
…
Satan knows how exten­sively an interregnum in the papacy would favor his success in recovering his ancient lordship over the world. (See 2 Thess II. 7 ["For the mystery of iniquity already worketh; only that he who now holdeth, do hold, until he be taken out of the way."]).
Card. Manning's 1862 argument for why the Antichrist will be within the Catholic Church is simple:
Card. Manning wrote:
We have here [2 Thessalonians 2:3-11] a prophecy … of a [spiritual*] revolt, which shall precede the second coming of our Lord … The authority, then, from which the revolt is to take place is that of the kingdom of God on earth, prophesied by Daniel [cf. Daniel 2] as the kingdom which the God of heaven should set up … in other words, the one and universal Church, founded by our Divine Lord, and spread by His Apostles throughout the world. In this one only kingdom was deposited the true and supernatural pure theism, or knowledge of God, and the true and only faith of God incarnate, with the doctrines and laws of grace. This, then, is the authority from which the revolt is to be made, be that revolt what it may.
[*"St. Jerome, with some others, interprets this revolt to be the rebellion of the nations or provinces against the Roman Empire. … They have revolted, and no manifestation has appeared." Thus, the revolt is spiritual, not temporal.]
{Lect. 1 of Temporal Power of the Vicar of Christ's 2nd part (4 lectures), "The Perpetual Conflict of the Vicar of Christ", pp. 81-173}

v. 4: "And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to be delivered; that, when she should be delivered, he might devour her son."
Fr. Kramer, p. 284 wrote:
Some eminent cardinal may be particularly outstanding in his efforts to stem the tide of demoralization of bishops and priests. Satan will know, and the world-powers will know, that he is the likely choice for the papacy, and that if elected, he will convoke a general council and exercise his supreme jurisdiction to inaugurate measures of reform. Satan knows that his own hopes of a rich harvest of souls will then be dashed to the ground. Hence he must avert the election or have the pope αssαssιnαtҽd when elected. The judgment is about to begin “at the house of God” (1 Peter IV. 17). The influence of the dragon will every­ where aim to subject the Church to the state. This persecution is thus a political subjugation, and one third of the bishops and priests will be ripe for apostasy. Satan’s intention is to subject the newly-elected pope also to the purposes of the World-powers or to plot his death. He may contrive an assurance of safety and immunity from harm for the cardinals to convene for the election the more easily to take the pope-elect prisoner. The dragon will want to intimidate the new pope into non-interference—to let affairs run and develop as heretofore. In that way would he “devour the son”, absorb the papacy and alone direct and rule the world.
"Subject[ing] the Church to the state" is exactly what Dignatitis Humanæ and Vatican II ecuмenism did, too.

v. 5: "And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with an iron rod: and her son was taken up to God, and to his throne."
Fr. Kramer, p. 285-6 wrote:
A general council may decree the reforms, but the pope must enforce them. These decrees will be the “seven thunders” mentioned in chapter ten.
…
The clause, “that he might devour her son”, does not necessarily mean assassination. The dragon is a symbolic form of the evil world-powers, who will resent the existence of a spiritual empire among them and through them and independent of them in its essential functions and will attempt to subject this empire to their will and service. They will try to make the Church a “state church” everywhere. This is possible only if they can subject the pope to their wills and compel him to teach and rule as they direct. That would be literally devouring the papacy. Since they are defeated in this, they have the pope αssαssιnαtҽd and “he is taken up to God and to His throne”, just as Christ by His death “was taken away from distress” (Is. LIII. 8).
…
this “son” will hardly have time to purify the Church, before he is persecuted, imprisoned and martyred. He is therefore surely not Christ.
…
This pope will be given the power to rule over the destiny of the Church immediately from Heaven. He carries out the will of God and loses his life in consequence; and immediately as part of his reward, he receives in Heaven patronage over the Church on earth.
Could this "man child, who was to rule all nations with an iron rod" be Card. Siri? If so, it's comforting that "he receives in Heaven patronage over the Church on earth."

The following verses show the triumph of St. Michael, a newly elected Pope, and cardinals who uphold and enforce the "Seven Thunders" of the orthodox council.

Keep reading. It's fascinating. And it's public revelation.