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Offline Charlemagne

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The Novus Ordo Church in a Nutshell
« on: September 20, 2013, 01:45:24 PM »
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  • Francis Blasts Abortion Ater Decrying Focus on Rules

    VATICAN CITY (AP) — Pope Francis offered an olive branch of sorts to the doctrine-minded, conservative wing of the Catholic Church on Friday as he denounced abortions as a symptom of today's "throw-away culture" and encouraged ["encouraged," not "forbade under pain of excommunication"] Catholic doctors to refuse to perform them.

    Francis issued a strong anti-abortion message and cited Vatican teaching on the need to defend the unborn during an audience with Catholic gynecologists.

    It came a day after he was quoted as blasting the church's obsession with "small-minded rules" that are driving the faithful [they're anything but faithful] away. In an interview that has sent shockwaves through the church, Francis urged its pastors to focus on being merciful and welcoming rather than insisting only on such divisive, hot-button issues as abortion, gay marriage and contraception ["divisive" only because apostates have lost the Faith - if they ever possessed it].

    Even before the interview was published, some conservatives had voiced disappointment that Francis had shied away from restating such church rules. Francis explained his reason for doing so in the interview with the Jesuit journal La Civilta Cattolica, saying church teaching on such issues is well-known, he supports it, but that he doesn't feel it necessary to repeat it constantly.

    He did repeat it on Friday, however. In his comments, Francis denounced today's "throw-away culture" that justifies disposing of lives, and said doctors in particular had been forced into situations where they are called to "not respect life." ["forced"? Please!]

    "Every child that isn't born, but is unjustly condemned to be aborted, has the face of Jesus Christ, has the face of the Lord," he said.

    He urged the gynecologists to abide by their consciences and help bring lives into the world. "Things have a price and can be for sale, but people have a dignity that is priceless and worth far more than things," he said. [pure gobbledygook]

    Francis' comments to Civilta Cattolica contained no change in church teaching [as if he's allowed to change Church teaching on such issues - not that that would stop him from trying], but they represented a radical shift in tone and stood in stark contrast to the priorities of his two immediate predecessors.

    John Paul II and Benedict XVI were both intellectuals [that's questionable - and a bit laugable] for whom doctrine was paramount [Satanic doctrine, yes], an orientation that guided the selection of a generation of bishops and cardinals who, in countries like the United States, have put themselves on the front lines in opposing abortion and gay marriage. They now find themselves being asked to preach more to those who have fallen away from the church and offer them a compassionate welcome home.

    Greg Burke, the Vatican's senior communications adviser, insisted Friday that Francis was by no means calling into question the papacies and priorities of his predecessors [I certainly call into question the "papacies" since October 1958].

    "The pope is not condemning his predecessors," Burke told The Associated Press. "What he is saying is 'We've spent a lot of time talking about the boundaries. We've spent a lot of time talking about what is sin and what's not. Now let's move on. Let's talk about mercy. Let's talk about love.'"[Note: Not "charity," but "love." Modernist-speak.]

    Dublin Archbishop Diarmuid Martin, Ireland's most reform-minded Catholic leader, said Francis' comments will be tough for the church to put into action because there is a tendency to get "trapped" into the right and wrong, white and black of Catholic teaching ["Trapped" into Catholic teaching. Beautiful! :rolleyes:]

    "It's a way of thinking that will actually be very hard for the right and the left of the church, either of them, to accept," he told RTE radio. [There is no "right" and "left" in the Church, only Catholics.] But he said Francis wasn't dismissing everything that has been taught to date.

    "He's saying let's move in a different direction." [Oh, he's proven that!]

    Bishop Thomas Tobin of Providence, Rhode Island, just last week had said in an interview with his diocesan newspaper that he was "a little bit disappointed" that Francis hadn't spoken out about abortion. On Friday, in an official statement responding to the La Civilta Cattolica article, Tobin said he admired Francis' leadership.

    "Being a Catholic doesn't mean having to choose between doctrine and charity, between truth and love. It includes both. We are grateful to Pope Francis for reminding us of that vision," he said.

    U.S. Cardinal Timothy Dolan, who as head of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops has taken a lead role in voicing the U.S. church's opposition to contraception and gay marriage, said the church isn't the only one obsessed with such issues — today's culture is.

    "Every pope has a different strategy," Dolan told "CBS This Morning." ''What I think he's saying is, 'Those are important issues and the church has got to keep talking about them, but we need to talk about them in a fresh new way. If we keep kind of a negative finger-wagging tone, it's counterproductive. "

    He said that while Francis had sent shockwaves throughout the church, clearly it was necessary.

    "Every day I think, 'Thank God he was elected.' ... Every day I say, 'This man is batting a thousand.'" [Chuckles the "Cardinal" never disappoints! :clown:]

    SOURCE: http://news.yahoo.com/pope-blasts-abortion-decrying-focus-rules-131410774.html

    --------------------------------------

    Sorry for the Mr. Z-style redlining. My only thought when I read this garbage is this: "Come out of her, My people, and partake not of her sins."
    "Kindness is for fools! They [modernists] want to be treated with oil, soap, and caresses, but they ought to be beaten with fists. In a duel, you don't count or measure the blows, you strike as you can. War is not made with charity. It is a struggle, a duel." -- Pope St. Pius X

    Offline Solidus

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    The Novus Ordo Church in a Nutshell
    « Reply #1 on: September 20, 2013, 02:30:46 PM »
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  • Quote
    My only thought when I read this garbage is this: "Come out of her, My people, and partake not of her sins."


    This line of Holy Scripture has lost all meaning to me. I've heard protestants use it against Catholics so many times that, when said by a SV, my brain automatically associates them with some uneducated and shoeless baptist. SV's need to find new "buzz words" (Francis is good at those!), because any non-sede who comes across a SV will think the SV movement is just another protestant end times sect created in the good ole United Sects of America.


    I don't mean to derail the thread, but it reminded me of:


    Quote
    "I am extremely sorry to find how much the Word of God is abused; how it is turned into wretched rhymes, sung and jangled in every ale house and tavern; and all this in a false construction and counter meaning to the inspired writers. I am sorry to perceive the readers of the Bible discover so little of it in their practice; for I am sure charity was never in a more languishing condition, virtue never at a lower ebb, or God Himself less honored or worse served in Christendom." - Henry VIII



    And to say B16 and JP2 weren't intellectuals because you disagree with them is asinine. How many doctorates do you hold? How many languages do you speak?


    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    The Novus Ordo Church in a Nutshell
    « Reply #2 on: September 20, 2013, 03:33:56 PM »
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  • Quote from: Solidus
    Quote
    My only thought when I read this garbage is this: "Come out of her, My people, and partake not of her sins."


    This line of Holy Scripture has lost all meaning to me. I've heard protestants use it against Catholics so many times that, when said by a SV, my brain automatically associates them with some uneducated and shoeless baptist. SV's need to find new "buzz words" (Francis is good at those!), because any non-sede who comes across a SV will think the SV movement is just another protestant end times sect created in the good ole United Sects of America.


    I don't mean to derail the thread, but it reminded me of:


    Quote
    "I am extremely sorry to find how much the Word of God is abused; how it is turned into wretched rhymes, sung and jangled in every ale house and tavern; and all this in a false construction and counter meaning to the inspired writers. I am sorry to perceive the readers of the Bible discover so little of it in their practice; for I am sure charity was never in a more languishing condition, virtue never at a lower ebb, or God Himself less honored or worse served in Christendom." - Henry VIII



    And to say B16 and JP2 weren't intellectuals because you disagree with them is asinine. How many doctorates do you hold? How many languages do you speak?


    JP2's writing style was pure jibberish and, for the most part, so was B16.  They hold the doctorates but we don't see the signs of intellect in the writing - unless they wrote jibberish for the masses but more precise stuff in their private writings.   As for languages, don't almost all Europeans speak multiple languages?  However, let's set that aside for a moment.  In what way was JPII strong on doctrine?  Same with B16.  


    Offline Stephen Francis

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    The Novus Ordo Church in a Nutshell
    « Reply #3 on: September 20, 2013, 03:38:55 PM »
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  • Automatically calling someone an "intellectual" because they hold a degree from a university is like automatically assuming that a person is a chef because he has graduated from a culinary college.

    What if that "culinary college" was Hamburger University, the very real business-management and fast-food-process-training school that is an arm of the McDonald's Corporation?

    Ratzinger palled around with Hans Kung and other liberal modernists at Vatican II. He has called the literal historicity of the Resurrection of Our Lord into question. He has said that it MUST be seen as POSSIBLE and VALID to read the Old Testament the "Jewish way" and conclude that Our Lord Jesus Christ is NOT prophesied and prefigured as the Messiah.

    Wojtyla founded his anti-papacy on the dignity, exaltation and centrality of MAN. Everything about religion, to Wojtyla, was an exercise in fulfilling, completing, bettering and perfecting that which is supposedly inherent in MAN.

    These men were heretics. They taught not one aspect of Catholic faith that they did not reinterpret or compromise. Wojtyla couldn't even leave Our Lady's Rosary alone; he had to pretend to add glow-in-the-dark(ness of error) "Luminous Mysteries".

    Protestant yo-yo Billy Graham has a doctorate. So do dozens of Calvinist heretic Protestant "preachers", whose books and conferences generate millions of dollars in revenue every year.

    The job of the Popes (and, by the way, the job of EVERY CATHOLIC) is to PRACTICE, DEFEND, SAFEGUARD and TEACH the Catholic Faith, whole and undefiled.

    People used to either choose to walk into a Catholic church building or not based on what they KNEW to be inside, and what they KNEW such a place to represent. REPRESENT. OBJECTIVELY. AS A MATTER OF FACT, not as a matter of one's interpretation.

    Now, most Catholic buildings are viewed as little better than the average hospital chapel, where even some "Catholic" hospitals have to pay lip-service to "interfaith" awareness and support.

    Your "intellectual" anti-popes did exactly what the word "intellectual" implies in the Modernist world; they INTELLECTUALIZED an IDEA of "faith" as a subjective, self-determined, individualistic matter which is settled in the mind and heart of each person on his own.

    The Roman Catholic Faith, that is, the Faith of the Israel of God, that is, the Faith taught by Almighty God through the prophets, then Our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, then the holy Apostles and then their successors, is NOT FIRST A MATTER OF INDIVIDUAL ASSENT.

    It is first a matter of OBJECTIVE DIVINE LAW which is binding upon the faithful, disobedience to which is SIN.

    Intellectual apostates like Ratzinger, Wojtyla and Bergoglio can't speak against sin, because there's no way to objectively qualify and demand universal assent to the impressions, feelings and "leadings" of human hearts.

    They were intellectuals, alright; they loved, chased and received the esteem of men; truly, Our Lord tells us, they have received their reward.

    I'd rather love Our Lord, honor Our Lady and prostrate myself at the sound of the Voice of Holy Church

    AND THEN SPEND AN ETERNITY IN HELL FOR MY RECKLESS AND WANTON WASTE OF GOD'S SANCTIFYING GRACES

    before I'd want to be identified with those "intellectuals" and their damnable heresies, languages, doctorates and the praise of the heathen be damned.

    Kyrie eleison.

    Immaculate Heart of Mary, triumph soon!

    Most Sacred Heart of Jesus, have mercy on us.
    This evil of heresy spreads itself. The doctrines of godliness are overturned; the rules of the Church are in confusion; the ambition of the unprincipled seizes upon places of authority; and the chief seat [the Papacy] is now openly proposed as a rewar

    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    The Novus Ordo Church in a Nutshell
    « Reply #4 on: September 20, 2013, 03:48:57 PM »
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  • Quote from: Charlemagne

    "The pope is not condemning his predecessors," Burke told The Associated Press. "What he is saying is 'We've spent a lot of time talking about the boundaries. We've spent a lot of time talking about what is sin and what's not. Now let's move on. Let's talk about mercy. Let's talk about love.'"[Note: Not "charity," but "love." Modernist-speak.]


    This is how these guys in the Vatican play the media.  Since Vatican II, there has not been any particular emphasis on sins to the point that most novus ordites think sin is passe.  First, they spend decades deliberately being "loose" on judgement, then when it's time to alter things further, they come out with the whole "we need to loosen up" approach.

    So, the don't talk about sin, and they DO NOT take action against the continual spread of laws permitting abortion in the nations of the world (within days of the last WYD, Brazil legalized abortion!).  The pope could publicly declare that anyone who participates in abortion, whether the receiver of the treatment, the provider of the treatment or the one funding the treatment, is automatically excommunicated and this is a reserved sin.  Sure, we can all say "that goes without saying" but it doesn't go without saying.  Without saying, the only thing going on is more and more abortions.  If the pope makes a public statement, then everyone has been warned publicly.  

    Archbishop LeFebrvre rightly pointed out that in his travels, JPII often attracted crowds but that after he left there never was a blossoming of Catholicism and this is double true with F1.    


    Offline Charlemagne

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    « Reply #5 on: September 20, 2013, 04:07:15 PM »
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  • Quote from: Solidus
    Quote
    My only thought when I read this garbage is this: "Come out of her, My people, and partake not of her sins."


    This line of Holy Scripture has lost all meaning to me. I've heard protestants use it against Catholics so many times that, when said by a SV, my brain automatically associates them with some uneducated and shoeless baptist. SV's need to find new "buzz words" (Francis is good at those!), because any non-sede who comes across a SV will think the SV movement is just another protestant end times sect created in the good ole United Sects of America.


    I don't mean to derail the thread, but it reminded me of:


    Quote
    "I am extremely sorry to find how much the Word of God is abused; how it is turned into wretched rhymes, sung and jangled in every ale house and tavern; and all this in a false construction and counter meaning to the inspired writers. I am sorry to perceive the readers of the Bible discover so little of it in their practice; for I am sure charity was never in a more languishing condition, virtue never at a lower ebb, or God Himself less honored or worse served in Christendom." - Henry VIII



    And to say B16 and JP2 weren't intellectuals because you disagree with them is asinine. How many doctorates do you hold? How many languages do you speak?


    I couldn't care less how many languages or doctorates they held/hold. Their writings comprised a load of psychobabble, often which had absolutely nothing to do with the Faith, but rather the "People of God." I'd trust the janitor at our chapel to teach Cathechism to my children before either of those two phonies.
    "Kindness is for fools! They [modernists] want to be treated with oil, soap, and caresses, but they ought to be beaten with fists. In a duel, you don't count or measure the blows, you strike as you can. War is not made with charity. It is a struggle, a duel." -- Pope St. Pius X

    Offline 2Vermont

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    The Novus Ordo Church in a Nutshell
    « Reply #6 on: September 20, 2013, 04:42:55 PM »
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  • "The pope is not condemning his predecessors," Burke told The Associated Press. "What he is saying is 'We've spent a lot of time talking about the boundaries. We've spent a lot of time talking about what is sin and what's not. Now let's move on. Let's talk about mercy. Let's talk about love.'

    Really?  

    :barf:
    If any one saith, that the ceremonies, vestments, and outward signs, which the Catholic Church makes use of in the celebration of masses, are incentives to impiety, rather than offices of piety; let him be anathema. - Council of Trent

    Offline StCeciliasGirl

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    The Novus Ordo Church in a Nutshell
    « Reply #7 on: September 20, 2013, 05:23:45 PM »
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  • Whenever I hear a new-priest, new-bishop, or frank speak of "love", I just know they're fantasizing about physical rape of men, boys, and probably farm animals.

    Burke's "What is sin and what is love" ....sounds like he's about to [continue] denying paedophilia is a sin and in fact rename it 'love'.

    The call to "come out of Babylon", just because it might have been misused by others, is still of God. Satan "misunderstood" lots of Scripture; Calvin and Luther probably did even worse jobs at reading interpreting; doesn't mean the Holy Scriptures were ever wrong.
    Legem credendi, lex statuit supplicandi

    +JMJ


    Offline OHCA

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    The Novus Ordo Church in a Nutshell
    « Reply #8 on: September 20, 2013, 11:25:05 PM »
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  • Quote from: Solidus
    This line of Holy Scripture has lost all meaning to me. I've heard protestants use it against Catholics so many times that, when said by a SV, my brain automatically associates them with some uneducated and shoeless baptist. SV's need to find new "buzz words" (Francis is good at those!), because any non-sede who comes across a SV will think the SV movement is just another protestant end times sect created in the good ole United Sects of America.


    A line of Holy Scripture is merely "buzz words" and "has lost all meaning to [you]," huh?  Just because a bunch of prots misuse it, you're ready to play like the line doesn't exist or has no meaning?

    Offline ThomisticPhilosopher

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    The Novus Ordo Church in a Nutshell
    « Reply #9 on: September 21, 2013, 01:44:02 AM »
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  • Quote from: OHCA
    Quote from: Solidus
    This line of Holy Scripture has lost all meaning to me. I've heard protestants use it against Catholics so many times that, when said by a SV, my brain automatically associates them with some uneducated and shoeless baptist. SV's need to find new "buzz words" (Francis is good at those!), because any non-sede who comes across a SV will think the SV movement is just another protestant end times sect created in the good ole United Sects of America.


    A line of Holy Scripture is merely "buzz words" and "has lost all meaning to [you]," huh?  Just because a bunch of prots misuse it, you're ready to play like the line doesn't exist or has no meaning?


    Here is a good buzz word for you, non-Catholic Pope. Replace that every time you insert the name of _rancis.

    Or like Hesse would so often retort, he is a heretical Pope. Then quickly respond afterwards that is objectively of course (objective is another way of saying the external forum) and I presume that you should know materially heretical too of course! Now what is interesting is his distinction with act and potency... With regards to heresy... Ohh if only historically this would be true, the practice of the Church is totally alien to the way Hesse (who by the way is very intelligent and is pretty honest about other issues at the same time).

    I have confirmed on several of his talks, he truly believes that the only way someone can be formally a heretic is saying something of the sort, "I understand what the Council of Trent says, but I believe otherwise." Never mind the fact that Ratzinger said that Gaudium et Spes is a "counter syllabus", how much more formal can that get? Or forget the fact that they recited the Oath against modernism in their ordination, neither forget the fact that they had like 12+ years of theology and philosophy which would at some point meet with the authentic teaching of the Church on the matter.

      Formal heresy:  
    Quote
     “From the moment that one sufficiently knows the existence of the rule of the faith in the Church and that, on any point whatsoever, for whatever motive and in whatever form, one refuses to submit to it,” says the canonist Michel, “formal heresy is complete.” (“Héresie, Héretique,” Dictionnaire de Théologie Catholique [Paris: Letouzey 1909-] 6:2222)
    https://keybase.io/saintaquinas , has all my other verified accounts including PGP key plus BTC address for bitcoin tip jar. A.M.D.G.

     

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