Author Topic: The New Mass promulgated? (Read 1178 times)

Centroamerica · « **on:** April 25, 2016, 04:53:32 PM »

Anybody got any quotes from Traditionalist pioneers about the promulgation or non-promulgation of the New Mass?

I think I can recall that Fr. Hesse said that it was never promulgated, but that Paul VI simply said "I like this book here"...ANYBODY GOT A LINK TO THAT VIDEO OT TEXT????

Nadir · « **Reply #1 on:** April 25, 2016, 09:41:56 PM »

Read Apostolic Constitutuion, Missale Romanum of Paul VI, 1969.

There you find he uses, in the final paras. such words as "we wish" and "we hope", except for the words "we order" for the date it should go into effect.

Have you read Fr Wathen's The Great Sacrilege?

OOps, I see on second glance that you asked for quotes from Traditionalist pioneers, but I'll let this stand.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #2 on:** April 26, 2016, 07:46:08 AM »

It was promulgated.

http://www.traditionalmass.org/articles/article.php?id=19

TKGS · « **Reply #3 on:** April 26, 2016, 08:29:54 AM »

Quote from: Nadir

Have you read Fr Wathen's The Great Sacrilege?

OOps, I see on second glance that you asked for quotes from Traditionalist pioneers, but I'll let this stand.

I would consider Father Wathen to be a "Traditionalist pioneer". The Great Sacrilege is available online. The print version is no longer available through TAN.

sea leopard · « **Reply #4 on:** April 26, 2016, 12:22:06 PM »

Reference the above link at traditionalmass

The June 1971 Notification

????? The Notification Instructione de Constitutione (14 June 1971) is entitled ?On the use and the beginning of the obligation of the new Roman Missal, [Breviary], and Calendar.? [43]

??????????? This Notification, like the October 1969 Instruction, addresses some of the practical difficulties which delayed implementing the new liturgical legislation.

????? ?Having attentively considered these things, the Sacred Congregation for Divine Worship, with the approval of the Supreme Pontiff, lays down the following rules on the use of the Roman Missal.?[44]

????? It orders that in any given country, ?from the day on which the translated texts must be used for celebrations in the vernacular, only the revised form of the Mass and [the breviary] will be allowed, even for those who continue to use Latin.?[45]

????? The plain sense of the text is that the new rite must ?be used, the traditional rite is forbidden; the pope wills it, and all must obey. <<<<<<

Did not Benedict or Francis say during the "NEGOTIATIONS" with the SSPX that the Old Mass had never been abrogated (done away with) ??

Seems like I heard or read that from Bishop Fellay.

Anybody confirm ??
tnx

Nadir · « **Reply #5 on:** April 26, 2016, 03:45:26 PM »

Quote from: TKGS

Quote from: Nadir
Have you read Fr Wathen's The Great Sacrilege?

OOps, I see on second glance that you asked for quotes from Traditionalist pioneers, but I'll let this stand.

I would consider Father Wathen to be a "Traditionalist pioneer". The Great Sacrilege is available online. The print version is no longer available through TAN.

Sorry for the sloppy writing! When I said that, I was not referring Fr Wathen but to Apostolic Constitutuion, Missale Romanum of Paul VI, 1969.

Centroamerica · « **Reply #6 on:** April 26, 2016, 07:35:08 PM »

Quote from: sea leopard

Reference the above link at traditionalmass

The June 1971 Notification

????? The plain sense of the text is that the new rite must ?be used, the traditional rite is forbidden; the pope wills it, and all must obey. <<<<<<

Did not Benedict or Francis say during the "NEGOTIATIONS" with the SSPX that the Old Mass had never been abrogated (done away with) ??

Seems like I heard or read that from Bishop Fellay.

Anybody confirm ??
tnx

It is in the Motu proprio "Summorum Pontificuм". Before Benedict XVI released his Motu Proprio saying that the Traditional Mass was never abrogated, the sedevacantists used to push that on the SSPX as a reason for why they are "disobeying who they believe to be a Pope on dogmatic matters". It was one of the "he's the pope so you have to obey every word" arguments that both liberals and sedevacantists make. In this case, they were forced to exclude that argument because the Pope spoke up and clarified that the SSPX was right all along and that nobody ever tried to abrogate the Tridentine Mass. Fact of the matter is that individual bishops, dioceses, cardinals and Vatican officials did suppress the Latin Mass, but this suppression was always illicit. Benedict XVI confirmed this. The liberals and sedevacantists were wrong and since then have scrapped that argument (but apparently forgot to update this site!!!). :smile:

Centroamerica · « **Reply #7 on:** April 26, 2016, 07:49:33 PM »

Motorede · « **Reply #8 on:** April 26, 2016, 08:03:27 PM »

Quote from: TKGS

Quote from: Nadir
Have you read Fr Wathen's The Great Sacrilege?

OOps, I see on second glance that you asked for quotes from Traditionalist pioneers, but I'll let this stand.

I would consider Father Wathen to be a "Traditionalist pioneer". The Great Sacrilege is available online. The print version is no longer available through TAN.

The Great Sacrilege has been reprinted and is now available at Our Lady of the Pillar bookstore, 4049 South Fifth Street,Louisville, KY 40214.

Prayerful · « **Reply #9 on:** April 26, 2016, 08:09:25 PM »

Quote from: Centroamerica

Quote from: sea leopard
Reference the above link at traditionalmass

The June 1971 Notification

????? The plain sense of the text is that the new rite must ?be used, the traditional rite is forbidden; the pope wills it, and all must obey. <<<<<<

Did not Benedict or Francis say during the "NEGOTIATIONS" with the SSPX that the Old Mass had never been abrogated (done away with) ??

Seems like I heard or read that from Bishop Fellay.

Anybody confirm ??
tnx

It is in the Motu proprio "Summorum Pontificuм". Before Benedict XVI released his Motu Proprio saying that the Traditional Mass was never abrogated, the sedevacantists used to push that on the SSPX as a reason for why they are "disobeying who they believe to be a Pope on dogmatic matters". It was one of the "he's the pope so you have to obey every word" arguments that both liberals and sedevacantists make. In this case, they were forced to exclude that argument because the Pope spoke up and clarified that the SSPX was right all along and that nobody ever tried to abrogate the Tridentine Mass. Fact of the matter is that individual bishops, dioceses, cardinals and Vatican officials did suppress the Latin Mass, but this suppression was always illicit. Benedict XVI confirmed this. The liberals and sedevacantists were wrong and since then have scrapped that argument (but apparently forgot to update this site!!!). :smile:

I don't know how BXVI is correct. The so called 'Agatha Christie Indult' (she was Anglican, but so loved the Mass she put her name to a petition to Paul VI to save it) allowed the Mass with permission throughout England and Wales. There were any number of personal Indults including the one to the Founder of Opus Fr Josemaria Escriva (a possible hypocrisy by this Modernist Secret Society). Various orders could still say the Mass via Indult, including even the pre-Trentine Masses of some Orders. Perhaps that is how he means it wasn't abrogated, but outside the Indult, the Mass of Ages was essentially forbidden.

What did Benedict XVI mean and was he correct?

Thank you.

TKGS · « **Reply #10 on:** April 27, 2016, 06:31:28 AM »

Quote from: Motorede

Quote from: TKGS
[The Great Sacrilege is available online. The print version is no longer available through TAN.

The Great Sacrilege has been reprinted and is now available at Our Lady of the Pillar bookstore, 4049 South Fifth Street,Louisville, KY 40214.

This is good news. The hard copy book needs to be published and widely available. I can say that it was the first "traditional" book about the Mass that I read that actually started me looking at tradition.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #11 on:** April 27, 2016, 08:32:00 AM »

Quote from: Centroamerica

[It is in the Motu proprio "Summorum Pontificuм". Before Benedict XVI released his Motu Proprio saying that the Traditional Mass was never abrogated, the sedevacantists used to push that on the SSPX as a reason for why they are "disobeying who they believe to be a Pope on dogmatic matters".

Even if the Tridentine Mass had never been abrogated, the question still remains the same, whether the Catholic Church can PROMULGATE a harmful and defective rite of Mass. It came into almost universal usage throughout the Church based on promulgation from Rome ... and that's contrary to the Church's indefectibility. This particular question isn't about "dogmatic matters" but about the Church's Universal Discipline.

Quote from: Centroamerica

It was one of the "he's the pope so you have to obey every word" arguments that both liberals and sedevacantists make.

Straw man. Nobody says you must obey "every word". We're only saying that the Magisterium and Universal Discipline of the Church cannot defect.