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Author Topic: the new "Chosenites"  (Read 2307 times)

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Offline Mark 79

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Re: the new "Chosenites"
« Reply #30 on: November 23, 2022, 07:14:58 PM »
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  • A pandemic is when people keel over in the street and people are crying "bring out your dead". The cemetaries weren't particulary busy in 2020.
    Look 'em up in a medical dictionary:

    epidemic [ep″ĭ-dem´ik]
    occuring suddenly in numbers clearly in excess of normal expectancy, in contrast to endemic or sporadic. The term is used especially of infectious diseases but is also applied to any disease, injury, or other health-related event occurring in such outbreaks.

    pan·dem·ic (pan-dem'ik),

    Denoting a disease affecting or attacking the population of an extensive region, country, continent, global; extensively epidemic.


    Offline Miles Christi

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    Re: the new "Chosenites"
    « Reply #31 on: November 23, 2022, 07:45:44 PM »
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  • Since my recent brush with death I have been struggling thinking about "Trads" not as Catholics, but as the latest usurpers, the new "Chosenites."

    To be clear, in no way do I impugn Catholicism or the true Church, but only the most arrogant ersatz pontiffs among "Trads." In no way is this an endorsement of or submission to the Novus Ordo and its lineage of impostors "subsisting in" the Chair of Peter.

    Cue the rage.
    I had to reread this a time or two, and the "since" now registers.  My first thought was that at the bitter end, you were thinking this.  When that rocket or mortar round landed behind the latrine at 0530 in Baghdad while I was in a pinch, all I could think was ,"Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner!"  


    Offline StLouisIX

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    Re: the new "Chosenites"
    « Reply #32 on: November 23, 2022, 09:59:28 PM »
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  • Feudalism also brings many problems. Just look at the easey with which the weak Visigothic monarchy collapsed in the face of the Moorish invasion of 711.

    Or the fact that the Moors had control of the peninsula until the caliphate collapsed and fragmented into taifas. Or the fact that the Moors had control of the peninsula until the caliphate collapsed and fragmented into taifas. Once the caliphate is fragmented, the Christians quickly take over the majority of the peninsula.

    Or that the opposition of many of the HRE principalities agains the emperor was one of the main causes of the rise of Protestantism.

    In the Middle Ages, the betrayal of the Fourth Crusade took place, in which the Crusaders looted Constantinople, weakening the Byzantines and facilitating their fall at the hands of the Turks, which also happened in the Middle Ages.

    Yes it's true, weak monarchies such as feudal monarchies has more difficulty to challenge the Church, but they also work worse.
    Not to derail this thread, but I see your point that feudalism wasn't perfect either. I indicated this in my OP, but I appreciate the points you raised.

    It seems that the ideal perhaps would be a blend of a centralized system and the feudal system, a system that is centralized to an extent but at the same time does not eliminate subsidiarity.

    Concerning the Fourth Crusade, the Byzantines had many issues well before 1204 as this video describes:



    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: the new "Chosenites"
    « Reply #33 on: November 24, 2022, 04:15:04 AM »
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  • Not to derail this thread, but I see your point that feudalism wasn't perfect either. I indicated this in my OP, but I appreciate the points you raised.

    It seems that the ideal perhaps would be a blend of a centralized system and the feudal system, a system that is centralized to an extent but at the same time does not eliminate subsidiarity.…

    No derailment at all. Actually on target. As with the original concern I posted, all my, your, and Drolo's examples share a common problem—apparent headlessness.

    Of course, we do have Jesus Christ as the head of the Church (and properly too, of State), but without His or His Vicar's immediate tangible "smack down" corrections, Church, State, and individuals stray in myriad directions, willing 'victims' of itchy ears and false teachers.


    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: the new "Chosenites"
    « Reply #34 on: November 24, 2022, 04:42:24 AM »
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  • I had to reread this a time or two, and the "since" now registers.  My first thought was that at the bitter end, you were thinking this.  When that rocket or mortar round landed behind the latrine at 0530 in Baghdad while I was in a pinch, all I could think was ,"Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner!" 

    Perhaps you do not understand my perspective on "since." Certainly "Nothing focuses a man's mind like impending death." Of course, the immediate spectre of death demands prompt reflection and contrition, but my post is not about that immediacy and urgency of contrition in the time near death. Too, current events parallel with a global "brush with death." It's bad 'out there.'

    My post regards the things I have been thinking about "since" ("after") that immediacy, the aftermath, specifically:

    "Why have myriads of 'Trads' usurped, arrogated to themselves, authority (and charisms) that we do not have?"

    I do think that, as Drolo and St. Louis have hinted, that the apparent headlessness makes a vacuum, a void that more easily allows individuals (and individual leaders of sects/factions) to wander according to their/our various proclivities and conscupiscences.

    Before my brushes with death I wondered about these problems. In the immediacy of the brushes, I properly had no time for abstract concerns about  the world's problems. In the aftermath of this most recent brush, I have the luxury (Deo gratias!) of again pondering such abstract (?) concerns. Why are there so many little 'popes' leading in different directions?

    Capisce?


    Though it has little to do with my original post, my favorite prayer touches on your grenade anecdote.

    Prayer of St. Augustine

    Before Thy eyes, O Lord, we bring our offences, and we compare them with the stripes we have received.
    If we consider the evil we have wrought, what we suffer is little, what we deserve is great.
    What we have committed is very grave, what we have suffered is very slight.
    We feel the punishment of sin, yet withdraw not from the obstinacy of sinning.
    Under Thy lash our inconstancy is visited, but our sinfulness is not changed.
    Our suffering soul is tormented but our neck is not bent.
    Our life groans under sorrow, yet mends not in deed.
    If Thou spare us we correct not our ways; if Thou punish we cannot endure it.
    In time of correction we confess our wrong-doing; after Thy visitation we forget that we have wept.
    If Thou stretchest forth Thy hand we promise amendment; if Thou withholdest the sword we keep not our promise.
    If Thou strikest we cry out for mercy; if Thou sparest we again provoke Thee to strike.
    Here we are before Thee, O Lord, shameless criminals; we know that unless Thou pardon we shall deservedly perish.
    Grant then, O almighty Father, without our deserving it, the pardon we ask for; Thou who madest out of nothing those who ask Thee. Through Christ our Lord. Amen.
    Let us pray
    O God, who by sin art offended and by penance pacified, mercifully regard the prayers of Thy suppliant people, and turn away the scourges of Thy wrath, which we deserve for our sins. Through Christ our Lord. Amen.


    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: the new "Chosenites"
    « Reply #35 on: November 24, 2022, 05:04:13 AM »
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  • Are our critics correct? Have we become ʝʊdɛօ-Protestants, every bonehead his/her own little pope, his/her own rabbi?

    Offline Gunter

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    Re: the new "Chosenites"
    « Reply #36 on: November 24, 2022, 10:12:58 AM »
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  • I thought this would help because it rang true for me. 
    https://youtube.com/shorts/0huHxUjoMCo?feature=share

    Offline StLouisIX

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    Re: the new "Chosenites"
    « Reply #37 on: November 24, 2022, 10:40:04 AM »
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  • Perhaps you do not understand my perspective on "since." Certainly "Nothing focuses a man's mind like impending death." Of course, the immediate spectre of death demands prompt reflection and contrition, but my post is not about that immediacy and urgency of contrition in the time near death. Too, current events parallel with a global "brush with death." It's bad 'out there.'

    My post regards the things I have been thinking about "since" ("after") that immediacy, the aftermath, specifically:

    "Why have myriads of 'Trads' usurped, arrogated to themselves, authority (and charisms) that we do not have?"

    I do think that, as Drolo and St. Louis have hinted, that the apparent headlessness makes a vacuum, a void that more easily allows individuals (and individual leaders of sects/factions) to wander according to their/our various proclivities and conscupiscences.

    Before my brushes with death I wondered about these problems. In the immediacy of the brushes, I properly had no time for abstract concerns about  the world's problems. In the aftermath of this most recent brush, I have the luxury (Deo gratias!) of again pondering such abstract (?) concerns. Why are there so many little 'popes' leading in different directions?

    Capisce?


    Though it has little to do with my original post, my favorite prayer touches on your grenade anecdote.

    Prayer of St. Augustine

    Before Thy eyes, O Lord, we bring our offences, and we compare them with the stripes we have received.
    If we consider the evil we have wrought, what we suffer is little, what we deserve is great.
    What we have committed is very grave, what we have suffered is very slight.
    We feel the punishment of sin, yet withdraw not from the obstinacy of sinning.
    Under Thy lash our inconstancy is visited, but our sinfulness is not changed.
    Our suffering soul is tormented but our neck is not bent.
    Our life groans under sorrow, yet mends not in deed.
    If Thou spare us we correct not our ways; if Thou punish we cannot endure it.
    In time of correction we confess our wrong-doing; after Thy visitation we forget that we have wept.
    If Thou stretchest forth Thy hand we promise amendment; if Thou withholdest the sword we keep not our promise.
    If Thou strikest we cry out for mercy; if Thou sparest we again provoke Thee to strike.
    Here we are before Thee, O Lord, shameless criminals; we know that unless Thou pardon we shall deservedly perish.
    Grant then, O almighty Father, without our deserving it, the pardon we ask for; Thou who madest out of nothing those who ask Thee. Through Christ our Lord. Amen.
    Let us pray
    O God, who by sin art offended and by penance pacified, mercifully regard the prayers of Thy suppliant people, and turn away the scourges of Thy wrath, which we deserve for our sins. Through Christ our Lord. Amen.


    Perhaps the most obvious answer to this is, (as you've indicated) is that the apparent headlessness makes it easier for Trads to fall into the sin of intellectual pride, trying to in a sense fill seats that have been apparently vacated. One could try to attribute this to the influence of Americanism on Trad Americans, yet while there's some merit to that argument, I do not think it holds up entirely. Though it is true that American society encourages religious (and therefore moral) anarchy, there were schisms even in the days of the Early Church—see for reference that sad case of Tertullian.

    This intellectual pride is not limited to Trads of course. One sees it in the "post-trad" community, in which characters like Michael Lofton or Jeremiah Bannister see it as their duty to attack Trads whom they see as "schismatics" and "heretics". Yet, if they were true believers in their professed Vatican II doctrine, they should see no problem with Trads if we actually were schismatic heretics. After all, according to V2 and the vast majority of the "Council Fathers" (along with their successors), Protestants and the Orthodox are not in need of conversion, since the Catholic Church merely "subsists" in Christ, and their sacraments "save souls". Should this same logic not be applied to the SSPX, sedevacantists, or the SSPX-Resistance if they actually were "schismatic heretics"? Moreover, isn't all their foul talk against the will of Pope Francis, who officially gave faculties to the Society and said that one should not "proselytize" the Orthodox schismatics? So, it is out of their intellectual pride that these modernist "intellectuals" ignore intellectual honesty and deride the faithful.

    Going further along this point, I would add that the idea of the "e-celeb"/grifter is really an Americanist concept, because it's just the American corruption of nobility ("celebrity culture") applied to the realm of the Internet.

    I think it was Bishop Williamson who remarked once that the division in Traditional circles is on account of the Pope and the clergy simply not doing their jobs. Because the sheperd has been struck, the sheep have been scattered. But of course, this is not an impossible situation—it's just a difficult one.


    Offline dxcat40

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    Re: the new "Chosenites"
    « Reply #38 on: November 24, 2022, 11:04:29 AM »
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  • Are our critics correct? Have we become ʝʊdɛօ-Protestants, every bonehead his/her own little pope, his/her own rabbi?
    I disagree with many, but I don't think so. Most of us are in good faith and attempting to be Catholic. I focus on the Marxist subversion over hammering out theological details. Most of the people commenting have never been trained and have no authority to solve disputes, so it is largely an exercise in futility. A lot of people fight over BoD, etc., but it is a waste of time without some means of authoritatively settling the question and we don't have that means.

    Marxism, on the other hand, has been authoritatively condemned and is what strangles the world all around us. Western and Eastern Marxism dominate and flow through every institution on either "side" for the purpose of Convergence. This "scientific" management of human affairs is, in my opinion, indisputable as an active force in modern societies, and its incompatibility with the Catholic Church led them to seek its destruction. Marxism is behind the UN, Great Reset, technocracy, etc.

    Marxism (Judaism) must be destroyed if the Catholic Church will resurface. Marx delenda est. I call on everyone with the means to oppose Marxism wherever possible and expose their agenda to as many people who can still listen.

    Offline BernardoGui

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    Re: the new "Chosenites"
    « Reply #39 on: November 24, 2022, 11:37:05 AM »
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  • I disagree with many, but I don't think so. Most of us are in good faith and attempting to be Catholic. I focus on the Marxist subversion over hammering out theological details. Most of the people commenting have never been trained and have no authority to solve disputes, so it is largely an exercise in futility. A lot of people fight over BoD, etc., but it is a waste of time without some means of authoritatively settling the question and we don't have that means.

    Marxism, on the other hand, has been authoritatively condemned and is what strangles the world all around us. Western and Eastern Marxism dominate and flow through every institution on either "side" for the purpose of Convergence. This "scientific" management of human affairs is, in my opinion, indisputable as an active force in modern societies, and its incompatibility with the Catholic Church led them to seek its destruction. Marxism is behind the UN, Great Reset, technocracy, etc.

    Marxism (Judaism) must be destroyed if the Catholic Church will resurface. Marx delenda est. I call on everyone with the means to oppose Marxism wherever possible and expose their agenda to as many people who can still listen.
    When I first discovered this forum I was a bit taken aback by all the heated arguments over BoD. If BoD is true it seems like it would affect an infinitesimal number of souls. In our time the Gospel has been preached all over the world so a thorny theological issue like BoD is hardly worth getting worked up over. 
    Obviously it is desirable that Marxism is overcome but Marxism is a chastisement for the world's rejection of truth.
    Just as Attila was considered the scourge of God. 
    I believe the elites have blended cultural marxism with the most toxic elements of consumer capitalism for the ultimate solvent of Christian civilization. 
    There was always a strong nationalist spirit in every marxist country, from China to Romania. They may not have been pleasant places to live but capitalism is the better engine to orchestrate the erosion of sovereignty as we move into a corporate oligarchy or technocracy. At least Klaus Schwabe and his ilk think so. 

    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: the new "Chosenites"
    « Reply #40 on: November 24, 2022, 12:01:50 PM »
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  • …Marx delenda est.…
    Rabbi Hess delenda est. :-) https://judaism.is/assets/moses-hess-the-zionist-who-founded-communism-hoffman.pdf


    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: the new "Chosenites"
    « Reply #41 on: November 24, 2022, 12:04:00 PM »
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  • …capitalism is the better engine to orchestrate the erosion of sovereignty as we move into a corporate oligarchy or technocracy. At least Klaus Schwabe and his ilk think so.

    Jorge and his ilk too!


    Lady de Rothschild’s Road to the Vatican
     
    Dangerous Alliance of Rothschild and Vatican of Francis
    https://www.newagebd.net/article/125494/dangerous-alliance-of-rothschild-and-vatican-of-francis

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: the new "Chosenites"
    « Reply #42 on: November 24, 2022, 07:57:46 PM »
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  • The word "Chosenites", reminded me of a few trad personalities who label their Catholics critics who disagree with their political positions:



     
    "All Sedevacantists & schismatics!"





                    "Biblicist!"





    "Thuc line followers & Feeney-ites!"





     "Haters of Putin, jєωs & Opus Dei"





              "Traditionalist!"



    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Miles Christi

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    Re: the new "Chosenites"
    « Reply #43 on: December 01, 2022, 09:01:44 PM »
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  • Perhaps you do not understand my perspective on "since." Certainly "Nothing focuses a man's mind like impending death." Of course, the immediate spectre of death demands prompt reflection and contrition, but my post is not about that immediacy and urgency of contrition in the time near death. Too, current events parallel with a global "brush with death." It's bad 'out there.'

    My post regards the things I have been thinking about "since" ("after") that immediacy, the aftermath, specifically:

    "Why have myriads of 'Trads' usurped, arrogated to themselves, authority (and charisms) that we do not have?"

    I do think that, as Drolo and St. Louis have hinted, that the apparent headlessness makes a vacuum, a void that more easily allows individuals (and individual leaders of sects/factions) to wander according to their/our various proclivities and conscupiscences.

    Before my brushes with death I wondered about these problems. In the immediacy of the brushes, I properly had no time for abstract concerns about  the world's problems. In the aftermath of this most recent brush, I have the luxury (Deo gratias!) of again pondering such abstract (?) concerns. Why are there so many little 'popes' leading in different directions?

    Capisce?


    Though it has little to do with my original post, my favorite prayer touches on your grenade anecdote.

    Prayer of St. Augustine

    Before Thy eyes, O Lord, we bring our offences, and we compare them with the stripes we have received.
    If we consider the evil we have wrought, what we suffer is little, what we deserve is great.
    What we have committed is very grave, what we have suffered is very slight.
    We feel the punishment of sin, yet withdraw not from the obstinacy of sinning.
    Under Thy lash our inconstancy is visited, but our sinfulness is not changed.
    Our suffering soul is tormented but our neck is not bent.
    Our life groans under sorrow, yet mends not in deed.
    If Thou spare us we correct not our ways; if Thou punish we cannot endure it.
    In time of correction we confess our wrong-doing; after Thy visitation we forget that we have wept.
    If Thou stretchest forth Thy hand we promise amendment; if Thou withholdest the sword we keep not our promise.
    If Thou strikest we cry out for mercy; if Thou sparest we again provoke Thee to strike.
    Here we are before Thee, O Lord, shameless criminals; we know that unless Thou pardon we shall deservedly perish.
    Grant then, O almighty Father, without our deserving it, the pardon we ask for; Thou who madest out of nothing those who ask Thee. Through Christ our Lord. Amen.
    Let us pray
    O God, who by sin art offended and by penance pacified, mercifully regard the prayers of Thy suppliant people, and turn away the scourges of Thy wrath, which we deserve for our sins. Through Christ our Lord. Amen.
    Trust me, I definitely get it.  The  "since" definitely registered with me.  I was just reminiscing about one event of many when I thought I was at my bitter end and relating it to my initial thought upon first reading your post.  The Lord, Jesus Christ, has definitely had mercy on me.