…How is E Michael Jones a worse Catholic than I for sticking to the Novos Ordo?
How is Ann Barnhardt a worse catholic for going to to an FSSP mass?…
These rhetorical questions, as your other observations, do indeed emphasize the problem.A logical result flowing from the lack of an authority that is both recognized and obeyed.
You mention EMJ. When he insists the SSPX is schismatic he repudiates and usurps his own "Pope" Benedict XVI who explicitly stated otherwise in the remission of the excommunications.
Barnhardt's "Islam delenda est" not only butchers Cato, but also usurps Magisterium that prioritizes the Church's battle against the ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan.
In those regards, they too make themselves "new Chosenites," little popes.
A logical result flowing from the lack of an authority that is both recognized and obeyed.Not in the dogmatic sense, not in the sense of true Chosen for the birth of the Messiah.
In what sense are you using "new Chosenites"?
Mark: You mention EMJ. When he insists the SSPX is schismatic he repudiates and usurps his own "Pope" Benedict XVI who explicitly stated otherwise in the remission of the excommunications
These rhetorical questions, as your other observations, do indeed emphasize the problem.They certainly do. I don't appreciate anyone telling me where I should go to mass and I would never do so, but I learn a great deal from their writing.
You mention EMJ. When he insists the SSPX is schismatic he repudiates and usurps his own "Pope" Benedict XVI who explicitly stated otherwise in the remission of the excommunications.
Barnhardt's "Islam delenda est" not only butchers Cato, but also usurps Magisterium that prioritizes the Church's battle against the ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan.
In those regards, they too make themselves "new Chosenites," little popes.
They certainly do. I don't appreciate anyone telling me where I should go to mass and I would never do so, but I learn a great deal from their writing.
Yes, as much as I admire EMJ for pure raw intelligence and a comprehensive grasp of history, I have to wonder the same. EMJ will say, for another example, that jp2 fully consecrated Russia in 1984. (that was after at least two other earlier attempts.) But Sr. Lucy herself said that the 1984 was not successful. So EMJ is obviously contradicting the seer.
Bp. Williamson, just to add gratuitously, is a cleric whom I much admire. But it bothers me that he is so speechless when it comes to SSPX's horrendous sex abuse scandals. Something just does not compute here.
Yes. The shepherds have been struck.
It's almost as though—[hesitates again]—the gates of hell have prevailed.
I know they have not prevailed.
When the fake Sister Lucy says the Consecration has not been done, you know things are really messed up in the Vatican.
.. But Sr. Lucy herself said that the 1984 was not successful. ...
Not in the dogmatic sense, not in the sense of true Chosen for the birth of the Messiah.An attitude that naturally arises from trying to keep the Faith against the Vatican hierarchy and V2 era Papal claimants' words and actions - an unprecedented situation for the Church to find herself. Obedience is not given to the man who claims to be the Pope, whether they are recognized as such or rejected out right. Without obedience there can be no unity.
Instead, in the sense of entitlement, "I'm the Pope and to hell with everyone else."
Men marvellously like to be popes; and the dullest of men, if only he has, as usual, an obstinacy proportioned to his dullness, can in most neighbourhoods carve out a tiny papacy for himself; and if to his dullness he can add pomposity, he may reign gloriously, a little local ecuмenical council in unintermitting session through all the four seasons of the year. Who has time enough, or heart enough, or hope enough, to try to persuade such men? They are not sufficiently interesting to us to be worth our persuading. Let us leave them alone with their glory and their happiness. Let us try to persuade ourselves.Adherence to Tradition since VII requires a certain obstinacy that easily leads to Pontificating.
-Fr. Faber
Michael Hoffman has powerful arguments as to how the Church decline started after usury stopped becoming a mortal sin and the Renaissance paganised the Vatican. Despite many holy popes and thousands of saintly priests, the Church has been retreating since the time of Saint Louis. In 1099 the Church called for a crusade to regain Jerusalem but there was never a crusade called to rescue England from the tyranny of Henry VIII, or France from the revolution. There are also no encyclicals against Jєωιѕн power since the middle ages. Is this because Popes are elected in the Sistine Chapel, decorated with obscene images such as Biagio da Cesena ( a critic of Michaelangelo ) displayed with his privated being devoured by a serpent.
An attitude that naturally arises from trying to keep the Faith against the Vatican hierarchy and V2 era Papal claimants' words and actions - an unprecedented situation for the Church to find herself. Obedience is not given to the man who claims to be the Pope, whether they are recognized as such or rejected out right. Without obedience there can be no unity.
Every group and even certain individuals will have their own idea of what adherence to Tradition entails and treats any other interpretation as borderline heresy/schism.
Adherence to Tradition since VII requires a certain obstinacy that easily leads to Pontificating.
Yes. Notwithstanding those here who deride him, I think Michael has well-docuмented the "Renaissance" as a key point of decline.Since the Renaissance, the Church has disconnected itself from science, politics and the problem of the jews. The last time Rome mentioned the danger of the jews was in 1555 with a papal bull entitled "cuм Nimis Absurdum". Talk to a run of the mill trad today about the Jews and although you will find, with some difficulty, books by the Rev Denis Fahey and Mgr Jouin, you wont find any encyclicals to back you up. Most of these trads will look at you as some kind of kook, after all, it never concerned Mgr Lefebvre.
But Mgr Williamson, for some really bizarre reason, doesn't find it odd that many are appalled about his pedophile roomate or his support of Carlos Urrotigoity
…as no SSPX book touches on these subjects honestly.…
A sedevacantist bishop, whose name I've forgotten also recommended the jab.Are you talking about Bishop Sanborn? If so, I don't think he explicitly recommended the jab. He seemed neutral on the jab, but he was still vocally against the scamdemic lockdowns and procedures.
This is a new one I haven't heard. Is it public knowledge that I haven't picked up on (since I largely bailed on +Williamson after his lauding the New Mass, miracles in the New Order, etc.)?Page 14 here https://www.stmaryskssspxmc.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/The_Recusant_Issue_31_Nov_Dec_2015-Copy.pdf
In his newsletter +Sanborn was comparing degrees of culpability. Someone, like an employee who is forced to take the vax to save his job and feed a family, is less culpable in the evil than, say, Bill Gates who is using it to depopulate the planet. A similar situation might be the U.S. Government taking your money and using it to fund abortion oversees. No one on CathInfo would contribute to that but we can't control Joe Biden and what he does either. That, as far as I can remember, was the gist but it's been a while. I'm sure someone can dig that newsletter up somewhere.There was no observable pandemic, so anyone vaccinating is participating in a lie. I don't understand why this is was so complicated for the good bishop.
There was no observable pandemic…
I dispute that. Definitions matter.A pandemic is when people keel over in the street and people are crying "bring out your dead". The cemetaries weren't particulary busy in 2020.
An epidemic is "beyond the usual prevalence of the disease." A pandemic is "beyond the usual prevalence of the disease globally." COVID was indeed a global phenomenon beyond the usual prevalence of coronaviruses, so by definition was a pandemic.
For the overwhelming majority of people the disease was mild and medically inconsequential, but for a rough estimate of 15 million it was a catastrophe.
Though mostly medically inconsequential, it is inarguable that it was economically and politically a global catastrophe. That isn't what made COVID a pandemic, but does make it significant.
Michael Hoffman has powerful arguments as to how the Church decline started after usury stopped becoming a mortal sin and the Renaissance paganised the Vatican. Despite many holy popes and thousands of saintly priests, the Church has been retreating since the time of Saint Louis. In 1099 the Church called for a crusade to regain Jerusalem but there was never a crusade called to rescue England from the tyranny of Henry VIII, or France from the revolution. There are also no encyclicals against Jєωιѕн power since the middle ages. Is this because Popes are elected in the Sistine Chapel, decorated with obscene images such as Biagio da Cesena ( a critic of Michaelangelo ) displayed with his privated being devoured by a serpent.
...Feudalism also brings many problems. Just look at the easey with which the weak Visigothic monarchy collapsed in the face of the Moorish invasion of 711.
Something that I think is worth adding to what you've written is that the centralization of the civil power and the moving away from the feudal system, in my amateur view, did great harm to the power of the Church in the long run. This centralization eventually brought us to the situation of Absolutism, in which France produced that awful heresy of Gallicanism as a consequence. Kings started to care more about their own power than working together as Catholic brothers to preserve and grow Christendom. See for reference the alliance between Catholic France and the Mohammedan Ottoman Empire, constructed to counteract Catholic Austria!
The Revolution was not only a horrible Chastisement for the French King's refusal to consecrate his country to the Sacred Heart, but also it was a punishment on the French absolutist monarchs for placing the national interest of France above the interests of Christ and His Church.
So it was not just the fault of the Church hierarchy, but also that of the civil leaders of Catholic nations as well. As Aristotle observed, we get the leaders we deserve. It is said that St. John Eudes related that the worst punishment that God can send the faithful is a bad priest. So, I see God's hand in all of this, as I am sure you do as well.
A pandemic is when people keel over in the street and people are crying "bring out your dead". The cemetaries weren't particulary busy in 2020.What dictionary do you use? Whatever it is, I'd replace it. It not only gives wrong information, but also wrong spelling.
A pandemic is when people keel over in the street and people are crying "bring out your dead". The cemetaries weren't particulary busy in 2020.Look 'em up in a medical dictionary:
Since my recent brush with death I have been struggling thinking about "Trads" not as Catholics, but as the latest usurpers, the new "Chosenites."I had to reread this a time or two, and the "since" now registers. My first thought was that at the bitter end, you were thinking this. When that rocket or mortar round landed behind the latrine at 0530 in Baghdad while I was in a pinch, all I could think was ,"Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner!"
To be clear, in no way do I impugn Catholicism or the true Church, but only the most arrogant ersatz pontiffs among "Trads." In no way is this an endorsement of or submission to the Novus Ordo and its lineage of impostors "subsisting in" the Chair of Peter.
Cue the rage.
Feudalism also brings many problems. Just look at the easey with which the weak Visigothic monarchy collapsed in the face of the Moorish invasion of 711.Not to derail this thread, but I see your point that feudalism wasn't perfect either. I indicated this in my OP, but I appreciate the points you raised.
Or the fact that the Moors had control of the peninsula until the caliphate collapsed and fragmented into taifas. Or the fact that the Moors had control of the peninsula until the caliphate collapsed and fragmented into taifas. Once the caliphate is fragmented, the Christians quickly take over the majority of the peninsula.
Or that the opposition of many of the HRE principalities agains the emperor was one of the main causes of the rise of Protestantism.
In the Middle Ages, the betrayal of the Fourth Crusade took place, in which the Crusaders looted Constantinople, weakening the Byzantines and facilitating their fall at the hands of the Turks, which also happened in the Middle Ages.
Yes it's true, weak monarchies such as feudal monarchies has more difficulty to challenge the Church, but they also work worse.
Not to derail this thread, but I see your point that feudalism wasn't perfect either. I indicated this in my OP, but I appreciate the points you raised.
It seems that the ideal perhaps would be a blend of a centralized system and the feudal system, a system that is centralized to an extent but at the same time does not eliminate subsidiarity.…
I had to reread this a time or two, and the "since" now registers. My first thought was that at the bitter end, you were thinking this. When that rocket or mortar round landed behind the latrine at 0530 in Baghdad while I was in a pinch, all I could think was ,"Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner!"
Perhaps you do not understand my perspective on "since." Certainly "Nothing focuses a man's mind like impending death." Of course, the immediate spectre of death demands prompt reflection and contrition, but my post is not about that immediacy and urgency of contrition in the time near death. Too, current events parallel with a global "brush with death." It's bad 'out there.'
My post regards the things I have been thinking about "since" ("after") that immediacy, the aftermath, specifically:
"Why have myriads of 'Trads' usurped, arrogated to themselves, authority (and charisms) that we do not have?"
I do think that, as Drolo and St. Louis have hinted, that the apparent headlessness makes a vacuum, a void that more easily allows individuals (and individual leaders of sects/factions) to wander according to their/our various proclivities and conscupiscences.
Before my brushes with death I wondered about these problems. In the immediacy of the brushes, I properly had no time for abstract concerns about the world's problems. In the aftermath of this most recent brush, I have the luxury (Deo gratias!) of again pondering such abstract (?) concerns. Why are there so many little 'popes' leading in different directions?
Capisce?
Though it has little to do with my original post, my favorite prayer touches on your grenade anecdote.
Prayer of St. Augustine
Before Thy eyes, O Lord, we bring our offences, and we compare them with the stripes we have received.
If we consider the evil we have wrought, what we suffer is little, what we deserve is great.
What we have committed is very grave, what we have suffered is very slight.
We feel the punishment of sin, yet withdraw not from the obstinacy of sinning.
Under Thy lash our inconstancy is visited, but our sinfulness is not changed.
Our suffering soul is tormented but our neck is not bent.
Our life groans under sorrow, yet mends not in deed.
If Thou spare us we correct not our ways; if Thou punish we cannot endure it.
In time of correction we confess our wrong-doing; after Thy visitation we forget that we have wept.
If Thou stretchest forth Thy hand we promise amendment; if Thou withholdest the sword we keep not our promise.
If Thou strikest we cry out for mercy; if Thou sparest we again provoke Thee to strike.
Here we are before Thee, O Lord, shameless criminals; we know that unless Thou pardon we shall deservedly perish.
Grant then, O almighty Father, without our deserving it, the pardon we ask for; Thou who madest out of nothing those who ask Thee. Through Christ our Lord. Amen.
Let us pray
O God, who by sin art offended and by penance pacified, mercifully regard the prayers of Thy suppliant people, and turn away the scourges of Thy wrath, which we deserve for our sins. Through Christ our Lord. Amen.
Are our critics correct? Have we become ʝʊdɛօ-Protestants, every bonehead his/her own little pope, his/her own rabbi?I disagree with many, but I don't think so. Most of us are in good faith and attempting to be Catholic. I focus on the Marxist subversion over hammering out theological details. Most of the people commenting have never been trained and have no authority to solve disputes, so it is largely an exercise in futility. A lot of people fight over BoD, etc., but it is a waste of time without some means of authoritatively settling the question and we don't have that means.
I disagree with many, but I don't think so. Most of us are in good faith and attempting to be Catholic. I focus on the Marxist subversion over hammering out theological details. Most of the people commenting have never been trained and have no authority to solve disputes, so it is largely an exercise in futility. A lot of people fight over BoD, etc., but it is a waste of time without some means of authoritatively settling the question and we don't have that means.When I first discovered this forum I was a bit taken aback by all the heated arguments over BoD. If BoD is true it seems like it would affect an infinitesimal number of souls. In our time the Gospel has been preached all over the world so a thorny theological issue like BoD is hardly worth getting worked up over.
Marxism, on the other hand, has been authoritatively condemned and is what strangles the world all around us. Western and Eastern Marxism dominate and flow through every institution on either "side" for the purpose of Convergence. This "scientific" management of human affairs is, in my opinion, indisputable as an active force in modern societies, and its incompatibility with the Catholic Church led them to seek its destruction. Marxism is behind the UN, Great Reset, technocracy, etc.
Marxism (Judaism) must be destroyed if the Catholic Church will resurface. Marx delenda est. I call on everyone with the means to oppose Marxism wherever possible and expose their agenda to as many people who can still listen.
…Marx delenda est.…Rabbi Hess delenda est. :-) https://judaism.is/assets/moses-hess-the-zionist-who-founded-communism-hoffman.pdf
…capitalism is the better engine to orchestrate the erosion of sovereignty as we move into a corporate oligarchy or technocracy. At least Klaus Schwabe and his ilk think so.
Perhaps you do not understand my perspective on "since." Certainly "Nothing focuses a man's mind like impending death." Of course, the immediate spectre of death demands prompt reflection and contrition, but my post is not about that immediacy and urgency of contrition in the time near death. Too, current events parallel with a global "brush with death." It's bad 'out there.'Trust me, I definitely get it. The "since" definitely registered with me. I was just reminiscing about one event of many when I thought I was at my bitter end and relating it to my initial thought upon first reading your post. The Lord, Jesus Christ, has definitely had mercy on me.
My post regards the things I have been thinking about "since" ("after") that immediacy, the aftermath, specifically:
"Why have myriads of 'Trads' usurped, arrogated to themselves, authority (and charisms) that we do not have?"
I do think that, as Drolo and St. Louis have hinted, that the apparent headlessness makes a vacuum, a void that more easily allows individuals (and individual leaders of sects/factions) to wander according to their/our various proclivities and conscupiscences.
Before my brushes with death I wondered about these problems. In the immediacy of the brushes, I properly had no time for abstract concerns about the world's problems. In the aftermath of this most recent brush, I have the luxury (Deo gratias!) of again pondering such abstract (?) concerns. Why are there so many little 'popes' leading in different directions?
Capisce?
Though it has little to do with my original post, my favorite prayer touches on your grenade anecdote.
Prayer of St. Augustine
Before Thy eyes, O Lord, we bring our offences, and we compare them with the stripes we have received.
If we consider the evil we have wrought, what we suffer is little, what we deserve is great.
What we have committed is very grave, what we have suffered is very slight.
We feel the punishment of sin, yet withdraw not from the obstinacy of sinning.
Under Thy lash our inconstancy is visited, but our sinfulness is not changed.
Our suffering soul is tormented but our neck is not bent.
Our life groans under sorrow, yet mends not in deed.
If Thou spare us we correct not our ways; if Thou punish we cannot endure it.
In time of correction we confess our wrong-doing; after Thy visitation we forget that we have wept.
If Thou stretchest forth Thy hand we promise amendment; if Thou withholdest the sword we keep not our promise.
If Thou strikest we cry out for mercy; if Thou sparest we again provoke Thee to strike.
Here we are before Thee, O Lord, shameless criminals; we know that unless Thou pardon we shall deservedly perish.
Grant then, O almighty Father, without our deserving it, the pardon we ask for; Thou who madest out of nothing those who ask Thee. Through Christ our Lord. Amen.
Let us pray
O God, who by sin art offended and by penance pacified, mercifully regard the prayers of Thy suppliant people, and turn away the scourges of Thy wrath, which we deserve for our sins. Through Christ our Lord. Amen.