Thank you for this posting. I have found it very interesting.
Here are some thoughts on this audio posting:
I could not accuse Fr. Feeney of heresy. Fr. Feeney seems to have believed that God may anticipate baptism by justification. The council of Trent clearly says that desire is a necessary condition but the instrumental cause is the sacrament of baptism (Ch 7 on justification) Also Chapter 4 makes it clear that without baptism or the desire (for adults) there is no justification. This more conservative view is in line with the thinking of the Church fathers.
Malone’s exaggeration of the word ALL for cases of raising from the dead may be replaced with ALMOST ALL which is a reason to oppose BOD/BOB.
Did God from all eternity plan Jesus being baptized? Yes. Our Lord may not have had to be he being THE EXEMPLAR shows us first what is to be done. He so associates himself with his mystical body that he said the Pater Noster, which contains “forgive us our trespasses” This is why we say the Pater in the plural. We say it with Jesus in the Power of the HG to the Father. It is true this baptism was not a sacrament however it was to signify the baptism Jesus brought.
St. Thomas says: P3, Q35, Art.1
I answer that, It was fitting for John to baptize, for four reasons: first, it was necessary for Christ to be baptized by John, in order that He might sanctify baptism; as Augustine observes, super Joan. (Tract. xiii in Joan.).
Secondly, that Christ might be manifested. Whence John himself says (John 1:31): "That He," i.e. Christ, "may be made manifest in Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water." For he announced Christ to the crowds that gathered around him; which was thus done much more easily than if he had gone in search of each individual, as Chrysostom observes, commenting on St. John (Hom. x in Matth.).
Thirdly, that by his baptism he might accustom men to the baptism of Christ; wherefore Gregory says in a homily (Hom. vii in Evang.) that therefore did John baptize, "that, being consistent with his office of precursor, as he had preceded our Lord in birth, so he might also by baptizing precede Him who was about to baptize."
Fourthly, that by persuading men to do penance, he might prepare men to receive worthily the baptism of Christ. Wherefore Bede [Cf. Scot. Erig. in Joan. iii, 24] says that "the baptism of John was as profitable before the baptism of Christ, as instruction in the faith profits the catechumens not yet baptized. For just as he preached penance, and foretold the baptism of Christ, and drew men to the knowledge of the Truth that hath appeared to the world, so do the ministers of the Church, after instructing men, chide them for their sins, and lastly promise them forgiveness in the baptism of Christ."
St. Gregory of Nyssa tells us that Christ’s baptism was to be this exemplar and bring down the HG.
“Christ, then, was born as it were a few days ago— He Whose generation was before all things, sensible and intellectual. Today He is baptized by John that He might cleanse him who was defiled, that He might bring the Spirit from above, and exalt man to heaven, that he who had fallen might be raised up and he who had cast him down might be put to shame. And marvel not if God showed so great earnestness in our cause: for it was with care on the part of him who did us wrong that the plot was laid against us; it is with forethought on the part of our Maker that we are saved. And he, that evil charmer, framing his new device of sin against our race, drew along his serpent train, a disguise worthy of his own intent, entering in his impurity into what was like himself—dwelling, earthly and mundane as he was in will, in that creeping thing. But Christ, the repairer of his evil-doing, assumes manhood in its fullness, and saves man, and becomes the type and figure of us all, to sanctify the first-fruits of every action, and leave to His servants no doubt in their zeal for the tradition. Baptism, then, is a purification from sins, a remission of trespasses, a cause of renovation and regeneration. By regeneration, understand regeneration conceived in thought, not discerned by bodily sight.”
Mr Malone claims that being justified (in a state of grace) is not enough to enable one to go to Heaven, that one has to be baptised as well. Doesn't possessing sanctifying grace presuppose having been baptised? If one dies in the state of grace, one is saved.
Regarding the incident where St. Peter Claver brought back to life a Negress who had just died: Mr. Malone seems to claim that the saint stopped hearing her confession because there was no need to do so. The speaker thinks she was justified already. However, to be eligible for the Sacrament of Penance, one has to have already been baptised. Baptism is the gateway for reception of the other sacraments. When he learned that the woman had not even been baptised, St. Peter knew he could not hear her confession, and thereupon baptised her. As Baptism remits sin and the punishment due to sin, there was no need for her to go to Confession.
Mr. Malone claims that in all cases of miraculous resurrections, those brought back from the dead were restored to life so they could be baptised. This is not so. St. Stanisław of Kraków, the Patron Saint of Poland, restored to life an already baptised man so that he could testify in a legal case in favour of the saint.
The speaker appears to indicate that Our Lord had to be baptised. Being without sin, He did not have to. In any case, St. John the Baptist's rite was not of sacramental character, it did not make one an heir of Heaven and a child of God. It couldn't save anyone.
Mr. Malone, now deceased, was a victim of the great Apostasy
Topic: The necessity of water baptism for salvation by Michael Malone free MP3 (Read 2544 times)