Author Topic: The Midwife of Vatican II (Read 23188 times)

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #1 on:** October 09, 2009, 08:58:24 PM »

I have no reason to doubt that there were MANY problems during Pius XII's reign, some of which were his own doing.

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #2 on:** October 09, 2009, 09:03:28 PM »

That bit about the nuclear bomb being a contribution to the cause of peace is, well, INSANE.

SJB · « **Reply #3 on:** October 09, 2009, 10:51:10 PM »

Quote from: Raoul76

Does anyone get how BIG this NFP disaster is? Have you read about how widespread it has become within Novus Ordo parishes? And don't tell me that they have gone too far with it while among sedevacantists it's okay for "grave reasons" -- anyone can come up with grave reasons, if given the excuse to do so.

This is a little rash isn't it? You haven't even made any distinction between a grave reason and no reason. You assume that one LEADS to the other. That is really stupid.

roscoe · « **Reply #4 on:** October 10, 2009, 12:49:51 AM »

Pius XII never said that the Nuc Bomb was a contribution to the cause of peace.

roscoe · « **Reply #5 on:** October 10, 2009, 12:55:51 AM »

The cause of the reduction in the # people of European heritage is hardly NFP. This is just another BoD waster of time.

roscoe · « **Reply #6 on:** October 10, 2009, 01:04:21 AM »

Re: UN-- Even Pius X was deceived into supporting League of Nations as an alleged peace org. Pope Pacelli gets eldely but he exiles Montini and yes is deceived by Spellman, Bea and others but I am sticking to my theory that Pius XI(XII) and XII(XIII) are True Popes who have been handed a sinking ship after 1922.

roscoe · « **Reply #7 on:** October 10, 2009, 01:10:40 AM »

I wonder how Raoul feels about NFP for Africans? I do not agree with the hysteria that a couple that may resort to NFP is more likely to abort a child-- I would say the opposite.

SJB · « **Reply #8 on:** October 10, 2009, 09:05:58 AM »

Quote from: Catholic Martyr

Quote from: Antipope Pius XII
Serious motives, such as those which not rarely arise from medical, eugenic, economic and social so-called "indications," may exempt husband and wife from the obligatory, positive debt for a long period or even for the entire period of matrimonial life. From this it follows that the observance of the natural sterile periods may be lawful, from the moral viewpoint: and it is lawful in the conditions mentioned.

SJB, please enlighten me on what "serious motives" could exist to lawfully enable a couple to observe the sterile periods "for the entire period of matrimonial life", since the "good pope" did not elaborate on this most important point.

Why would you want me to elaborate on detailed situations. We are discussing the principle here.

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I, for one, believe there are no such "serious motives"

Your opinion is not surprising to me.

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and that these motives always come back to lust and/or lack of Faith in Divine Providence.

Even if they don't have anything to do with lust or a real lack of Faith in Divine Providence?

The Novus Ordo establishment TEACHES NFP as an alternative to ABC. This completely dismisses any serious conditions being present. Do you deny this?

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #9 on:** October 10, 2009, 12:50:24 PM »

Quote from: roscoe

Pius X was deceived into supporting League of Nations as an alleged peace org.

1914: Pius X dies.
1918: WWI ends.
1919-1920: League of Nations founded.

roscoe · « **Reply #10 on:** October 10, 2009, 01:39:25 PM »

My apologies as I am confusing the Carnagie Int Endowment for 'Peace' with the UN but It is basically the same thing anyway.

I would like a citation as to where originates the allegation that Pius XII thought the Nuc Bomb contributed to the cause of peace.

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #11 on:** October 10, 2009, 01:41:50 PM »

Raoul76 · « **Reply #12 on:** October 10, 2009, 04:58:19 PM »

Raoul76 · « **Reply #13 on:** October 10, 2009, 05:18:39 PM »

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"Thus the Father of His Country and the pioneer pastor of the Church in that land so dear to Us, bound together by the ties of friendship and clasping, so to speak, each the other's hand..."

This makes me think of a Freemasonic handshake, the Church sucked into the aims of Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ. The wording is peculiar, that's for sure. "... clasping, so to speak, each the other's hand..."?

It's like in the NFP Allocution to Midwifes, when he talks about "so-called 'indications'" in quotes. This is all vague gobbeldygook that is only slightly more orthodox-sounding than the sloppy, impenetrably diffuse verbal ecstasies of Ratzinger.

I can't resist one more, from the 1953 On Psychotherapy and Religion. He probably wasn't a Pope by this time.

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"Even if there were question of a dynamism involving all men, peoples, epochs, and cultures, what an invaluable help this would be for the search after God and the affirmation of His existence!"

This isn't quite as bad in context as it sounds out of context. The general tone is that he hopes that science will DEEPEN our knowledge of God, not replace it. But it's still bad and smacks of a cautious Teilhardism, slipped in, once again, among mostly orthodox statements. We do not need to "search" for God nor do we need to affirm His existence, which is a fact. He came and was crucified on the Cross. Does knowing about an extra planet somewhere make us marvel any more at God's creation than a simple glance at the heavens can make us marvel?

And has science really deepened anyone's faith? Come on! It's nothing but Jєωs like Sagan and Einstein telling us that we are insignificant specks in an ever-expanding universe -- Nietzschean existentialism meets pothead sci-fi -- or Darwin saying that we were formerly monkeys. Yeah, this was a real aid to faith, it really helped a lot of people affirm the existence of God.

roscoe · « **Reply #14 on:** October 10, 2009, 06:55:21 PM »