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Author Topic: The Maronite liturgy?  (Read 6580 times)

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Offline DigitalLogos

Re: The Maronite liturgy?
« Reply #40 on: March 11, 2023, 08:48:39 AM »
Quote from: confederate catholic on March 11, 2023, 12:56:35 AM
Also Ladislas
Mitch pacwa is originally Maronite, not Latin, pretty sure he never transferred to the Latin rite even as a Jesuit, not all Jesuits change rites
I'm not finding any information that corresponds to this claim, only that he was ordained in the Society of Jesus in 1976. Unless someone has a different source for this, to me it sounds like he was ordained in the New Rite (which isn't problematic if it was done by a bishop from the Old Rite, given the time frame)
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Offline 2Vermont

Re: The Maronite liturgy?
« Reply #41 on: March 11, 2023, 08:51:23 AM »
Quote from: DigitalLogos on March 11, 2023, 08:48:39 AM
I'm not finding any information that corresponds to this claim, only that he was ordained in the Society of Jesus in 1976. Unless someone has a different source for this, to me it sounds like he was ordained in the New Rite (which isn't problematic if it was done by a bishop from the Old Rite, given the time frame)
So are you now of the opinion that the NO Ordinations are certainly valid (and not at least doubtful)?
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Offline DigitalLogos

Re: The Maronite liturgy?
« Reply #42 on: March 11, 2023, 09:03:17 AM »
Quote from: 2Vermont on March 11, 2023, 08:51:23 AM
So are you now of the opinion that the NO Ordinations are certainly valid (and not at least doubtful)?
Well, the question with those ordinations is the intent is it not? As the prayer used is virtually the same. The act taken by a legitimate bishop (see: OLD RITE) to ordain a priest would mean the intent is good and could be valid. The real question lies with the Episcopal orders , yes?

And looking at the bishop of Detroit at that time, assuming he was ordained by the bishop there, not someone else, means it is likely an invalid ordination given that the bishop has doubtful Orders.
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Offline 2Vermont

Re: The Maronite liturgy?
« Reply #43 on: March 11, 2023, 09:10:35 AM »
Quote from: DigitalLogos on March 11, 2023, 09:03:17 AM
Well, the question with those ordinations is the intent is it not? As the prayer used is virtually the same. The act taken by a legitimate bishop (see: OLD RITE) to ordain a priest would mean the intent is good and could be valid. The real question lies with the Episcopal orders , yes?
Intent?  "Virtually the same"?  You mean like the SSPX seems to believe? 

Are you even keeping up with the thread you started on the "validity of the NO"? 

The issue is the form and "virtually the same" is not "the same".  How is the new form of the ordination rite not at least doubtful given the changes also made to the NREC? 

And you didn't answer my question:  do you now believe the New Rite of Ordination is certainly valid?
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Offline DigitalLogos

Re: The Maronite liturgy?
« Reply #44 on: March 11, 2023, 09:11:39 AM »
Quote from: 2Vermont on March 11, 2023, 09:10:35 AM
And you didn't answer my question:  do you now believe the New Rite of Ordination is certainly valid?
No. And I tire of your witch hunt. You DM me basically trying to check my sedevacantist purity for opening a discussion on the matter and now you're pushing that I CERTANLY believe such a thing.

I don’t know with certainty. YOU don't know with certainty. NO ONE BUT GOD KNOWS WITH CERTAINTY
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