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Author Topic: The Maronite liturgy?  (Read 5024 times)

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Offline DigitalLogos

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Re: The Maronite liturgy?
« Reply #30 on: March 08, 2023, 05:55:05 PM »
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  • My uncle and Godfather received Last Rites from a Maronite priest when my aunt searched high and low for a priest from her own (Roman rite) parish and diocese.  Literally nobody would come and he was dying.  He was requesting a priest whenever he was lucid.  A neighbor from a few blocks away came over with a few pieces of mail inadvertently sent to his home, (last names were similar and they had similar street addresses). She and her husband were from Lebanon and went to a small Maronite Church that got going in the mid-1980’s.  The priest was more than willing.  My uncle went to confession, received Communion, fell asleep and died that night in his sleep. 
    Blessed be God!
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: The Maronite liturgy?
    « Reply #31 on: March 09, 2023, 05:09:55 PM »
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  • What masses do you have access to now?


    Offline Cornelius

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    Re: The Maronite liturgy?
    « Reply #32 on: March 10, 2023, 08:11:39 AM »
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  • My uncle and Godfather received Last Rites from a Maronite priest when my aunt searched high and low for a priest from her own (Roman rite) parish and diocese.  Literally nobody would come and he was dying.  He was requesting a priest whenever he was lucid.  A neighbor from a few blocks away came over with a few pieces of mail inadvertently sent to his home, (last names were similar and they had similar street addresses). She and her husband were from Lebanon and went to a small Maronite Church that got going in the mid-1980’s.  The priest was more than willing.  My uncle went to confession, received Communion, fell asleep and died that night in his sleep. 

    Did they at least tell you why none would come?
    One day at a time.

    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: The Maronite liturgy?
    « Reply #33 on: March 10, 2023, 05:18:20 PM »
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  • What masses do you have access to now?
    Here in Wisconsin I've been going to an SSPX chapel 35 minutes away for two years. This weekend me and my son are going to check out St. George Melkite Byzantine Church in Milwaukee on our way to have a boy's day. Otherwise, everything else, including two sede chapels and Byzantine churches are over 2 hours.

    In North Carolina, its a wasteland, truly. Nearest SSPX chapels are close to two hours from where we will be looking to live. A Byzantine church anywhere from 45 minutes to an hour 1/2, depending on where we get a house; and then the one sede chapel you suggested would be 4 1/2 hours. The Maronite Church would remain within 20 minutes to an hour, again, depending on where we get a house.
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline Cornelius

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    Re: The Maronite liturgy?
    « Reply #34 on: March 10, 2023, 08:07:49 PM »
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  • Here in Wisconsin I've been going to an SSPX chapel 35 minutes away for two years. This weekend me and my son are going to check out St. George Melkite Byzantine Church in Milwaukee on our way to have a boy's day. Otherwise, everything else, including two sede chapels and Byzantine churches are over 2 hours.

    In North Carolina, its a wasteland, truly. Nearest SSPX chapels are close to two hours from where we will be looking to live. A Byzantine church anywhere from 45 minutes to an hour 1/2, depending on where we get a house; and then the one sede chapel you suggested would be 4 1/2 hours. The Maronite Church would remain within 20 minutes to an hour, again, depending on where we get a house.

    Why on earth would you move from Wisconsin to the NC?? Idk why anybody would move to the Coasts if they had a choice, discounting Alaska, of course.
    One day at a time.


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: The Maronite liturgy?
    « Reply #35 on: March 10, 2023, 08:10:05 PM »
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  • Here in Wisconsin I've been going to an SSPX chapel 35 minutes away for two years. This weekend me and my son are going to check out St. George Melkite Byzantine Church in Milwaukee on our way to have a boy's day. Otherwise, everything else, including two sede chapels and Byzantine churches are over 2 hours.

    In North Carolina, its a wasteland, truly. Nearest SSPX chapels are close to two hours from where we will be looking to live. A Byzantine church anywhere from 45 minutes to an hour 1/2, depending on where we get a house; and then the one sede chapel you suggested would be 4 1/2 hours. The Maronite Church would remain within 20 minutes to an hour, again, depending on where we get a house.
    Nah.  I'm pretty sure I've got you beat in Vermont.  Hence our monthly trips to a sede mass 4+hours away. 

    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: The Maronite liturgy?
    « Reply #36 on: March 10, 2023, 08:28:56 PM »
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  • Nah.  I'm pretty sure I've got you beat in Vermont.  Hence our monthly trips to a sede mass 4+hours away.
    You sure do. I had to take a look on Google maps and it's more of a desert there than here or NC!

    Why on earth would you move from Wisconsin to the NC?? Idk why anybody would move to the Coasts if they had a choice, discounting Alaska, of course.
    Climate, we like the area, I have a job there, my wife's parents are moving there, her brother and sister-in-law live there, even my parents will be moving down there once my dad is better. Plenty of reasons, really.
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline confederate catholic

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    Re: The Maronite liturgy?
    « Reply #37 on: March 11, 2023, 12:56:35 AM »
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  • Quote
    Ordained by Bp. John George Chedid, consecrated by Nasrallah Boutros Cardinal Sfeir, all Melkite, so the orders are good.
    They're Maronite not melkite Sfeir is the last Maronite patriarch



    Also Ladislas
    Mitch pacwa is originally Maronite, not Latin, pretty sure he never transferred to the Latin rite even as a Jesuit, not all Jesuits change rites 
    قامت مريم، ترتيل وفاء جحا و سلام جحا


    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: The Maronite liturgy?
    « Reply #38 on: March 11, 2023, 07:30:39 AM »
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  • They're Maronite not melkite Sfeir is the last Maronite patriarch
    Whoops, my bad :facepalm:

    Also Ladislas
    Mitch pacwa is originally Maronite, not Latin, pretty sure he never transferred to the Latin rite even as a Jesuit, not all Jesuits change rites
    Who was he ordained by?
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline Cornelius

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    Re: The Maronite liturgy?
    « Reply #39 on: March 11, 2023, 08:32:29 AM »
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  • Climate, we like the area, I have a job there, my wife's parents are moving there, her brother and sister-in-law live there, even my parents will be moving down there once my dad is better. Plenty of reasons, really.

    I guess. If I could afford it I would be back up in Alaska and say goodbye to the lower 48 for good. 
    One day at a time.

    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: The Maronite liturgy?
    « Reply #40 on: March 11, 2023, 08:48:39 AM »
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  • Also Ladislas
    Mitch pacwa is originally Maronite, not Latin, pretty sure he never transferred to the Latin rite even as a Jesuit, not all Jesuits change rites
    I'm not finding any information that corresponds to this claim, only that he was ordained in the Society of Jesus in 1976. Unless someone has a different source for this, to me it sounds like he was ordained in the New Rite (which isn't problematic if it was done by a bishop from the Old Rite, given the time frame)
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: The Maronite liturgy?
    « Reply #41 on: March 11, 2023, 08:51:23 AM »
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  • I'm not finding any information that corresponds to this claim, only that he was ordained in the Society of Jesus in 1976. Unless someone has a different source for this, to me it sounds like he was ordained in the New Rite (which isn't problematic if it was done by a bishop from the Old Rite, given the time frame)
    So are you now of the opinion that the NO Ordinations are certainly valid (and not at least doubtful)?

    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: The Maronite liturgy?
    « Reply #42 on: March 11, 2023, 09:03:17 AM »
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  • So are you now of the opinion that the NO Ordinations are certainly valid (and not at least doubtful)?
    Well, the question with those ordinations is the intent is it not? As the prayer used is virtually the same. The act taken by a legitimate bishop (see: OLD RITE) to ordain a priest would mean the intent is good and could be valid. The real question lies with the Episcopal orders , yes?

    And looking at the bishop of Detroit at that time, assuming he was ordained by the bishop there, not someone else, means it is likely an invalid ordination given that the bishop has doubtful Orders.
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: The Maronite liturgy?
    « Reply #43 on: March 11, 2023, 09:10:35 AM »
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  • Well, the question with those ordinations is the intent is it not? As the prayer used is virtually the same. The act taken by a legitimate bishop (see: OLD RITE) to ordain a priest would mean the intent is good and could be valid. The real question lies with the Episcopal orders , yes?
    Intent?  "Virtually the same"?  You mean like the SSPX seems to believe? 

    Are you even keeping up with the thread you started on the "validity of the NO"? 

    The issue is the form and "virtually the same" is not "the same".  How is the new form of the ordination rite not at least doubtful given the changes also made to the NREC? 

    And you didn't answer my question:  do you now believe the New Rite of Ordination is certainly valid?

    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: The Maronite liturgy?
    « Reply #44 on: March 11, 2023, 09:11:39 AM »
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  • And you didn't answer my question:  do you now believe the New Rite of Ordination is certainly valid?
    No. And I tire of your witch hunt. You DM me basically trying to check my sedevacantist purity for opening a discussion on the matter and now you're pushing that I CERTANLY believe such a thing.

    I don’t know with certainty. YOU don't know with certainty. NO ONE BUT GOD KNOWS WITH CERTAINTY
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]