Author Topic: The last straw (Read 6116 times)

Prodinoscopus · « **on:** June 13, 2009, 08:12:24 PM »

Like a boxer pinned against the ropes, I've been defending my belly (my belief in the juridical legitimacy of the current Pope) from an indefensible position. Now an SSPX analysis of Benedict XVI's interreligious agenda in the Holy Land last May has led me to the text of the Pope's remarks during his flight back to Rome.

The heresy speaks for itself:

Quote

There are three fundamental impressions: the first is that I found everywhere, in every context, Muslim, Christian and Jєωιѕн, a determined readiness for interreligious dialogue, for encounter and collaboration among the religions. And it is important that everyone see this not only as an action let us say inspired by political motives in the given situation but as a fruit of the very core of faith. Because believing in one God who has created us all, the Father of us all, believing in this God who created humanity as a family, believing that God is love and wants love to be the dominant force in the world, implies this encounter, this need for an encounter, for dialogue, for collaboration as a requirement of faith itself.

Not only does Ratzinger again reiterate the heresy that Christians, Muslims, and Jєωs worship the same God, he goes on to assert that collaboration between Catholics and infidels is a fruit and requirement of faith -- even the very core of faith.

DeMaistre, it didn't take a month. This is the last straw.

How will I deal with this revelation at a practical level? God only knows. This forum will be an assistance as I work things out. Please pray for me.

DeMaistre · « **Reply #1 on:** June 13, 2009, 08:45:05 PM »

First of all, I should probably remind you that this forum is not a sedevacantist forum, and undoubtedly many members will disapprove of your choice.

Second, even though I support sede-vacantism, I do not recommend that you rush headlong to quickly into this. Take it slowly. Pray often. I know that many members will disapprove of this, but I recommend that you look around Most Holy Family Monastery's website, and maybe give them an email or a phone call.

Quote

How will I deal with this revelation at a practical level?

It greatly depends on your state in life. If you're married, then it might be problematic. If you are still discerning your vocation, then you will know how this effects you. I'm still a minor, so I can't really do anything until I graduate high school.

Well, I was right wasn't I? :wink:

trent13 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 13, 2009, 08:53:28 PM »

I think for Wojytla (sp?) the doctrine of the Church came secondary to his desire for world peace. For Ratzinger I think doctrine comes secondary to personal explorations in the philosophy of religion or belief.... I'm probably not expressing myself very well. But knowing that they were educated in the doctrines of the faith and that they, as the apparent head of the Church, have publicly cast them aside for a mantra of free love and brotherhood, well, that is enough for me. Arguably Ratzinger is worse b/c he ostensibly wants a change towards traditionm, but in truth, and his teachings show it (like how, during his Middle East tour he said that we should no longer try to convert the Jєωs for they are legitimately still waiting for their messiah), he is a heretic.

I will pray for you. The revelation is something that can often have long-reaching ramifications on our material existence.

DeMaistre · « **Reply #3 on:** June 13, 2009, 08:56:46 PM »

There are some good audios here:

http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/archived_radio_programs.php

http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/Traditional_Catholic_Audios.php

parentsfortruth · « **Reply #4 on:** June 13, 2009, 09:49:34 PM »

I would check out http://gerrymatatics.com as well. I just listened to him when he came to my town, and I have to say, he's eloquent, and has a very compelling argument. And, he was receptive to the stuff I had presented to him, also. He doesn't pronounce judgment on anyone, simply tells them to look up the material themselves, and confirm what he's saying is correct.

That kind of attitude will get people to listen, better than people that simply dismiss people as heretics and schismatics for believing something other than what they present.

That's why I'm not impressed by the Diamond Brothers. They're speaking as if they have some type of authority. I really like some of their critiques, especially on vatican ii, but they're too judgmental, especially on Gregory XVII. They don't have all the facts, yet they depose him and claim sede vacant. We don't know for sure, and that has to be admitted by everyone in order to be truly honest.

Caminus · « **Reply #5 on:** June 14, 2009, 01:31:33 AM »

Quote

There are three fundamental impressions: the first is that I found everywhere, in every context, Muslim, Christian and Jєωιѕн, a determined readiness for interreligious dialogue, for encounter and collaboration among the religions. And it is important that everyone see this not only as an action let us say inspired by political motives in the given situation but as a fruit of the very core of faith. Because believing in one God who has created us all, the Father of us all, believing in this God who created humanity as a family, believing that God is love and wants love to be the dominant force in the world, implies this encounter, this need for an encounter, for dialogue, for collaboration as a requirement of faith itself.

This is knee-jerk reaction, not reasoned deduction. Why do you feel the need to make such a judgment? I just don't understand the compulsion.

Equivocating on the word 'faith' and referring to a philosophical belief in God doesn't amount to canonical heresy. He's just mixing up the natural and supernatural orders like all the nouvelle theologians do. It has an aspect of modernism with regard to other religions, which is nothing other than liberalism. It makes him an enemy of the Church, but according to Pius X, the problem is that these enemies are within the Church and retain their positions.

CM · « **Reply #6 on:** June 14, 2009, 03:07:08 AM »

Ignore Caminus, whose assertions are false. Let's see him back them up with a quotation, so that we can all see how his understanding of the situation is completely out of context.

Most Holy Family Monastery is a very very dangerous site. You'll wind up believing heresies you don't already if you go there. Don't do it.

Prodinoscopus, will you please read this section of my blog, Crisis: The counterfeit 'Catholic Church', and this one, What must you do to get to heaven?

Prodinoscopus · « **Reply #7 on:** June 14, 2009, 08:10:25 AM »

Quote from: Catholic Martyr

Prodinoscopus, will you please read this section of my blog, Crisis: The counterfeit 'Catholic Church', and this one, What must you do to get to heaven?

I will.

DeMaistre · « **Reply #8 on:** June 14, 2009, 08:41:09 AM »

As I said, don't rush to quickly into this. You'll end up losing your faith in Catholic Tradition and revert to the FSSPX, FSSP, or maybe even the New Church.

Dawn · « **Reply #9 on:** June 14, 2009, 09:04:08 AM »

You can not hold a position of anything in the Church if you are an apostate. Prodino, take it slowly. Most of us have been where you are, though some have been blessed to recognize this truth of the state of the Church right away. For the rest of us, it requires reading, reading and more reading. Pray that God leads to the Truth. And, might I also add to the list of material the websites Christ or Chaoshttp://www.christorchaos.com/ and Daily Catholic
http://www.dailycatholic.org/

DeMaistre · « **Reply #10 on:** June 14, 2009, 09:09:26 AM »

To be honest, I'm a bit in his position as well. I can't really do anything since I still live at home.

DeMaistre · « **Reply #11 on:** June 14, 2009, 09:13:26 AM »

Well, Prodinoscopus, you and I are back to square one aren't we? I just realized the truth of what is really happening today a few weeks ago. I don't know exactly, but when school ended...oh a month or so back, I wasn't a "sede" but I am now.

I have no idea what to do really. I've had no valid sacraments (baptism excluded), no real Mass, no real priests, nothing. And I'm stuck in this position for the next three years.

Caminus · « **Reply #12 on:** June 14, 2009, 09:52:31 AM »

Quote from: Prodinoscopus

Quote from: Catholic Martyr
Prodinoscopus, will you please read this section of my blog, Crisis: The counterfeit 'Catholic Church', and this one, What must you do to get to heaven?

I will.

You're gonna take direction from a man who doesn't think anyone is catholic except himself and apparently he's not even sure about that? Have you lost your mind man? He's worse than a modernist, yet you grant him benign treatement, nay you'll give ear to the counsel of his forked tongue? I don't get you people.

Prodinoscopus · « **Reply #13 on:** June 14, 2009, 11:18:21 AM »

Calm down, Caminus. I assured Catholic Martyr that I would read his blog postings, nothing more.

Catholic Martyr -- I have a question for you. Do you believe that there have been other anti-popes prior to Benedict XV? I'm not talking about rival claimants to the chair. I'm talking about individual Popes who have been historically accepted as legitimate. For instance, do you believe that Liberius was an anti-pope?

Quote from: DeMaistre

I have no idea what to do really.

That makes two of us.

For anyone who cares to know, I'm 48, married with kids, I've been a Catholic for just over 25 years, and I attend a Novus Ordo parish (inwardly resisting everything that happens in the liturgy except the words of consecration). My wife wants nothing to do with the Traditional Mass or anything associated with it. My situation is complicated, to say the least. I've made many compromises with the devil over the years, and because of my weakness will probably continue to do so. I'm in no position to judge anyone, and I consider the affair of my own salvation to be uncertain in the extreme.

Before anyone asks why I don't attend a Traditional Mass if it is available in my area (which it is), I have my reasons and do not intend to discuss them here. Suffice to say that if I was a better Catholic and a stronger man, I would be attending the Traditional Mass with my family and living a truly Catholic life. Unfortunately, I'm a lousy Catholic and a weak man. There you have it. In the words of Forrest Gump, that's all that I have to say about that.

Dawn · « **Reply #14 on:** June 14, 2009, 01:42:26 PM »

I too am 48 - 49 in November. And, I well know that it is a difficult situtation with a spouse and children. And, even though I knew that the Novus Ordo was rot, we attended for several years (I just kept my mouth closed and did not accept the false communion).And, I prayed. My family has finally found a good priest who is willing to do the work to straighten out the problems in my family. Invalid Sacraments for one.