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Author Topic: The Last Necessary Ecuмenical Council  (Read 66414 times)

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Offline JeanBaptistedeCouetus

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Re: The Last Necessary Ecuмenical Council
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2025, 07:19:50 PM »
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    • Quote from: IndultCat on November 19, 2025, 06:51:13 PM
    That would be wonderful! Sadly, it was never "truly" finished. To "truly" finish Vatican I by "officially" condemning the most pernicious error post-Trent that is Marxism/Communism (along with condemning many other errors) would be a gigantic step in the right direction to permanently solving this crisis in the Church!
    It was condemned by a few Pope's.
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    Offline JoeZ

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    Re: The Last Necessary Ecuмenical Council
    « Reply #16 on: November 19, 2025, 07:59:25 PM »
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    • If Vatican 1 was not finished, did Pius IX or Leo XIII publish an approval of the Bulls that it produced? I can't find any.
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    Offline IndultCat

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    Re: The Last Necessary Ecuмenical Council
    « Reply #17 on: November 19, 2025, 08:13:39 PM »
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    • Quote from: JeanBaptistedeCouetus on November 19, 2025, 07:19:50 PM
    It was condemned by a few Pope's.
    Yes but it was not "formally" condemned at any Ecuмenical Council when it should have been because it isn't only an error but the most pernicious error post-Trent.  
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    Online St Giles

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    Re: The Last Necessary Ecuмenical Council
    « Reply #18 on: November 19, 2025, 08:29:05 PM »
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    • Quote from: IndultCat on November 19, 2025, 04:01:42 PM
    And can anyone truly give a good reason why all of the popes from Pius IX through Pius XII did not "finish" the Vatican I Council to condemn the most pernicious error post-Trent? Failure to do so resulted in "false pope" John XXIII using the failure to "finish" Vatican I for over 80 years as an excuse to call a "Second Vatican Council."

    Human beings suck at doing things right, and God's work is perfect even if we don't understand it.
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    Offline IndultCat

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    Re: The Last Necessary Ecuмenical Council
    « Reply #19 on: November 19, 2025, 08:45:57 PM »
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    • Quote from: St Giles on November 19, 2025, 08:29:05 PM
    Human beings suck at doing things right, and God's work is perfect even if we don't understand it.
    I hope you are not insinuating that legitimate popes "suck at doing things right." If so, your response is an example of why no one can truly give a good reason why the popes from Pius IX through Pius XII did not finish the First Vatican Council. There is no good reason for these popes not to have finished the Council and we are all suffering with a terrible Church crisis as a result of it.
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    Online St Giles

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    Re: The Last Necessary Ecuмenical Council
    « Reply #20 on: November 19, 2025, 11:13:40 PM »
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    • Is there any good reason why human beings in any position fail at some things?

    I wasn't there, I wasn't them, I can't judge why they did what they did, but the fact they are human should explain some of it. I can only imagine how busy it is to be Pope, and They had a lot going on.

    Maybe someday, by some miracle, you get elected pope and can show us and St. Pius X how it's done.
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    Offline Freind

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    Re: The Last Necessary Ecuмenical Council
    « Reply #21 on: November 23, 2025, 06:30:48 PM »
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    • Quote from: IndultCat on November 19, 2025, 08:45:57 PM
    I hope you are not insinuating that legitimate popes "suck at doing things right." If so, your response is an example of why no one can truly give a good reason why the popes from Pius IX through Pius XII did not finish the First Vatican Council. There is no good reason for these popes not to have finished the Council and we are all suffering with a terrible Church crisis as a result of it.

    You do know that "the Church" did the valid General Councils, right?
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    Offline forlorn

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    Re: The Last Necessary Ecuмenical Council
    « Reply #22 on: November 23, 2025, 07:35:08 PM »
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    • This does make me wonder why there was such a long gap after Trent. With 20 ecuмenical councils over 2000 years, we have a rate of about one per century. But there was over 300 years between Trent and Vatican I. Does anyone know why?
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    Offline Freind

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    Re: The Last Necessary Ecuмenical Council
    « Reply #23 on: Yesterday at 11:34:11 AM »
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    • Quote from: forlorn on November 23, 2025, 07:35:08 PM
    This does make me wonder why there was such a long gap after Trent. With 20 ecuмenical councils over 2000 years, we have a rate of about one per century. But there was over 300 years between Trent and Vatican I. Does anyone know why?

    The early Church saw few for hundreds of years. Why wonder? The books say that General Councils are not strictly necessary. 
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: The Last Necessary Ecuмenical Council
    « Reply #24 on: Yesterday at 12:07:51 PM »
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    • Quote from: forlorn on November 23, 2025, 07:35:08 PM
    This does make me wonder why there was such a long gap after Trent. With 20 ecuмenical councils over 2000 years, we have a rate of about one per century. But there was over 300 years between Trent and Vatican I. Does anyone know why?

    Well, just think of the timeframe.  Did anything new and major come up between the Prot revolt and Vatican I that suggested the need for a Council.  It was just Protism and nothing but Protism for several hundred years.  There's no need to explictly condemn each of the 27,000+ and counting variants of it.

    Leading up to Vatican I, though, you did have a rise in Gallicanism after the French Revolution, a trend which was in fact centered around attempting to dethrone Christ the King, while holding that the Pope and the Church had no temporal authority, i.e. separation of Church and State pushed by the Masonic revolutions of the mid-19th century (1848 many of them).  I believe that the second part of Vatican I would have dogmatically defined the dogma of Christ the King, which would in fact have precluded Vatican II's "Religious Liberty".  To prevent this was undoubtedly why the Masons started the Franco-Prussian war and why the Italians invaded the papal states.

    Before dealing with the temporal authority of the Pope, the Church, and the dogma of Christ the King, the Church had to define the spiritual authority of the Pope, which is what it did in Pastor Aeternus.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: The Last Necessary Ecuмenical Council
    « Reply #25 on: Yesterday at 12:15:15 PM »
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    • So, instead of the intention for Vatican I to define the Church's and Christ's temporal authority ... they brought us the exact opposite in Vatican II with "Religous Liberty", separate of Church and state, and the dethronement of Christ the King.

    In fact, with the election of Pius IX, they thought they had their man, but after the revolutions they started a couple years after his election, he was "converted" from having been widely regarded as the most liberal Cardinal in the Church to their intransigient enemy, and that's a large part of why he convened Vatican I, to put a stop to those forces.

    BTW, that's one reason I believe Prevost is not a pope.  I believe that due to the Promises of Christ for the papacy, that God would convert anyone who was simply a guy whose mind was messed up and where he erred in good faith ... just like he did with Pius IX.  I find the evidence that Pius IX had been a Mason to actually be fairly credible, but even if he hadn't formally joined, he was widely thought of as having been extremely sympathetic to the most liberal political forces pushing through Europe.  In any case, they thought they had their guy on the See of Peter, but when that failed due to the Promises of Christ over the papacy, that's when I believe they hatched the idea for the Siri operation.

    If you recall in the Alta Vendita likely written in the 1830s or 1840s, it says they were waiting for a Pope who had their mindset, in terms of being a liberal.  In 1846, they thougt they had their guy in Pius IX.  So they were emboldened to set off those 1848 Masonic revolutions ... but then Pius IX was converted (at least from his liberalism), and became their strongest enemy.  He convened Vatican I precisely to combat the errors of these Masons, starting with defining the Popes spiritual authority, and was going to define Christ the King and the Pope's (and Church's) temporal/secular authority as well, which would have completely pre-empted their plans for Religious Liberty.  So in 1870 they needed to interrupt and suspend Vatican I before it completed its job ... and they pulled it off.  And instead of getting Vatican I part 2, they give us Vatican II, which does the exact opposite.

    In the meantime, they started up WWI, and then set up Communism, to continue preventing this, and then leveraged Communism to infiltrate the Church, the hierarchy, and ultimately pull of the Siri Theory, where Commie agents among the Cardinals took care of business.

    They had realized that a real / legitimate Catholic pope would be prevented by the Promises of Christ from wrecking the Church, so they devised a way to stick an illegitimate (uncanonical per St. Francis prophecy) into the See who would not be protected.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: The Last Necessary Ecuмenical Council
    « Reply #26 on: Yesterday at 12:31:06 PM »
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    • Just like with Roncalli, the liberal press hailed the election of Pius IX right out of the gate.
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    Offline IndultCat

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    Re: The Last Necessary Ecuмenical Council
    « Reply #27 on: Yesterday at 02:05:58 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on Yesterday at 12:31:06 PM
    Just like with Roncalli, the liberal press hailed the election of Pius IX right out of the gate.
    Yes, and that's why it is no suprise that Pius IX eventually called and presided over the First Vatican Council without ever officially ending it. That Council was a colossal embarrassment to the non-catholic world and an utter failure since it refused to condemn the most pernicious error of Marxism/Communism. It also set the stage for its inevitable "false conclusion" with Vatican II. Both councils are jointly respinsibke for the current Church Crisis.

    There is a way out of the current crisis. I am trying to start a TCM = Tridentine Catholic Movement.

    It will consist of strict adherence to all 19 Ecuмenical Councils, with a primary focus on The Canons and Decrees of the Council of Trent. The Roman Catechism will be the primary catechism used and the following positions will be deemed "heretical":

    - Rejecting the validity of the Thuc bishops (And that goes for the Palmarian clergy as well)
    - Rejecting BOD/BOB (No Feeneyites)
    - Accepting The Cassiciacuм Thesis (Totalism instead of Sedeprivationism)
    - Rejecting the 1968 Rites of Episcopal Consecration and Priestly Ordination
    - Rejecting the Non-Una cuм position
    - Accepting Post-1955 Holy Week Liturgies
    - Accepting Conclavism
    - Rejecting Pope Pius XII's 1952 Consecration of Russia
    - Rejecting the choice to be a "home-aloner"
    - Accepting the claims of "Mary's Little Remnant" and it's heretical leader Richard Ibranyi
    - Firmly adhering to the following errors: "Siri Theory", "Sister Lucia Impostor", "Geocentrism", "Flat Earth", "Young Earth Creationism", and "Natural Family Planning".
    - Refusing to acknowledge the fact that the First Vatican Council (1869-1870) was unfinished by Pope Pius IX and all subsequent popes for over 90 years until an anti-pope claimed to conclude it as the Second Vatican Council (1962-1965).

    While Vatican II will always be considered a false council, Vatican I will always be considered a true (but embarrassing and unsuccessful) council which led the way to Vatican II.

    Why else is Pius XII very likely to be canonized soon by the Novus Ordo Church like they recently did with John Henry Newman? No wonder, like you said, the liberals loved it when Pius XII became pope.

    This is why I believe it is imperative to be a Tridentine Catholic first and foremost.
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    Online WorldsAway

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    Re: The Last Necessary Ecuмenical Council
    « Reply #28 on: Yesterday at 02:18:45 PM »
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    • Quote from: IndultCat on Yesterday at 02:05:58 PM
    Yes, and that's why it is no suprise that Pius IX eventually called and presided over the First Vatican Council without ever officially ending it. That Council was a colossal embarrassment to the non-catholic world and an utter failure since it refused to condemn the most pernicious error of Marxism/Communism. It also set the stage for its inevitable "false conclusion" with Vatican II. Both councils are jointly respinsibke for the current Church Crisis.

    There is a way out of the current crisis. I am trying to start a TCM = Tridentine Catholic Movement.

    It will consist of strict adherence to all 19 Ecuмenical Councils, with a primary focus on The Canons and Decrees of the Council of Trent. The Roman Catechism will be the primary catechism used and the following positions will be deemed "heretical":

    - Rejecting the validity of the Thuc bishops (And that goes for the Palmarian clergy as well)
    - Rejecting BOD/BOB (No Feeneyites)
    - Accepting The Cassiciacuм Thesis (Totalism instead of Sedeprivationism)
    - Rejecting the 1968 Rites of Episcopal Consecration and Priestly Ordination
    - Rejecting the Non-Una cuм position
    - Accepting Post-1955 Holy Week Liturgies
    - Accepting Conclavism
    - Rejecting Pope Pius XII's 1952 Consecration of Russia
    - Rejecting the choice to be a "home-aloner"
    - Accepting the claims of "Mary's Little Remnant" and it's heretical leader Richard Ibranyi
    - Firmly adhering to the following errors: "Siri Theory", "Sister Lucia Impostor", "Geocentrism", "Flat Earth", "Young Earth Creationism", and "Natural Family Planning".
    - Refusing to acknowledge the fact that the First Vatican Council (1869-1870) was unfinished by Pope Pius IX and all subsequent popes for over 90 years until an anti-pope claimed to conclude it as the Second Vatican Council (1962-1965).

    While Vatican II will always be considered a false council, Vatican I will always be considered a true (but embarrassing and unsuccessful) council which led the way to Vatican II.

    Why else is Pius XII very likely to be canonized soon by the Novus Ordo Church like they recently did with John Henry Newman? No wonder, like you said, the liberals loved it when Pius XII became pope.

    This is why I believe it is imperative to be a Tridentine Catholic first and foremost.
    Cool, the rest of us will remain Catholic.  Who among your Movement will have the authority to condemn anything you just listed as heretical?
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    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: The Last Necessary Ecuмenical Council
    « Reply #29 on: Yesterday at 03:01:53 PM »
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    • Quote from: IndultCat on Yesterday at 02:05:58 PM
    Yes, and that's why it is no suprise that Pius IX eventually called and presided over the First Vatican Council without ever officially ending it. That Council was a colossal embarrassment to the non-catholic world and an utter failure since it refused to condemn the most pernicious error of Marxism/Communism. It also set the stage for its inevitable "false conclusion" with Vatican II. Both councils are jointly respinsibke for the current Church Crisis.

    There is a way out of the current crisis. I am trying to start a TCM = Tridentine Catholic Movement.

    It will consist of strict adherence to all 19 Ecuмenical Councils, with a primary focus on The Canons and Decrees of the Council of Trent. The Roman Catechism will be the primary catechism used and the following positions will be deemed "heretical":

    - Rejecting the validity of the Thuc bishops (And that goes for the Palmarian clergy as well)
    - Rejecting BOD/BOB (No Feeneyites)
    - Accepting The Cassiciacuм Thesis (Totalism instead of Sedeprivationism)
    - Rejecting the 1968 Rites of Episcopal Consecration and Priestly Ordination
    - Rejecting the Non-Una cuм position
    - Accepting Post-1955 Holy Week Liturgies
    - Accepting Conclavism
    - Rejecting Pope Pius XII's 1952 Consecration of Russia
    - Rejecting the choice to be a "home-aloner"
    - Accepting the claims of "Mary's Little Remnant" and it's heretical leader Richard Ibranyi
    - Firmly adhering to the following errors: "Siri Theory", "Sister Lucia Impostor", "Geocentrism", "Flat Earth", "Young Earth Creationism", and "Natural Family Planning".
    - Refusing to acknowledge the fact that the First Vatican Council (1869-1870) was unfinished by Pope Pius IX and all subsequent popes for over 90 years until an anti-pope claimed to conclude it as the Second Vatican Council (1962-1965).

    While Vatican II will always be considered a false council, Vatican I will always be considered a true (but embarrassing and unsuccessful) council which led the way to Vatican II.

    Why else is Pius XII very likely to be canonized soon by the Novus Ordo Church like they recently did with John Henry Newman? No wonder, like you said, the liberals loved it when Pius XII became pope.

    This is why I believe it is imperative to be a Tridentine Catholic first and foremost.
    :facepalm::jester::fryingpan:
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