Catholic Info

Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: Alexandria on October 02, 2010, 05:57:14 PM

Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Alexandria on October 02, 2010, 05:57:14 PM
I don't know a thing about this, but in my vast reading have come across the John Birch Society and their connection with traditional chapels in the United States numerous times.

I know that the JBS was a communist controlled "resistance" organization but beyond that I know next to nothing other than Fr. Clarence Kelley writing a book either about them or dedicated to them in the early 1970s.  

Does anyone here know anything?
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Robert de Brus on October 02, 2010, 05:58:41 PM
Their current President is a SSPX-goer.  They are a shadow of what they once were;  National Review and that clique claimed to have 'excommunicated' them from conservatism.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Alexandria on October 02, 2010, 06:01:46 PM
Quote from: Robert de Brus
Their current President is a SSPX-goer.  They are a shadow of what they once were;  National Review and that clique claimed to have 'excommunicated' them from conservatism.


Thank you, but what I want to get to the bottom of is their connection with traditional chapels.    If the John Birch Society was set up as the controlled opposition, what does that say for traditional chapels and their support of the JBS?
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Robert de Brus on October 02, 2010, 06:03:47 PM
Quote from: Alexandria
Quote from: Robert de Brus
Their current President is a SSPX-goer.  They are a shadow of what they once were;  National Review and that clique claimed to have 'excommunicated' them from conservatism.


Thank you, but what I want to get to the bottom of is their connection with traditional chapels.    If the John Birch Society was set up as the controlled opposition, what does that say for traditional chapels and their support of the JBS?


The way the establishment mercilessly hammered them in the 60s (doesnt happen by accident) I would have a hard time believing they are controlled opposition.

I've never known of any connection to chapels.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Alexandria on October 02, 2010, 06:07:10 PM
Forgive me, I know you are new here, but I am not interested in party line answers.  I am not fingering the SSPX, so be at ease.  

I saw a spirited discussion of this on another forum that was locked.  I thought, since CathInfo is far more tolerant than others, it would be good to get to the truth.  

Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: roscoe on October 02, 2010, 06:23:59 PM
My understanding is that Robert Welch sold his candy company to Rockinfella and was then made head of the controlled opposition JBS.

I believe Spellman, Cohn and Hoover were all close to JBS as well. Spellman is the conduit whereby Cohn and maybe even Jules Issaacs become involved in Church affairs.

It would be interesting to know if Joe Welch was related to Robert in some other way besides a freemasonic connection.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Alexandria on October 02, 2010, 06:30:56 PM
Are you talking about Roy Cohn?

Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: roscoe on October 02, 2010, 06:49:05 PM
Yes and for those not aware, he is( was)  the uncle of Dick Morris.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Alexandria on October 02, 2010, 07:08:31 PM
Quote from: roscoe
Yes and for those not aware, he is( was)  the uncle of Dick Morris.


I met him once in the 70s (Roy Cohn, not Dick Morris).  He was an interesting little man with many connections.  I wish I had known then what I know now.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: innocenza on October 02, 2010, 07:29:56 PM
IMO, the JBS are controlled opposition:  they mix truth with lies, and people naively think they are 'conservatives' whose aim is to get back to 'Constitutional' government.  They are not an organization for true Catholics to be involved with.  And I would suspect, extrapolating from my own limited experience, that there are many people in traditional chapels who are being led down the river road by them.

Specifically, (1) their founder Robert Welch always denied that the conspiracy they talk about was in any sense a Jewish conspiracy; (2) they know what side their bread is buttered on and are highly pro-Zionist, completely minimizing the threat from that quarter.  They even made apologies and cried crocodile tears for poor Jonathan Pollard, wasting away in prison merely for having spied for our ally Israel; (3) they are always talking Ludwig von Mises/Austrian school economics, which is  the delight of the filthy rich corporate CEOs, the Rockefellers, the Rothschilds -- and not at all congruent with Catholic social justice.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: roscoe on October 02, 2010, 07:34:42 PM
I bet Pollard is in some country club min security joint-- if he's even in goal.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Alexandria on October 02, 2010, 07:34:58 PM
Innocenza, thank you.

I've known people from every kind of traditional chapel (SSPV, CMRI, SSPX) who have had, at one time or another, connections with this organization.  
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Elizabeth on October 02, 2010, 11:21:48 PM
Quote from: Alexandria


I know that the JBS was a communist controlled "resistance" organization but beyond that I know next to nothing other than Fr. Clarence Kelley writing a book either about them or dedicated to them in the early 1970s.  

Does anyone here know anything?


What convinced you they are a phoney resistance org?  

They are very plentiful in some chapels.  
If what you have concluded is true, it might explain a lot.
I don't know much about them but would be very interested to learn more.  One reason I don't know more is that they don't like answering questions about it.

Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Robert de Brus on October 03, 2010, 12:28:03 AM
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: innocenza on October 03, 2010, 02:36:36 PM
Alexandria,

I tried to send you a PM -- a forward from our mutual friend on the JBS subject -- but I got the message you were not accepting PMs.  Perhaps you will contact me about this.

Regards,
Janet C.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Elizabeth on October 03, 2010, 06:09:36 PM
The Birchers are very vague when questioned about what connection their is with trad Catholicism, in my experience.

*mum's the word*
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Catholic Samurai on October 04, 2010, 03:40:53 PM
Quote from: Elizabeth
The Birchers are very vague when questioned about what connection their is with trad Catholicism, in my experience.

*mum's the word*


While I know there are some people from the SSPX that are involved with JBS, and they try sometimes to get other Trads (the youth in particular) to go to their summer camps and read their literature, I do know that the SSPX priests that I'm familiar with do not approve of them or their propaganda.

Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Elizabeth on November 12, 2010, 05:23:39 PM
Quote from: Alexandria
Fr. Clarence Kelley writing a book either about them or dedicated to them in the early 1970s.  

Does anyone here know anything?


I missed this one!   :tinfoil: :tinfoil: (double dunce) What was the title?  

This is supposed to be from a 12-page report by a group of former high-ranking JBS members:

"Welch provided the most valuable service of all time to the Conspiracy.

 He founded an organization to neutralize millions of Americans from

discovering what the true power behind the illuminati was.  and we

concede the Masons chose an extremely clever man to do the job.

 Welch, with the help of the Belmont Brotherhood, plays his role very

effectively."

http://www.troyspace2.wordpress.com/2008/06/13/the-belmont-brotherhood-the-john-birch-society-high-level-masonry-the-cfr/
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Elizabeth on November 12, 2010, 05:30:21 PM
Quote from: Catholic Samurai
I do know that the SSPX priests that I'm familiar with do not approve of them or their propaganda.

 Thank the Good Lord for that!  

Keep their claws off our kids!!!!
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Elizabeth on November 12, 2010, 08:50:17 PM
bumping for Dawn
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Catholic Samurai on November 13, 2010, 01:14:47 PM
http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=13122#p15
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: roscoe on November 13, 2010, 05:17:02 PM
If anyone wants to see how Sen Mc Carthy was set up by Cohn and Joe Welch, go over to youtube and search Point Of Order Documentary.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Alexandria on November 13, 2010, 05:31:17 PM
Quote from: roscoe
If anyone wants to see how Sen Mc Carthy was set up by Cohn and Joe Welch, go over to youtube and search Point Of Order Documentary.


If I had high speed connection, I would.  As it is, I will just have to imagine what they did.  That Roy Cohn sure did get around though.  He was all over the place.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Thorn on November 14, 2010, 12:10:37 AM
At the risk of getting ignored by all or even banned, I'd like to give my two cents worth.

As I said in my intro, I was a member of the JBS years ago & am very grateful for what I learned.  I think Roscoe & a few others here have a skewed picture of the JBS. But then, they are probably going by what the JBS is now, which is a mere shadow of what it used to be.

In MHO Robert Welch was a genius & a prophet (not in the religious sense).  If people had heeded him then, we wouldn't be in the mess we are now.  Please hear me thro to the end, but I've often said that but for the JBS I'd be a bag lady or on welfare & my kids all on drugs instead of the successful, happy trads that we are.

Robert Welch founded the JBS in Dec. of 1958.  I joined in 1973.  I had noticed something wrong with the country & the church & felt quite alone.  Why didn't more people see what I saw?  When I went to my first few meetings I said that I had been a Bircher all my life & didn't know it.  Here I met trads (who showed me the way to the traditional Latin Mass said by a saintly elderly Jesuit) & non-Catholics, who became life-long friends.  They were witty, intelligent & dedicated. I devoured their books, subscribed to their newsmagazines where you got news that you never got in the controlled media, went to Council Dinners and later attended Robert Welch's Memorial  when he passed away in 1985.  I heard that he converted at the end which is possible as he knew some trad priests, but I don't really know.  All my children attended Birch camps to their great benefit.

Dr. Larry McDonald, a Congressman from Georgia, was being groomed to head the JBS,  but he was killed (murdered?) when a Soviet fighter pilot shot down the Korean Air Lines jetliner that he was on over the Sea of Japan.   There was always a curious dearth of news concerning this tragedy in which 60 other Americans lost their lives in 1983.  The JBS was never the same after this and went from one leader to another with at least one being a traditional Catholic.

Unfortunately the JBS went much like the Catholic Church with in-fighting and splits, and splits with splits, firings & hirings and nasty lawsuits with each side claiming to be the real JBS.   Our Bookstore that I sometimes helped in was closed and by the late 1990's I no longer was a member but remained friends with the few Birchers who hadn't died or left the state.  They aren't members now either.  I don't know why John McManus stays as it seems that the JBS has been taken over by the Mormons.  Religion was never an issue before, but the head is now a Mormon and there seems to be a lot of his family on the payroll, and perhaps his friends.  The quality of the monthy Bulletin went way down and they seemed to be just spinning their wheels which may be why some on this forum call them "a controlled opposition".

'The Sword of Christendom'  a book written by Rev. Fr. Stephen P. DeLallo of the SPPX has an Appendix on the JBS and one on Freemasonry and the American Republic that you might find interesting.

All in all, JBS writers were always brilliant, and I learned much from them that allowed me to protect my children from public "education" and the nonsense in the NO.  I now see their feet of clay and know that only the Social Reign of Christ the King can save us.  If all Catholics were informed and voted as real Catholics, this country could be turned around overnight.

The moral of this story is - do not fear the Birchers in the trad chapels.  I'd make friends with them as most likely they think exactly like you do and are very informed and go-getters.  At least they were way back when.  Of course there always is the possibility of a nutjob here or there, as there is in every organization but I'm speaking generally.  I'm just sad to see all the misinformation about them floating around. I could write more but this is getting too long.  And, no, I'm quite sure that Joe Welch is no relation to Robert Welch.        
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Thorn on November 14, 2010, 06:15:28 PM
Mea Culpa!  After sleeping after my post on the JBS, I realize that I said nothing about what it stood for, so I'll try to put it in a nutshell.
Their motto is 'Less Government, More [individual] Responsibility, And - With God's Help - A Better World.'  They were the Cadillac of all the anti-Communist organizations.

Nothing rankles them more than to call this country a democracy.  It's a Republic - that is, the rule of law; not of the majority which is what got us abortion & other ills.  It's true that it is being turned into a democracy, the better to slide into socialism & then Communism. They fought the good fight to inform.

They warned us of the U.N. and how dangerous it really was.

They kept us informed on what was going on in the public schools and how our children were not so much being educated but indoctrinated.  Barbara Morris' little book, 'Why Are You Losing Your Children' was invaluable.  Also James Hefley's 'Textbooks on Trial'  and many others.

Mr. Welch had an admiration for the Catholic Church's staunch anti-Communist stand and seemed surprised and saddened to see the direction it was starting to take.

They railed against Big Government, taxation, the Welfare State, gun control, and gave report cards on Congressmen.  It was here that I learned of Saul Alinski of Chicago.  Ever hear of him on the news?  Didn't think so.

Yes, another slogan was, 'Support Your Local Police' but the rest of the slogan was - And Keep Them Independent' as they feared a police state.

They believed that there was a conspiracy afoot as it was impossible to think that all this mayhem was happening by accident.  They were branded as extremists, yet everything Mr. Welch said has come true or is coming true.  

The best thing to do is read their books & use your Catholic sense as regards the Jews.

 
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Telesphorus on November 14, 2010, 07:33:02 PM
It's not so much the literature of the JBS that's troublesome as much as their goals and the nature of the organization.

It forms secretive networks in churches even though it is essentially indifferentist.  In that sense it is like a right-wing masonry.  And they aren't against Freemasonry.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Elizabeth on November 14, 2010, 07:48:54 PM
Quote from: Telesphorus


It forms secretive networks in churches   .


That's the thing.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Thorn on November 14, 2010, 08:13:30 PM
re secretive networks in churches - I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

They write & talk about Freemasonry all the time!!

Just as not all Catholics belong to the NO, not all Jews are connected to the conspiracy and there are non-Jews in the conspiracy as well.

Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Thorn on November 14, 2010, 08:17:32 PM
Their goals are to get us out of the UN & to have less government & more individual responsibility!!  That's bad?!
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: roscoe on November 14, 2010, 08:22:25 PM
About 1997 the literature avail from JBS changed radically. Now they are practically worthless. I have never believed the story they floated that KAL 007 somehow landed in China and Cong Mc Donald( nephew of G Patton) survives in a Camp somewhere.

I believe that Cong Mc Donald was at least a professing Catholic.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Telesphorus on November 14, 2010, 08:22:51 PM
Quote from: Thorn
Their goals are to get us out of the UN & to have less government & more individual responsibility!!  That's bad?!



Those goals aren't bad, the problem is the JBS isn't Catholic.  
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: roscoe on November 14, 2010, 08:25:44 PM
Quote from: Thorn
Their goals are to get us out of the UN & to have less government & more individual responsibility!!  That's bad?!


It's not exactly anything original. It sounds like George Putnam from 15 yrs ago-- just hot air.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Telesphorus on November 14, 2010, 08:31:50 PM
Quote from: Thorn
re secretive networks in churches - I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

They write & talk about Freemasonry all the time!!

Just as not all Catholics belong to the NO, not all Jews are connected to the conspiracy and there are non-Jews in the conspiracy as well.



I have their reprint of "Proofs of a Conspiracy" since it was missing and never replaced at our university library.  Interesting they don't discuss John Quincy Adams Book on Freemasonry. (which isn't in our university library, but an old copy published in Cincinnati at the time th book came out is at the diocesan seminary!)  This cut and paste, with some text cut, corresponds to what is in their "Americanist Classics" Proofs of a Conspiracy:

 
Quote
  "Robison, a former Mason himself, found that 'this impunity [from authority by maintaining the Masonic rule of secrecy] had gradually encouraged men of licentious principles to become more bold, and to teach doctrines subversive of all our notions of morality.' Let us be quick to say that Freemasonry in England, America and elsewhere has historically, and today is, quite another kind and its members characterized by high standards of morality and spirituality...
    "The true purpose of the [Illuminati] Order was to rule the world. To achieve this it was necessary for the Order to destroy all religions, overthrow all governments, and abolish private property...This is exactly what the Communists have been doing since 1848! Please note that Robison makes it clear that the Illuminati Order was quite distinct and separate from Freemasonry...[the] conspiracy [was] conceived not by Masons as Masons, but by evil men using Freemasonry as a vehicle for their own purposes...In the realm of ideology, certainly the line from the Illuminati Order to the Communist Manifesto is straight and unbroken...
   "Let it be stressed that the present publication of Robison's work is not intended to open old wounds or create new animosity or distrust toward Freemasonry, whose adherents today certainly number among our staunchest patriots and anti-Communists... The conspirators have long since discarded Freemasonry as their vehicle. If clever conspirators could use - of all groups - so fine a group as the Masons, we must open our minds to consider what infinite possibilities are available to them in our own present day society. Their main habitat these days seems to be the great subsidized universities, tax-free foundations, mass media communications, governmental bureaus such as the State Department, and a myriad of private organizations such as the Council on Foreign Relations..."


http://watch.pair.com/jbs-cnp.html

Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Thorn on November 14, 2010, 09:16:00 PM
Telesphorus - I'll see if I have 'Proofs of a Conspiracy' & find that quote.  Meanwhile let me go out on a limb here & say that I think what he meant was that the present day Masons are probably as ignorant of the conspiracy [as the present day NO Catholics are on the true teachings of the church] & therefore are not part of the conspiracy.  They just go merrily on their way helping crippled children & other philanthropic things and are in it for the brotherhood.

Yes, the JBS isn't Catholic but neither are the Toastmasters.  This means I can't join?!  Tell me a Catholic organization that does what the JBS tries to do in informing voters & I may join.  
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Telesphorus on November 14, 2010, 09:18:14 PM
Quote from: Thorn
Yes, the JBS isn't Catholic but neither are the Toastmasters.  This means I can't join?!  Tell me a Catholic organization that does what the JBS tries to do in informing voters & I may join.  


I don't know.  I just have reservations about them.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Thorn on November 14, 2010, 09:37:58 PM
Roscoe, almost everything you post is wrong & you're starting to irritate me.

It was the JBS that first sounded the alarm about the UN & not Mr. Putnam.  Truth is hot air?  What's with you?

You are correct in their material from the 90's on being practically worthless, but that's when the infighting started & they went downhill.  When I write of the JBS, I write of what they were when I was a member in the 70's & 80's.
I did hear of the possibility of McDonald surviving but that was just thrown out as a POSSIBILITY as the news was very scanty regarding that crash.  So you didn't buy it. Who cares?  It's neither here nor there. I don't remember anything being said that he was related to Patton.  McDonald was a Baptist.

I think that henceforth you need to quote sources for what you say & that might keep you on a straight path instead of just posting made up stuff.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: roscoe on November 14, 2010, 10:07:56 PM
George all the time played a clip of him speaking to a crowd about 1960 and in no uncertain terms pushing for a US pullout from the UN. He picked up on it about the same time as JBS.  The truthfullness of the matter is not imp in this case as any one of a million neo-cons will tell Some of it and BWM re : the UN

This is old news and is evidence of nothing.

Their New Am Magazine published articles on KAL 007 and I believe JBS is hiding the truth about what happened. Sorry if U are not interested and if I am irritating.

I wasn't sure about his religion and I cannot remember the source on the Patton story offhand.

I am not aware of making anything up.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Thorn on November 14, 2010, 10:51:20 PM
Telesphorus, if you don't know anything & have reservations with absolutely no proof, then the better part of valor would be to keep your reservations to yourself & not malign a person or organization founded for the purpose of bettering this poor world, don'tcha think?  So it isn't perfect.  Name one human institution that is. Why, posters here are finding fault with even a divinely instituted organization!!!   What hope have we?
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Thorn on November 14, 2010, 11:08:36 PM
Honestly Roscoe,  - the JBS is hiding the truth??!!!  They weren't doing the investigation!!  They wanted the truth!  Hiding what truth?  How?  What part did the major media play?  

 evidence of nothing?  What does that mean?

'a clip of him' - Who's him?  McDonald?  So?

 The truthfulness of the matter is not important?  

Are you all right?  You're not making sense.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Telesphorus on November 14, 2010, 11:09:14 PM
Quote
Telesphorus, if you don't know anything & have reservations with absolutely no proof, then the better part of valor would be to keep your reservations to yourself & not malign a person or organization founded for the purpose of bettering this poor world, don'tcha think?


It's a secretive, religiously indifferent organization that says Freemasonry is a okay and talks about conspiracy theory without mentioning Jews.

I am completely justified in having reservations.  You know, when I was an NO altar boy, the priest told me I should join the JBS.  I took an interest in the JBS and think they have done good works.  But the fact remains they do not support the Reign of Christ the King.  I have been told their members organize in traditional parishes.  I have a problem with a non-Catholic organization doing that.  And yes, they are secretive, denying they are secretive is a hallmark of secrecy!
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: roscoe on November 14, 2010, 11:38:26 PM
To be clear-- the above should read .... George played a clip of HIMSELF.......

The truth is that KAL 007 was blown up over the Sea of Japan and with it Cong Mc Donald. Reagen didn't even go to the funeral.

Mo is that it means very little if somebody wants out of the UN. This is Conspiracy research that is 60 yrs old. Give us some Beef!!
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: roscoe on November 14, 2010, 11:39:43 PM
Quote from: Thorn
Honestly Roscoe,  - the JBS is hiding the truth??!!!  They weren't doing the investigation!!  They wanted the truth!  Hiding what truth?  How?  What part did the major media play?  

 evidence of nothing?  What does that mean?

'a clip of him' - Who's him?  McDonald?  So?

 The truthfulness of the matter is not important?  

Are you all right?  You're not making sense.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: roscoe on November 14, 2010, 11:40:52 PM
Quote from: roscoe
To be clear-- the above should read .... George played a clip of HIMSELF.......

The truth is that KAL 007 was blown up over the Sea of Japan and with it Cong Mc Donald. Reagen didn't even go to the funeral.

Mo is that it means very little if somebody wants out of the UN. This is Conspiracy research that is 60 yrs old. Give us some Beef!!
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Thorn on November 14, 2010, 11:49:23 PM

Telesphorus - The Toastmasters are religiously indifferent too & do good work but on a different plane.  How this equates to being bad I can't compute.  Sorry.

They do not say that Freemasonry is good.  Prove that statement.

As I pointed out, they do not mention Jews in the conspiracy because some Jews are not involved and there are Gentiles involved as well.

Just because they don't mention the Social Reign of Christ the King, doesn't mean that they are opposed to it either.  I've not read of you pushing for the Reign of Christ the King either so what's your problem?

Have your reservations but don't spout them in public as if they were fact.

You have been told that they organize in trad parishes?  By whom?  What proof please.  Is this against some law?  I'm not saying that they do or don't.  I never heard of this but they organize all over the place.  What damage are they supposedly doing to these parishes?  Are you saying that they are taking over the parishes or what?  Have you gone to any of these meetings to see what's going on for yourself or are you saying that you've tried but they're secretive & so can't get in?  When I was a Bircher we'd go out beating the bushes to get people to come to our meetings so I just don't get this secrecy business.

For the umpteenth time.  They.  Are.  Not.  Secretive.  Prove this.

In the meantime I hate to do this to you but you forced me to offer you a gorgeous bridge that spans the East River in New York City.  I'm convinced you're the perfect person for it.
Sorry, but what else can be said after what you yourself just wrote.


Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Thorn on November 14, 2010, 11:54:12 PM
Roscoe, you're still not making sense.  We are still in the UN.
 It means little to get out of it??!  You're hopeless.  Good nite.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: roscoe on November 15, 2010, 12:18:30 AM
 :wine-drinking: :smoke-pot:
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: roscoe on November 15, 2010, 12:41:24 AM
Herr Torn-- Do U believe that E rev around S?
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: innocenza on November 15, 2010, 05:43:58 AM
Amen, Roscoe, except that I think Thorn is a lady.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Belloc on November 15, 2010, 07:10:40 AM
Quote from: Robert de Brus
Their current President is a SSPX-goer.  They are a shadow of what they once were;  National Review and that clique claimed to have 'excommunicated' them from conservatism.


some things with JBS are good, have a video that was so-so until mid way, when it turned very pro-Capitalist (condemned) and Americanist (condemned)

even in SSPX circles, there are problems with this, though many leaders of SSPX in past were pro-Distributist and anti-Nationalistic......
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Belloc on November 15, 2010, 07:18:58 AM
Quote from: Thorn
Their goals are to get us out of the UN & to have less government & more individual responsibility!!  That's bad?!


in itself, no-but hte individual responsibility thing is a long motto of conservatives/libertarians, but it is vague and has roots in Enlightenment...we have liberty in Christ and His Church....free to do what we ought, but the term is used often by those groups as an end to itself or vaguely defined.....
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Belloc on November 15, 2010, 07:21:09 AM
Quote from: Thorn
Tell me a Catholic organization that does what the JBS tries to do in informing voters & I may join.  


why join, maybe should start a group...take some time, effort, initiative,beut would be worth it....Pope Leo XIII warned as did others after him about joining non-Catholic groups, can be a fine and thin line there....hence Leo called for Catholic Action and Catholic unions,etc....
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Belloc on November 15, 2010, 07:22:35 AM
Quote from: Telesphorus
Quote
Telesphorus, if you don't know anything & have reservations with absolutely no proof, then the better part of valor would be to keep your reservations to yourself & not malign a person or organization founded for the purpose of bettering this poor world, don'tcha think?


It's a secretive, religiously indifferent organization that says Freemasonry is a okay and talks about conspiracy theory without mentioning Jews.

I am completely justified in having reservations.  You know, when I was an NO altar boy, the priest told me I should join the JBS.  I took an interest in the JBS and think they have done good works.  But the fact remains they do not support the Reign of Christ the King.  I have been told their members organize in traditional parishes.  I have a problem with a non-Catholic organization doing that.  And yes, they are secretive, denying they are secretive is a hallmark of secrecy!


well put, another reason for Catholics to join or start Catholic organizations....League of Christ the King maybe one..some nations, may still have Catholic Action groups....
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Thorn on November 15, 2010, 11:34:46 AM
I completely agree about starting or joining Catholic organizations.  It's the only way, really.  But at the time I joined the JBS there were none to join & I didn't have the wherewithal to start one as I had a family to raise.  I also have no problem with pointing out their Americanist & capitalist leanings.  It's the lies and distortions that ruffles my feathers severely.  In the trad school & parish where I was, they organized a Boy Scout chapter or whatever it's called.  In Telesphorus' world is this OK?  If not, why not?   Also Telesphorus should write to JBS HQ to tell them that they're not keeping their 'secrets' too well as he's heard that they are openly organizing in trad parishes.  They need a good laugh in these dismal times.  I still would like to know what damage they were doing.

While the JBS has deteriorated, I will always be grateful to God that I found them when I did and learned so much and met such great people.  The good news is that after all the splits, the Birchers formed other foundations and organizations to spread the word and inform people and so the basic message is getting out but without the stigma of the JBS name.

btw, a partial quote from Robert Welch is - '...Catholics should become better Catholics, .....'    
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Thorn on November 15, 2010, 11:39:06 AM
As I said before, almost everything poor Roscoe posts has something wrong with it.  I don't want to deal with him any more.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Alexandria on November 15, 2010, 11:50:26 AM
The way you are reacting, Thorn, to any criticisms of your sacred cow tells me everything I need to know.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Thorn on November 15, 2010, 12:04:26 PM
Excuse me.  ANY criticisms?  I just said I don't mind valid ones.  Sacred Cow?!   A bit harsh, no?   The JBS is NOT what it used to be I just wrote.   I never thought that being loyal to old friends would be a problem.  Maybe these reactions are what keep some Birchers 'secret' (silent) about their affiliations.   It used to be that Catholics had to remain mum.  What a sad spot we've come to.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Alexandria on November 15, 2010, 12:09:00 PM
Quote from: Thorn
Excuse me.  ANY criticisms?  I just said I don't mind valid ones.  Sacred Cow?!   A bit harsh, no?   The JBS is NOT what it used to be I just wrote.   I never thought that being loyal to old friends would be a problem.  Maybe these reactions are what keep some Birchers 'secret' (silent) about their affiliations.   It used to be that Catholics had to remain mum.  What a sad spot we've come to.


 :rolleyes:
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: roscoe on November 15, 2010, 12:25:22 PM
The Earth/Sun question has not been answered.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Dawn on November 15, 2010, 03:34:10 PM
Thorn, actually no the Boy Scouts, YMCA or JBS are not all right for Catholics. And, why? Well the obvious truth is that they are not started with Christ in mind. Not the Christ of the Protestants (Though certainly with the JBS society having the Jew Roy Cohn as a leader at the start speaks for itself there). No, Catholics are forbidden to join ANY organizations whatsoever that are begun by anyone outside of the one True Faith. Unless their entire game plan is to get everyone praying the  Rosary, Converting to the One True Church Outside of Which There is NO HOPE for Salvation, and promoting the Social Teaching of Jesus Christ as King, then they are nothing we should have anything to do with period.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Dawn on November 15, 2010, 03:38:35 PM
Quote from: Thorn
I completely agree about starting or joining Catholic organizations.  It's the only way, really.  But at the time I joined the JBS there were none to join & I didn't have the wherewithal to start one as I had a family to raise.  I also have no problem with pointing out their Americanist & capitalist leanings.  It's the lies and distortions that ruffles my feathers severely.  In the trad school & parish where I was, they organized a Boy Scout chapter or whatever it's called.  In Telesphorus' world is this OK?  If not, why not?   Also Telesphorus should write to JBS HQ to tell them that they're not keeping their 'secrets' too well as he's heard that they are openly organizing in trad parishes.  They need a good laugh in these dismal times.  I still would like to know what damage they were doing.

While the JBS has deteriorated, I will always be grateful to God that I found them when I did and learned so much and met such great people.  The good news is that after all the splits, the Birchers formed other foundations and organizations to spread the word and inform people and so the basic message is getting out but without the stigma of the JBS name.

btw, a partial quote from Robert Welch is - '...Catholics should become better Catholics, .....'    



Thought that last was always credited to Therese of Calcutta. Muslims better Muslims, Hindu a better Hindu and so on. Which of course is evil in itself.
 
If the had just a dash of Americanism then run like heck. A dash of poison will ruin the whole batch. Nothing good can come out of an organization that is not 100% Catholic and by that I certainly do not mean the New False religion of Vatican II.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Telesphorus on November 15, 2010, 03:46:23 PM
Quote
You know, when I was an NO altar boy, the priest told me I should join the JBS.  


He was being facetious, of course.

This priest also told a woman, right in front of me, not to worry about artificial contraception.  

I was maybe 12 at the time.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Alexandria on November 15, 2010, 03:50:29 PM
Quote
Thought that last was always credited to Therese of Calcutta. Muslims better Muslims, Hindu a better Hindu and so on. Which of course is evil in itself.


I thought the exact same thing.  Maybe Mother Teresa borrowed it from this Welch man and tweaked it a bit to be more up-to-date?  
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Thorn on November 15, 2010, 08:25:39 PM
 I wanted to clear up a few misunderstandings of the JBS ( the one I once knew, not the present one).  I see how wearing the task is as there's just too many little points that demand refutation.  It's like explaining Catholicism to a Mormon. (no need to correct me as I'm NOT comparing Catholicism to the JBS or even meaning to put it on the same plane.  It's simply a comparison - no more.)

Thanks to all your comments, I now have an even greater understanding of why we're in such deep do-do in this country, world & church.

btw, that 'dunce' cap some of you put on is really a tinfoil hat, but that's an entirely other subject that I won't touch.  That priest that I have my disagreements with is into that sort of stuff.  Scary.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Thorn on November 15, 2010, 08:30:36 PM
PS St Jude, I just read your post on the moon & you used the hat correctly so I'm not referring to you.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: St Jude Thaddeus on November 15, 2010, 08:36:44 PM
Actually, at first I thought it was a dunce cap, too, then I noticed that when I hovered the pointer over it, it said "tinfoil," and I realized I had been using it wrong.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Catholic Samurai on November 16, 2010, 10:18:59 AM
Quote from: Thorn
 All my children attended Birch camps to their great benefit.


I attended one of the Birch summer camps when I was 13. It was anything but edifying, on the contrary, I would say it was somewhat traumatizing, being an isolated homeschooler. I had (at that age) never encountered such bad kids and careless chaperons allowing outright breaking of the "camp rules".

Hanky-panky and frequent vulgarities on the part of some (not all mind you) of the camp attendees were tolerated by the camp counselors, EVEN WHEN IT WAS DONE RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEM.  Of course there was the occasional warning (once a day on the individual level) which was addressed publicly only a couple times. There was however NO disciplinary action taken against anyone. When we took a trip to the river, the girls who brought swimsuits were supposed to have one-piece swimsuits (at least that's what the paper said), but the counselors didnt have any problem with the immodest swimsuits that they donned anyway. And the so called "trad" youth who was an organizer of sorts behaved so badly I thought he was a hedge-catholic donning a scapular.

It was most certainly not a Catholic friendly atmosphere, and if I had kids I would most certainly not send them there. What's worse is that the JBS member who arranged for myself and a couple other Trads to go to that camp was a member of a Traditional Catholic chapel (sede-independent, not SSPX if your wondering).

Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Telesphorus on November 16, 2010, 10:33:33 AM
That's always going to be the way it is with the children whose children meet other children in religiously indifferent organizations.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Alexandria on November 16, 2010, 11:33:05 AM
Quote
btw, that 'dunce' cap some of you put on is really a tinfoil hat, but that's an entirely other subject that I won't touch. That priest that I have my disagreements with is into that sort of stuff. Scary.


I am aware that it is a tinfoil hat, but it serves its purpose as a dunce cap as well.

Try it on, Thorn!  One size fits all!!
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Thorn on November 16, 2010, 12:59:46 PM
Wow! I guess I'm grateful that I was a Bircher way back when when things obviously were a lot different.  My kids went to camp on both the West & East coasts.  My oldest son was a counselor after he was grown & I was even one, one year & it wasn't like that at all.  It reminds me of the changes in the church, I guess, when you go to a NO church you don't even recognize it as a Catholic church anymore.  Looks like if I went to a Birch camp now I wouldn't recognize it either.  Maybe the splinter groups are more like the old JBS & the present JBS is like the NO?

As far as Alexandria wanting me to don the dunce cap, many people would disagree with you, Alexandria, and I have a strong feeling that if you met me face to face & got to know me you'd apologize for that crude remark.  I was responding to someone on the forum wanting to know about the JBS & I gave a very brief rundown on my experiences. I see that you are content with what you think you know about this group and I have not the time nor desire to go over all the points.  There's just too many. I still work and also I have no desire to force someone to see  something that they don't want to see.  Christ wouldn't do that & neither will I. Also, as I've said, it's not like it once was.  My children, grandchildren and I were spared from the NO, so what more can I ask?  Two sons-in-law converted  and a NO daughter-in-law is now a trad & homeschooling their oldest.  I am blessed beyond measure due in part with my early association with the JBS which led me to the traditional Mass.  Christ never wanted His followers to be insular.  How are we to convert souls if we stick like glue to our own?

If, on the other hand, you wanted me to put on the tinfoil hat - no thanks.  I'm not into black beams, sylphs & new age stuff.

PS I will put on the dunce cap when it comes to this computer tho.  I'd love to figure out how to do the smilies.  When my daughter comes for Thanksgiving I'm going to get her to teach this old dog a few new tricks!
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Alexandria on November 16, 2010, 01:11:41 PM
Offer your wounded self-love and pride up as a sacrifice, Thorn!

I am glad you have no desire to force someone to see what you think you know.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Alexandria on November 16, 2010, 01:29:08 PM
One more thing.  The dunce cap is a joke, Thorn.   I'll speak for myself.  I am aware that I am not all-knowing and have a lot to learn in many ways.  So, the dunce cap comes in handy.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: roscoe on November 16, 2010, 02:17:02 PM
I am still curious to know if Thorn believes E to rev around S or if he believes( like Luther, Calvin, James, De Vere, Bacon and Sungenis etc)  that S rev around E.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Dawn on November 16, 2010, 02:44:58 PM
Thorn, here is a little blurb on Welch, the man who started the John Birch Society :Welch was born in rural Chowan County, North Carolina. As a child he was considered "gifted" receiving his early education at home from his mother, a school teacher. He enrolled in high school at the age of ten and was admitted to the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill at the age of twelve. Welch was a fundamentalist Baptist and, by his own admission, was "insufferable" in his attempts to convert his fellow students. He later became a Unitarian, remaining so for most his life. Welch attended the United States Naval Academy and Harvard Law School but dropped out of both institutions before graduating. He would later assert this was because of his opposition to the political leanings of the instructors.


Aside from the fact that you are not bothered with the admonitions from the Pre-Vatican II Pontiffs that we are not to join ANY societies like this. Please explain to me the good that can come from this Naturalist Group called the John Birch Society founded by a Fundamentalist Baptist who then turns Unitarian so that just screams from the rafters that he was an enemy to the One True Faith, but gosh darn it and enemy to communists.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Elizabeth on November 16, 2010, 04:16:19 PM
I would be delighted for any input on this article about the Belmont Brotherhood.

http://watch.pair.com/belmont.html

If it is spurious, I'd like to know.
 :cheers:
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Thorn on November 16, 2010, 08:52:27 PM
Dawn, once more the misunderstandings come out.  I don't know why.  You post that I'm not bothered by the pre Vat II Popes' admonitions on joining such societies.  This is false as I knew I couldn't join the Y (& later knew about the Scouts so pulled my kids out after a short time) & never went there (Y) even for innocuous  activities.  Please understand that I joined the JBS in 1973 (after Vat II) and had never heard any admonitions about it and was very concerned about what was happening in the church mainly, and about the direction of the country, and the JBS was not billed as a religiously inclined society but as an educational one.  There I met trad Catholics of like mind.  We left when the Birch Society fell apart so to speak.  I never was a flag waving Americanist to begin with and concentrated on the present day problems and tried to educate myself to vote intelligently.  I never, ever got a feeling of any anti-Catholicism from Mr. Welch or any one else.  We didn't talk about religion.  However I do remember a non-Catholic said something that was untrue  once about the obelisk at the Vatican & my Catholic friend gently setting her straight. The meetings were about the political situation in our country and how we could do our part to help correct it.
I've never heard about Mr. Welch being a Unitarian and would have to have proof of that.  Once again I don't get all the animosity about all this.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Thorn on November 16, 2010, 09:13:21 PM
Elizabeth, if I wasn't such a dunce about how the smilies work, I'd put on a dunce cap as I don't know enough about the Belmont Brotherhood to comment.  I do recognize the name Robert Love as he had a private school & I wrote to him and was quite dissatisfied.  I can't remember what it was about but it was probably about the school.  The others I know they were on the Council but don't know anything about them.

I do know that some left-leaning organization has the Birch Society on their list as a subversive group.  Some people believe everything they read which may explain if a Bircher is tight-lipped (secretive?).  
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Thorn on November 17, 2010, 10:54:11 AM
Alexandria, I don't know what's gotten into you, but you're not my confessor to judge my self-love & pride.
Actually I know what a wretch of a sinner I am.  I can justly hang my head in shame.  I'm a mousey little woman who would be lost in a crowd but by the grace of God became a tigress with regards to my kids if any teacher or anyone else messed with their faith or mind.  Maybe I should have gotten one of them on this forum to post so it wouldn't look like I was bragging.  I refuse to bad-mouth any instrument (organization or person) that God put in my path to save us from the NO & government indoctrination centers commonly known as public schools, even if that instrument later fell apart.  This little family has gone thro a few cruel twists of fate but has survived by the grace of God to be happy & successful trads.  

Do you have a problem with Mary's Magnificat?  
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Thorn on November 17, 2010, 11:10:00 AM
PS: or that instrument was later discovered with feet of clay.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Dawn on November 17, 2010, 11:19:48 AM
I am sorry Thorn. I should not accuse you of anything. But, that does not change the truth that, although there is no harm in a group of people who are not Catholics discussing politics, they can not come up with the answer to the problem. And, the reason why is that THEY ARE the problem. If they would leave their religions that Satan built and convert to the True Church the problem would be solved.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Alexandria on November 17, 2010, 11:35:42 AM
Thorn, why don't you start your own thread on the merits on the John Birch Society.  This thread was started to investigate their connection with traditional chapels.

Also, you are to be commended for never having made judgments about another person that are best left to God.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Dawn on November 17, 2010, 03:22:55 PM
This John Birch Society thread really bothers me. Why is it not plain as day that unless this is Catholic and promotes Christ as King it is no good and MUST be avoided. Jesus is clear as a bell when he says that the the Prince of this world has nothing in my nor I in him. So, that tells us that anything that is not 100% devoted to the True Faith and made up of Catholics working toward that goal of converting souls to the True Faith can never amount to anything.
There are no shades of gray with the faith.It is either black or white. You are either 100% for Jesus and by that you MUST be in HIS ONE TRUE CHURCH. Not one deluded soul that is not a member of HIS Church can ever solve any world or national problems. It is impossible.
I am sure that the John Birch Society supports the masonic idea of Life, Liberty and Happiness and Government of the people, by the people and for the people, and the old chestnut from 1789, Liberty, Equality and Fraternity. And, those thoughts of the revolutions will get you nothing but a one way ticket to hell
It is wonderful if somebody has a family member that came to the Church and if JBS had something to do with that (though I do not know how) great. But, there again it must be a conversion to the True Faith and not that creation of man known as the Novus Ordo.
So, there for the record. Judging? No, just using my brain and not thinking with my emotions. I am kind to all I meet but I will not have anything more than a passing nod to anyone in any societies and that includes John Birch.
The society I want to belong to is the tried and true Society of Saints in Heaven. They are the only ones who can help us by their prayers solve the problems in this country.
And, that will not happen until people learn that there are two countries, the America that Columbus found with the help of Her Most Catholic Majesty Isabella of Spain. The one where the blood of the Spanish and French and Portuguese Blood was shed at the hand of the Masonic-Satanic inspired Protestants. That held a revolution against their rightful Monarch and invented the U.S.A. Which is a completely different animal than Catholic America ever was.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: roscoe on November 17, 2010, 03:41:08 PM
Thank U Dawn  :cheers: :boxer:
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Alexandria on November 17, 2010, 03:42:30 PM
 :wink:   :wink:
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Thorn on November 17, 2010, 03:58:46 PM
Dawn, I agree with you 100%.  I saw that more clearly after reading "The Sword of Christendom" by Fr. DeLallo.  But that was then & this is now.  When I joined the JBS I gained invaluable information and that can't be taken away or discounted.  I now know that only the Social Reign of Christ the King will truly save us.  Please don't jump on me for this - but I find trads to be rather insular.  We need to get down in the trenches with the non-Catholics (no, not necessarily joining their clubs to do so) much like Christ did when He walked this earth, and talk to non-Catholics and try to convert them rather than be complacent in our pews.  We trads have tremendous work to do here while there's still time, and what do we do instead?  WE ARGUE AMONG OURSELVES!!!  Yes, we sit and argue in front of an inhuman screen with people we don't even know, for crying out loud!!  Meanwhile souls are thirsting for the truth.

Alexandria, I don't want to start another thread because I've said all I'm going to say about the JBS.  If this was started to find out about their 'connection' to trad chapels, has that question been answered yet?   I haven't seen it & neither have I seen any damage done by them if there is a 'connection'.    
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Thorn on November 17, 2010, 04:12:10 PM
Oops! Dawn, you beat me to the punch.
I mean I agree with you on your 5:19PM post.  Once more you show a misunderstanding of the JBS in your 9:22 post.  For the record, they do NOT foster the Masonic cry of Life, Liberty & Fraternity!!  Where on earth are you getting these ideas?
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: roscoe on November 17, 2010, 04:13:20 PM
Catholics cannot go to non-catholics when our own house is in shambles. The first priority is to heave the anti-pope and restore True Infallibility.

R Welch was a freemason. What else does Thorn need to know?
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Alexandria on November 17, 2010, 04:14:59 PM
 Thorn, how could you possibly know what any of us do or don't do regarding the Faith and trying to help others?

No, Thorn, the question hasn't been answered yet, but there is a connection.

Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Dawn on November 17, 2010, 04:20:14 PM
Quote from: Thorn
Oops! Dawn, you beat me to the punch.
I mean I agree with you on your 5:19PM post.  Once more you show a misunderstanding of the JBS in your 9:22 post.  For the record, they do NOT foster the Masonic cry of Life, Liberty & Fraternity!!  Where on earth are you getting these ideas?


Well, now. I did read things on there site. And, I am sorry, I do not see one reference to Our Lady, One reference to the Rosary, one reference to Christ as King and His True Church. I see their ideas on how to fix the USofA. I see the big American Eagle. I see books for sale on Liberty. And, books by Dennis Cuddy and Thomas Woods both not Trad Catholics (oh I  know woods likes to pretend).
So, dear you tell me where the references against this are.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Thorn on November 17, 2010, 04:20:51 PM
Lay Catholics can't heave an anti-pope or even a Pope.  And yes, we can go to non-Catholics with the truth right now.  Christ commands us.  St. Catherine of Siena, pray for us!!
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Dawn on November 17, 2010, 04:21:37 PM
Quote from: roscoe
Catholics cannot go to non-catholics when our own house is in shambles. The first priority is to heave the anti-pope and restore True Infallibility.

R Welch was a freemason. What else does Thorn need to know?

 :applause:

Sadly Roscoe these people are brought up on the breast-milk of Americanism. Which as you know is a heresy. So, until they remove the blinders they can never see.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Alexandria on November 17, 2010, 04:24:52 PM
Quote from: Dawn
Quote from: roscoe
Catholics cannot go to non-catholics when our own house is in shambles. The first priority is to heave the anti-pope and restore True Infallibility.

R Welch was a freemason. What else does Thorn need to know?

 :applause:

Sadly Roscoe these people are brought up on the breast-milk of Americanism. Which as you know is a heresy. So, until they remove the blinders they can never see.


Amen.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Thorn on November 17, 2010, 04:33:35 PM
Dawn, please, the JBS isn't a religious org.  I have no idea what books they have NOW, as I've tried hard to explain.  If they had books as you suggested, then they'd have to have books on Mormonism, anti-Catholic books by Protestants, etc.

Alexandria, I wrote in the vein of 'if the shoe fits'.  If it doesn't fit you, more power to you & good for you!  I'm really glad! (clap, clap)
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Dawn on November 17, 2010, 04:42:30 PM
Where did I ever say it was a religious organization? It is not. And, that is the problem.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: roscoe on November 17, 2010, 04:44:53 PM
Some good info could be had from JBS at one time but I always wondered why they never told the truth about KAL 007-- the plane was blown up.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Thorn on November 18, 2010, 01:12:06 PM
So, Dawn, you will only get your information from Catholic sources?  You therefore don't read secular newspapers or magazines?  I can see that in a cloister or monastery, but not for a layman.  I also can see not going to Bible study groups with non-Catholics or even going to the Y for anything and giving them money.  I know you don't like my opinions, but I don't think Christ wants his soldiers in the world wrapped so tight.  Remember I joined the JBS because it was an informational org. and religion was not discussed during meetings otherwise you'd get off on tangents.  That's not to say that you could not talk to non-Catholics afterwards and try to shed some truth about Catholicism on them.    
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: MauricePinay on November 18, 2010, 02:11:26 PM
The JBS was funded and co-founded by the same Koch family empire that controls the kosher Tea Party.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Alexandria on November 18, 2010, 02:14:22 PM
Quote from: MauricePinay
The JBS was funded and co-founded by the same Koch family empire that controls the kosher Tea Party.


What is their point in being involved in every traditional chapel?  Control?  Keeping tabs on them?
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Dawn on November 18, 2010, 02:59:48 PM
Quote from: Thorn
So, Dawn, you will only get your information from Catholic sources?  You therefore don't read secular newspapers or magazines?  I can see that in a cloister or monastery, but not for a layman.  I also can see not going to Bible study groups with non-Catholics or even going to the Y for anything and giving them money.  I know you don't like my opinions, but I don't think Christ wants his soldiers in the world wrapped so tight.  Remember I joined the JBS because it was an informational org. and religion was not discussed during meetings otherwise you'd get off on tangents.  That's not to say that you could not talk to non-Catholics afterwards and try to shed some truth about Catholicism on them.    


Actually no, I do not read any newspapers save the Four Marks. And, I read no magazines either. I listen to the headlines at the top of the hour on my radio, and listen while I cook dinner to Catholic Radio, but that only to see what errors I will have to fight when my family members still trapped in the Novus Ordo come calling.
There is no newspaper or television news program that is not owned by the enemies of Christ so why would I bother with that?
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: MauricePinay on November 18, 2010, 05:01:55 PM
Quote from: Alexandria
Quote from: MauricePinay
The JBS was funded and co-founded by the same Koch family empire that controls the kosher Tea Party.


What is their point in being involved in every traditional chapel?  Control?  Keeping tabs on them?


JBS influences traditional chapels for the purpose of neutralizing the Gospel.

Consider the following passages from the Gospel:
Quote

And the Pharisees going out, immediately made a consultation with the Herodians against [Jesus], how they might destroy him. (Mark 3;6)

Then the Pharisees going, consulted among themselves how to insnare [Jesus] in his speech. (Matthew 22;15)

The chief priests therefore, and the Pharisees, gathered a council, and said: What do we, for this man doth many miracles? If we let him alone so, all will believe in him; and the Romans will come, and take away our place and nation ... From that day therefore they devised to put him to death. (John 11;47-53)

Then went one of the twelve, who was called Judas Iscariot, to the chief priests, And said to them: What will you give me, and I will deliver him unto you? But they appointed him thirty pieces of silver. And from thenceforth he sought opportunity to betray him. (Matthew 26;14-16)

And when morning was come, all the chief priests and ancients of the people took counsel against Jesus, that they might put him to death. And they brought him bound, and delivered him to Pontius Pilate the governor ... he knew that for envy they had delivered him. (Matthew 27;1-2, 18)

[T]he chief priests and ancients persuaded the people, that they should ask for Barabbas, and take Jesus away. And the governor answering, said to them: Whether will you of the two to be released unto you? But they said, Barabbas. Pilate saith to them: What shall I do then with Jesus that is called Christ? They say all: Let him be crucified. (Matthew 27;20-22)


This is a real conspiracy. It's THE conspiracy. God was incarnated and walked among us so that we might know the truth and have salvation but men plotted against and killed Him. These plotters and executioners of our Lord have ideological heirs who live among us today who plot against the Gospel as much as their forefathers. But the JBS has nothing to say about this conspiracy. In fact, it calls these conspirators "friends" and "allies."

[Then] Fr. Kelley wrote a book in 1974 for the JBS publishing house titled, Conspiracy Against God and Man which barely mentions Jesus and the Gospel except to make Him a witness against "the great collectivist conspiracy." It doesn't mention the synagogue's conspiracy against Jesus. It doesn't mention the Pharisees or their heirs at all. It doesn't mention the financial backers of "the great collectivist conspiracy." It makes Karl Marx to be a "Jew"-hater. It's a work of misdirection.

This is the objective of the JBS, to tie-up, misdirect and neutralize opposition to the root conspiracy and even further, transform people who should be the opposition into servants of "our best friend and ally 'Israel.'" (http://www.jbs.org/jbs-news-feed/3722)

Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Alexandria on November 18, 2010, 05:07:45 PM
Quote from: MauricePinay
Quote from: Alexandria
Quote from: MauricePinay
The JBS was funded and co-founded by the same Koch family empire that controls the kosher Tea Party.


What is their point in being involved in every traditional chapel?  Control?  Keeping tabs on them?


JBS influences traditional chapels for the purpose of neutralizing the Gospel.

Consider the following passages from the Gospel:
Quote

And the Pharisees going out, immediately made a consultation with the Herodians against [Jesus], how they might destroy him. (Mark 3;6)

Then the Pharisees going, consulted among themselves how to insnare [Jesus] in his speech. (Matthew 22;15)

The chief priests therefore, and the Pharisees, gathered a council, and said: What do we, for this man doth many miracles? If we let him alone so, all will believe in him; and the Romans will come, and take away our place and nation ... From that day therefore they devised to put him to death. (John 11;47-53)

Then went one of the twelve, who was called Judas Iscariot, to the chief priests, And said to them: What will you give me, and I will deliver him unto you? But they appointed him thirty pieces of silver. And from thenceforth he sought opportunity to betray him. (Matthew 26;14-16)

And when morning was come, all the chief priests and ancients of the people took counsel against Jesus, that they might put him to death. And they brought him bound, and delivered him to Pontius Pilate the governor ... he knew that for envy they had delivered him. (Matthew 27;1-2, 18)

[T]he chief priests and ancients persuaded the people, that they should ask for Barabbas, and take Jesus away. And the governor answering, said to them: Whether will you of the two to be released unto you? But they said, Barabbas. Pilate saith to them: What shall I do then with Jesus that is called Christ? They say all: Let him be crucified. (Matthew 27;20-22)


This is a real conspiracy. It's THE conspiracy. God was incarnated and walked among us so that we might know the truth and have salvation but men plotted against and killed Him. These plotters and executioners of our Lord have ideological heirs who live among us today who plot against the Gospel as much as their forefathers. But the JBS has nothing to say about this conspiracy. In fact, it calls these conspirators "friends" and "allies."

[Then] Fr. Kelley wrote a book in 1974 for the JBS publishing house titled, Conspiracy Against God and Man which barely mentions Jesus and the Gospel except to make Him a witness against "the great collectivist conspiracy." It doesn't mention the synagogue's conspiracy against Jesus. It doesn't mention the Pharisees or their heirs at all. It doesn't mention the financial backers of "the great collectivist conspiracy." It makes Karl Marx to be a "Jew"-hater. It's a work of misdirection.

This is the objective of the JBS, to tie-up, misdirect and neutralize opposition to the root conspiracy and even further, transform people who should be the opposition into servants of "our best friend and ally 'Israel.'" (http://www.jbs.org/jbs-news-feed/3722)



It is all over though --  no matter which group you go to - in or out of the church.   I have to say that it is worse in the novus ordo church.  However, one would expect more from traditional chapels.

What is a Catholic to do?  If you would rather not answer me here, please PM me.  

One more thing and I don't know how to word this without getting my head taken off by some board members.  Does this "be nice, be kind, be loving" campaign that I hear so much about ad nauseum tie in with what you are saying?  I always thought of that as a a neutralizer.  Not that we shouldn't be all of those things, but there is a time to fight and not be so nice, kind and loving.  
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Elizabeth on November 18, 2010, 05:36:02 PM
JBS is worse in the N.O.?  Or the the "being nice"?
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Alexandria on November 18, 2010, 05:40:11 PM
You know, Elizabeth, you were one of the people here that I had in mind when I wrote that.  Leave it to you to misunderstand me.

Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: MauricePinay on November 18, 2010, 05:44:05 PM
I can only say to pray for the graces to bear the difficulties that a life lived according to the Gospel entails, today as much as ever. The world is hostile to the Gospel and traditionalist groups to varying degrees are no exception.

Trust and fear God more than these men.

 

Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Elizabeth on November 18, 2010, 05:50:04 PM
Quote from: Alexandria
You know, Elizabeth, you were one of the people here that I had in mind when I wrote that.  Leave it to you to misunderstand me.


I have no idea what you are talking about, Alexandria.  I am very sorry if I have offended you; it was certainly not my intention.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Alexandria on November 18, 2010, 05:52:01 PM
Quote from: Elizabeth
Quote from: Alexandria
You know, Elizabeth, you were one of the people here that I had in mind when I wrote that.  Leave it to you to misunderstand me.


I have no idea what you are talking about, Alexandria.  I am very sorry if I have offended you; it was certainly not my intention.


You didn't offend me.

Let's just leave it at that.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: innocenza on November 18, 2010, 06:52:03 PM
All questions are questions of religion.  You cannot compartmentalize reality.  (Even that sellout, the NJ lawyer Ferrara, has so stated.)

Any kind of activity that disguises or masks or distracts from our acknowledgment of this central truth is BAD, and ultimately leads nowhere but to our own destruction.

This is what operations like the JBS want to do, and have had great success in doing.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Telesphorus on November 18, 2010, 07:15:11 PM
Quote from: innocenza
All questions are questions of religion.  You cannot compartmentalize reality.  (Even that sellout, the NJ lawyer Ferrara, has so stated.)

Any kind of activity that disguises or masks or distracts from our acknowledgment of this central truth is BAD, and ultimately leads nowhere but to our own destruction.

This is what operations like the JBS want to do, and have had great success in doing.


Very well put.

Whenever, in a common enterprise with unbelievers, the Faith is shoved to the backburner, it eventually calls into question our commitment to our Faith.  It tends to lead to a kind of masonic style of indifferentism.  Particularly in an organization that deals with very serious matters pertaining to history and the organization of the world, and politics objectives related to morality.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Alexandria on November 18, 2010, 07:33:45 PM
Quote from: Telesphorus
Quote from: innocenza
All questions are questions of religion.  You cannot compartmentalize reality.  (Even that sellout, the NJ lawyer Ferrara, has so stated.)

Any kind of activity that disguises or masks or distracts from our acknowledgment of this central truth is BAD, and ultimately leads nowhere but to our own destruction.

This is what operations like the JBS want to do, and have had great success in doing.


Very well put.

Whenever, in a common enterprise with unbelievers, the Faith is shoved to the backburner, it eventually calls into question our commitment to our Faith.  It tends to lead to a kind of masonic style of indifferentism.  Particularly in an organization that deals with very serious matters pertaining to history and the organization of the world, and politics objectives related to morality.


Tele's comment is what I meant when I wrote that it is worse in the novus ordo - neutralizing.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Dawn on November 18, 2010, 08:12:13 PM
I know what you mean. If you speak of the heresy of Americanism you are called mean spirited. If you call someone a New-Con you are labeling and hateful. If you point out that someone like Spellman was a homosexual and THIS DOES HAVE AN IMPACT ON THE STATE OF THE NOVUS TODAY, you are a hate monger.
Yes, Maurice mentioned that the JBS helps to neutralize the Gospel. So, that all that is left is a bunch of programmed namby pambies running around stating that love is the answer. Well, Love is the answer and that is the perfect love of Christ. But, the watering down part comes in when they dwell on that and forget God is perfect justice as well. You see, they hate that pesty idea that they must convert to the True Faith.
And, that is why I say again the most dangerous persons around are those that call themselves Traditional Catholics but spread the truth with a nice dose of poison.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Thorn on November 18, 2010, 10:43:31 PM
Since Alex Jones neglects to push for the Social Reign of Christ the King in his reporting, according to Dawn we can't listen to him, anymore than we can listen to the voting record of Congressmen at the JBS.
No need to reply to this.  It's a rhetorical statement if you will.
I realize what the retort should be, but just wanted to show how frustrating this whole discussion has been.

I think Dawn meant Neo-Con.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Dawn on November 19, 2010, 05:32:14 AM
Neo is a prefix signaling a "new" form or a revival of an old one.

Thank you to Thorn for showing us just what type of persons JBS helps form.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Telesphorus on November 19, 2010, 06:54:36 AM
Quote from: Thorn
Since Alex Jones neglects to push for the Social Reign of Christ the King in his reporting, according to Dawn we can't listen to him, anymore than we can listen to the voting record of Congressmen at the JBS.


I don't think anyone said to disregard what the JBS says- just to realize that its objectives and organization are not Catholic.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Belloc on November 19, 2010, 08:08:51 AM
Quote from: Telesphorus
Quote from: Thorn
Since Alex Jones neglects to push for the Social Reign of Christ the King in his reporting, according to Dawn we can't listen to him, anymore than we can listen to the voting record of Congressmen at the JBS.


I don't think anyone said to disregard what the JBS says- just to realize that its objectives and organization are not Catholic.


True, both JBS and Alex Jones can have elements of truth in their work and Jones is at least good exposing many things going on, the solution and where to go with that is of course, for the Catholic, Social Reign......
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Alexandria on November 19, 2010, 12:14:01 PM
Thorn, two days ago you wrote this:

Quote
Alexandria, I don't want to start another thread because I've said all I'm going to say about the JBS.


Why are you still here?
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: innocenza on November 19, 2010, 09:05:25 PM
Dawn, Alexandria --  :applause:
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: DoubtingThomas on January 26, 2011, 04:12:01 AM
This is a very interesting thread. I am curious about the answers to the central topic of this thread.

Both "Construction Workers" and "Christ-Deniers-Social-Revolutionaries" do things secretly by stages.

That means they would have many organizations pushing forward different plans from their agenda.

Obviously, JBS did move (or tried to move) the Traditionalist Movement from a Point A to a Point B. Once they achieved this, or once their cover was exposed, they morphed into something different.

Now, they probably push another plan from their Agenda, someone mentioned it relates more to Mormons today.

This Question is very important, and we, Traditional Catholics, need clear answers.

There was an infiltration, yes. What did they achieve?

We need to know...

Are we being infiltrated by another group like the Former-JBS today?

We must be vigilant.

I am putting an Ignore on Thorn. Thanks to everybody else.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Catholic Samurai on January 26, 2011, 10:31:09 AM
I think as long as we have Trads obsessed with Dogmatic Constitutionalism or GOP fandom, an "infiltraition" of this variety isnt that big of a deal. It only works to secure their gains by keeping the obstinate or dimwitted busy.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: DoubtingThomas on January 27, 2011, 11:22:22 AM
I have a question, and I don't want anybody to get offended with it.

Are there any parallels between:

A) The relationship or influence that JBS might have had over the Traditionalist Catholic Movement, and...

B) The relationship or influence that the Knights of Columbus might have had over Novus Ordo Catholicism?

I just need your opinions, thanks in advance.

DT.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Elizabeth on January 27, 2011, 11:51:34 AM
From what I have gleaned by reading Randy Engel, it looks as if some American bishops in the Collective have done more harm than almost anyone.

As far as I can tell, the Knights of Columbus had a good, anti-mason beginning.  The gradual modernism, and hot spots of trouble, would occur as a result of the corruption of the US Bishops (can't remember-USSCB? )

I think there may be more problem with white supremist groups that JBS--unless they are also into that philosophy?
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Catholic Samurai on January 27, 2011, 05:55:08 PM
Quote from: Elizabeth

I think there may be more problem with white supremist groups that JBS--unless they are also into that philosophy?


I haven't heard or read anywhere about the possibility of the JBS hierarchy being involved with any kind of white-supremacy. Unless anything surfaces that favors the idea, I wouldn't consider it and just stick with the known facts.

A number of the people I met from there didnt seem too fond of the Spanish (for obvious reasons). lol
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Catholic Samurai on January 27, 2011, 06:00:10 PM
Quote from: DoubtingThomas
I have a question, and I don't want anybody to get offended with it.

Are there any parallels between:

A) The relationship or influence that JBS might have had over the Traditionalist Catholic Movement, and...



I dont know about other Traditional groups, or the majority of SSPXers for that matter. But the SSPX hierarchy have all been (philosophically) students of Fr.Fahey and +Lefebvre, not John Birch.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Telesphorus on January 27, 2011, 06:31:25 PM
Quote from: Catholic Samurai
Quote from: DoubtingThomas
I have a question, and I don't want anybody to get offended with it.

Are there any parallels between:

A) The relationship or influence that JBS might have had over the Traditionalist Catholic Movement, and...



I dont know about other Traditional groups, or the majority of SSPXers for that matter. But the SSPX hierarchy have all been (philosophically) students of Fr.Fahey and +Lefebvre, not John Birch.


John Birch was a Protestant missionary who was murdered by the Red Chinese.

The founder of the SSPX was Robert Welch.

But the recent leader McManus was an SSPX chapel goer.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: roscoe on January 27, 2011, 06:34:07 PM
The founder of SSPX was Robert Welch??
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Telesphorus on January 27, 2011, 06:34:42 PM
Quote from: roscoe
The founder of SSPX was Robert Welch??


Good catch roscoe.  The founder of the JBS was Robert Welch.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Catholic Samurai on January 27, 2011, 06:36:18 PM
Quote from: Telesphorus
Quote from: Catholic Samurai
Quote from: DoubtingThomas
I have a question, and I don't want anybody to get offended with it.

Are there any parallels between:

A) The relationship or influence that JBS might have had over the Traditionalist Catholic Movement, and...



I dont know about other Traditional groups, or the majority of SSPXers for that matter. But the SSPX hierarchy have all been (philosophically) students of Fr.Fahey and +Lefebvre, not John Birch.


...

The founder of the SSPX was Robert Welch.

....


....... uh... dont you mean +Lefebvre?

EDIT: Nevermind. Mistake found and corrected (before posting it seems). lol
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: DoubtingThomas on January 28, 2011, 12:23:28 AM
I think, I did not formulate my question in the proper way...

I have been reading two threads about the JBS, two threads about the K o C, and a thread about Americanism.

Reducing my question to the USA, and excluding the FSSPX/SSPX from the picture...

Have the JBS spread Americanism among Catholic Traditionalists (excluding SSPXers) in the USA?

After reading the threads about the K o C, I was under the impression that they had done exactly the same with the Novus Ordo Catholics in the USA. Am I wrong about that?

Like I said, these are questions, not statements. I'm asking because I want to know, no offence intended.

Cheers,

DT.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Telesphorus on January 28, 2011, 12:12:48 PM
Americanism is rife among traditional Catholics.

Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: DoubtingThomas on January 29, 2011, 02:31:52 AM
Quote from: Catholic Samurai
Quote from: Elizabeth

I think there may be more problem with white supremist groups that JBS--unless they are also into that philosophy?


I haven't heard or read anywhere about the possibility of the JBS hierarchy being involved with any kind of white-supremacy. Unless anything surfaces that favors the idea, I wouldn't consider it and just stick with the known facts.

A number of the people I met from there didnt seem too fond of the Spanish (for obvious reasons). lol


It is not too much trouble...  could you please tell me what the reasons are?

I am asking you because I am not from the USA, and I have never lived/been there, so things are not quite obvious to me.

When you said the Spanish, you mean:

a) the people from Spain?

b) or the Spanish speaking immigrants inside the USA?
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: roscoe on January 29, 2011, 11:33:35 AM
How can Americanism( a modernist heresy) be 'rife' among Trad Catholics( the anti-thesis of modernism)?
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Catholic Samurai on January 29, 2011, 12:47:00 PM
Quote from: DoubtingThomas
Quote from: Catholic Samurai
Quote from: Elizabeth

I think there may be more problem with white supremist groups that JBS--unless they are also into that philosophy?


I haven't heard or read anywhere about the possibility of the JBS hierarchy being involved with any kind of white-supremacy. Unless anything surfaces that favors the idea, I wouldn't consider it and just stick with the known facts.

A number of the people I met from there didnt seem too fond of the Spanish (for obvious reasons). lol


It is not too much trouble...  could you please tell me what the reasons are?

I am asking you because I am not from the USA, and I have never lived/been there, so things are not quite obvious to me.

When you said the Spanish, you mean:

a) the people from Spain?

b) or the Spanish speaking immigrants inside the USA?


I didnt mean to imply that they were racially prejudiced. I was just taking a little jab at their protestant viewpoint of the Spanish.

What they seem opposed to is the Spanish legacy of "tyranny" and they seemed to put an emphasis on the Spanish providing the market for the slave trade (which they failed to mention was being run by the Ducth and English) and place them in the category of despotic nations like Napoleonic France. In their opinion, Monarchy is a more tyrannical form of government than Communism (the adult Capitalism)... they consider Monarchy to be "Far Left Wing".

But really, what are a bunch of AngloSaxon Protestanst and Mormon pagans going to like about a Catholic Empire like Spain?
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Catholic Samurai on January 29, 2011, 12:56:58 PM
Quote from: Telesphorus
Americanism is rife among traditional Catholics.



It's only natural for a foreign people (regardless of their origin) to adapt the philosophy of the nation they are inhabiting. You notice how often God stresses a strict separation/segregation of the Israelites from the pagan people inhabiting Palestine at that time... considering how they turned out as soon as they settled in that area showed why. They adapted the religion and went so far as to adopt the customs of the pagans. This is why God ordered the Israelites to destroy everyone and everything of the pagans "...Or I shall make them to be a thorn in your side", because whoever and whatever was left behind would return to influence them somehow.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: DoubtingThomas on January 29, 2011, 01:00:42 PM
Quote from: Catholic Samurai
I didnt mean to imply that they were racially prejudiced. I was just taking a little jab at their protestant viewpoint of the Spanish.

What they seem opposed to is the Spanish legacy of "tyranny" and they seemed to put an emphasis on the Spanish providing the market for the slave trade (which they failed to mention was being run by the Ducth and English) and place them in the category of despotic nations like Napoleonic France. In their opinion, Monarchy is a more tyrannical form of government than Communism (the adult Capitalism)... they consider Monarchy to be "Far Left Wing".

But really, what are a bunch of AngloSaxon Protestanst and Mormon pagans going to like about a Catholic Empire like Spain?


Thanks for the clarification. I think I read somewhere the term "W.A.S.P. Mentality", now I get the point.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Catholic Samurai on January 29, 2011, 01:11:53 PM
Quote from: DoubtingThomas
Quote from: Catholic Samurai
Quote from: Elizabeth

I think there may be more problem with white supremist groups that JBS--unless they are also into that philosophy?


I haven't heard or read anywhere about the possibility of the JBS hierarchy being involved with any kind of white-supremacy. Unless anything surfaces that favors the idea, I wouldn't consider it and just stick with the known facts.

A number of the people I met from there didnt seem too fond of the Spanish (for obvious reasons). lol


It is not too much trouble...  could you please tell me what the reasons are?

I am asking you because I am not from the USA, and I have never lived/been there, so things are not quite obvious to me.

When you said the Spanish, you mean:

a) the people from Spain?

b) or the Spanish speaking immigrants inside the USA?


If you wanna know about the USA (rather than the JBS or it's members), there is an undeniable prejudice here. I dont mean to say that everyone in America doesnt like Hispanics, but there is still a good percentage of the population that hates Hispanics. While today the negative feelings towards Hispanics (and I dont blame them) are caused by the atrocities of illegal Mexicans crossing the border and trading in drugs or taking advantage of the system. Most of those people crossing over from Mexico are desperate people seeking a better life for themselves in what they consider to be the land of opportunity. And why the hell should we blame them for wanting to come over here? WE THE AMERICANS MARKETED OURSELVES TO THE WORLD AS THE BASTION OF "LIBERTY" AND ECONOMIC SUCCESS! WHO THE HELL WOULDNT WANT TO COME HERE AND PARTAKE IN OUR "PURSUIT OF HAPINESS"?! However, with the stream of immigrants come the drug cartels, mercenaries, and social scum, who come to do whatever they want because they get a free pass in the name of "civil rights" while trampling over the rights of natural born citizens. And these are the people who are responsible for bad reputation that Latinos and Hispanics have. And while most Americans look down on Hispanics because of the immigration issue, there is still a good percentage that HATE Hispanics because they are Catholic. This sentiment has been ingrained into the Anglos since before the Mexican American War which was considered a Protestant crusade against the Catholics and was nurtured by the KuKluxKlan, which is still alive and well today, though their influence is exaggerated by liberals in order to demonize Whites.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: DoubtingThomas on January 29, 2011, 01:28:09 PM
Quote from: Catholic Samurai
If you wanna know about the USA (rather than the JBS or it's members), there is an undeniable prejudice here. I dont mean to say that everyone in America doesnt like Hispanics, but there is still a good percentage of the population that hates Hispanics. While today the negative feelings towards Hispanics (and I dont blame them) are caused by the atrocities of illegal Mexicans crossing the border and trading in drugs or taking advantage of the system. Most of those people crossing over from Mexico are desperate people seeking a better life for themselves in what they consider to be the land of opportunity. And why the hell should we blame them for wanting to come over here? WE THE AMERICANS MARKETED OURSELVES TO THE WORLD AS THE BASTION OF "LIBERTY" AND ECONOMIC SUCCESS! WHO THE HELL WOULDNT WANT TO COME HERE AND PARTAKE IN OUR "PURSUIT OF HAPINESS"?! However, with the stream of immigrants come the drug cartels, mercenaries, and social scum, who come to do whatever they want because they get a free pass in the name of "civil rights" while trampling over the rights of natural born citizens. And these are the people who are responsible for bad reputation that Latinos and Hispanics have. And while most Americans look down on Hispanics because of the immigration issue, there is still a good percentage that HATE Hispanics because they are Catholic. This sentiment has been ingrained into the Anglos since before the Mexican American War which was considered a Protestant crusade against the Catholics and was nurtured by the KuKluxKlan, which is still alive and well today, though their influence is exaggerated by liberals in order to demonize Whites.


You know...  There is a thing I was thinking about when I wrote my first Question on this Thread...

I am from South America, and I never knew anything about the SSPX, or Catholic Traditionalism before the existence of the Internet.

I am wondering why people from my family and friends (who are very devout Catholics) still today ignore that it exists, and all what it means.

Is like we never got the memo...
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: roscoe on January 29, 2011, 03:25:24 PM
The biggest prob with Mexicans is that they shouldn't let the Judaix media( and it's 'Latino' dupes like the Sanchez sisters, X Hermasillo, Mario Obledo etc) brainwash them into believing that the Gringo( Spaniards are Gringos) is 'racist' ( it never stops). There is No Such Thing as a 'racist'.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: DoubtingThomas on January 29, 2011, 03:37:07 PM
Quote from: roscoe
The biggest prob with Mexicans is that they shouldn't let the Judaix media( and it's 'Latino' dupes like the Sanchez sisters, X Hermasillo and Mario Obledo) brainwash them into believing that the Gringo( Spaniards are Gringos) is 'racist' ( it never stops). There is No Such Thing as a 'racist'.


Well, I was not thinking about racism. Not racism per se.

I was thinking about the spread of Catholic Traditionalism on the Spanish Speaking World.

I was wondering, if groups like JBS and KoC did slow down the spread of Catholic Traditionalism in Latin America.

Even today, after the arrival of the Internet, there is only one Catholic Forum like this one, and Traditionalism is not as popular as it may be on angelqueen, fisheaters, or here.

There is an obvious delay, and I am wondering how did it happen.

I believe once the problem is identified, it is possible to work on solutions.

That is why I am asking you all those questions.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: St Jude Thaddeus on January 30, 2011, 05:36:28 PM
Quote from: DoubtingThomas
You know...  There is a thing I was thinking about when I wrote my first Question on this Thread...

I am from South America, and I never knew anything about the SSPX, or Catholic Traditionalism before the existence of the Internet.

I am wondering why people from my family and friends (who are very devout Catholics) still today ignore that it exists, and all what it means.

Is like we never got the memo...


Traditionalism in Latin America is growing....Here are some links for anyone who is interested:

http://radiocristiandad.wordpress.com/
http://devocioncatolica.blogspot.com/
http://creerenmexico.org/
http://cruzamante.blogspot.com/
http://www.carlismo.es/

Each one of these links to many others. The word is getting out, little by little. I think that one of the reasons that Traditionalism did not take hold here as quickly as in the Anglo-Franco-German speaking world is because here the post Vatican II changes were less abrupt, especially in older barrios and small towns. The statues were not trashed, the interiors of the churches were not gutted, the Rosary continued to be recited, and the Stations of the Cross performed on Good Friday, etc., and so the people here did not see the revolution for what it really was. The Internet, and the out-of-control expansion of the "Evangelical" cults, has changed all that.
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: DoubtingThomas on February 02, 2011, 01:31:00 PM
Quote from: St Jude Thaddeus
Traditionalism in Latin America is growing....Here are some links for anyone who is interested:

http://radiocristiandad.wordpress.com/
http://devocioncatolica.blogspot.com/
http://creerenmexico.org/
http://cruzamante.blogspot.com/
http://www.carlismo.es/

Each one of these links to many others. The word is getting out, little by little. I think that one of the reasons that Traditionalism did not take hold here as quickly as in the Anglo-Franco-German speaking world is because here the post Vatican II changes were less abrupt, especially in older barrios and small towns. The statues were not trashed, the interiors of the churches were not gutted, the Rosary continued to be recited, and the Stations of the Cross performed on Good Friday, etc., and so the people here did not see the revolution for what it really was. The Internet, and the out-of-control expansion of the "Evangelical" cults, has changed all that.


Thanks a lot for the Links!  :-)
Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: Catholic Samurai on February 23, 2011, 04:01:48 PM

Back to the original topic.....



The Zionist Billionaires Who Control Politics

February 23, 2011

Lenin: "The best way to control the opposition is to lead it"


(Libertarian sugar daddy, David Koch)


Douglas Reed: "The plan, I think, is the old one of world dominion in a new form. The money-power and revolutionary power have been set up and given sham but symbolic shapes ('Capitalism' or 'Communism') and sharply defined citadels ('America' or 'Russia'). Such is the spectacle publicly staged for the masses. But what if similar men, with a common aim, secretly rule in both camps and propose to achieve their ambition through the clash between those masses? I believe any diligent student of our times will discover that this is the case."



by Henry Makow Ph.D.


Bloomberg News has a story today on how the Zionist Koch brothers bankrolled the campaigns of Governors (like Scott Walker) who are cutting union powers. This is an example of how these billionaires continue to define political discourse.  

The Sept 20, 2010 issue of The New Yorker  had a profile of David and Charles Koch, "The billionaire brothers who are waging a war against Obama."

According to the article by Jane Mayer,  the Koch's bankroll a plethora of Libertarian and "right-wing" lobbies, think tanks and foundations, which in turn fund and direct the "grass roots" Tea Party movement.

"The anti-government fervor infusing the 2010 elections represents a political triumph for the Kochs," she writes. "By giving money to "educate," fund, and organize Tea Party protesters, they have helped turn their private agenda into a mass movement."

Mayer neglects to mention that the Koch's are Jews or crypto Jews; instead she tries to give them a "goy gloss."

Patriarch Fred Koch, a founding member of the John Birch Society, was a "real John Wayne type." He was the son of a "Dutch" printer who emphasized "rugged pursuits.' He took his four sons "big game hunting in Africa" and made them do "farm labor at the family ranch."

Surprising then to learn that Fred and his sons are on  lists of Jewish billionaires, and "free-enterprise-Fred" made his fortune building refineries for the genocidal Communist dictator Josef Stalin in the 1930's.

Liberals whinge about these nefarious "red necks" who oppose Obamacare and climate change, and lobby for less taxes and government interference. But that's not the real story here.

sam_newhouse.jpg
(Sam Newhouse)

The real story is that Jane Meyer works for another Illuminati Jewish billionaire, publisher Sam Newhouse. Her job is to create the illusion of free democratic discourse. Between the Sam Newhouses  and George Soros' on the Left, and the Koch's and the Rupert Murdochs on the Right, a dozen Illuminati (Masonic) Jewish billionaires are able to define political discourse in America.

So while we're busy arguing about government intervention, we ignore the long list of things these billionaires apparently agree on: Israel, 9-11, the war on terror, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Federal Reserve, trillion dollar bank bailouts, liberal immigration policy and "equal rights" for gays and lesbians, i.e. undermining marriage and family by promoting homosexual norms. You can bet they also secretly agree on world government.
 

This is why nothing important changes. This is why crack dealer and bathhouse boy Barack Obama is our President. Why the conservative alternative is Wasilla AK Mayor Sarah Palin. The Billionaires of Zion are laughing up their sleeves at the goyim.

THE KOCH EMPIRE

Koch Industries is the second-largest private company in America after Cargill.  "With an annual revenue of $100 billion, the company was just $6.3 billion shy of first place in 2008. Ownership is kept strictly in the family, with the company being split roughly between brothers Charles and David Koch, who are worth about $20 billion apiece...Today, it operates thousands of miles of pipelines in the United States, refines 800,000 barrels of crude oil daily, buys and sells the most asphalt in the nation, is among the top 10 cattle producers, and is among the 50 largest landowners."

 According to the New Yorker, "the company has grown spectacularly since their father, Fred, died, in 1967, and the brothers took charge. The company expanded at an unreal rate: its revenues increased from $100 million in 1966 to $100 billion in 2008--that's 1,000-fold growth. The Koch's operate oil refineries in Alaska, Texas, and Minnesota, and control some four thousand miles of pipeline. Koch Industries owns Brawny paper towels, Dixie cups, Georgia-Pacific lumber, Stainmaster carpet, and Lycra, among other products."

According to researcher Yasha Levine, part of this growth was fueled by corruption: "William Koch, the third brother who had a falling-out with Charles and David back in the '80s over Charles' sociopathic management style, appeared on "60 Minutes" in November 2000 to tell the world that Koch Industries was a criminal enterprise: "It was - was my family company. I was out of it," he says. "But that's what appalled me so much... I did not want my family, my legacy, my father's legacy to be based upon organized crime."

"Charles Koch's racket was very simple," explained William. "With its extensive oil pipe network, Koch Industries' role as an oil middleman--it buys crude from someone's well and sells it to a refinery--makes it easy to steal millions of dollars worth of oil by skimming just a little off the top of each transaction, or what they call "cheating measurements" in the oil trade. According to William, wells located on federal and Native American lands were the prime targets of the Koch scam."

  http://www.scribd.com/doc/30006881/Koch-Steal-From-Indians

It is estimated they stole $230 million.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/tea_party_financiers_owe_their_fortune_to_joseph_stalin_20100418/

220px-Fred_Koch_225px.jpg


FRED KOCH AND THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY

Rich Illuminati Jews and Masons not only created Communism in Russia; they created anti-Communism in the USA.

Fred Koch (1900-1967) was a chemical engineer who invented a new process for refining oil. Supposedly, he was shut out of the US by the Rockefellers and had to go to work for Stalin. He built many refineries in Soviet Russia and trained Russian engineers to operate them. Supposedly, he became disillusioned with Communism and became a founding member of the John Birch Society in the 1950's.

The trouble is that according to the 1964-65, Edition of Who's Who, this militant anti-Communist was still building refineries in Russia and Eastern Europe. Moreover, the John Birch society was founded by members of the Council on Foreign Relations, many of whom were Masons, and staffed by former Communist writers.

For example, the founder Robert Welch had been a member of the Communist front "League for Industrial Democracy."  William Grede, for many years Chairman of the Executive Council of the JBS was a Fed banker. Robert Love, member of the Governing Council was a 32nd Degree Mason. William Macmillan was a member of the CFR. Writers Eugene Lyons and Harold Varney used to work for the Communist "Workers World." (Helen Peters, "Is the JBS Subversive?" July 1970)

Ralph Epperson was on their speaker's bureau.  But they expelled him from the JBS when he mentioned Freemasonry in one of his speeches somewhere.  The JBS strongly does not want Freemasonry mentioned.
According to Eustace Mullins, the founder Robert Welch was a 32nd Degree Mason.

Evidently, the same treatment applies to Zionism.    

POLITICS IS A CHARADE

Illuminati insider Harold Rosenthal explained how they pit labor (Left) versus management (Right):

 "In modern industry ... capital, which force we represent, is [at] the apex. Both management and labor are on the base of this triangle. They continually stand opposed to each other and their attention is never directed to the head of their problem."

"At first, by controlling the banking system we were able to control corporation capital. Through this, we acquired total monopoly of the movie industry, the radio networks and the newly developing television media. The printing industry, newspapers, periodicals and technical journals had already fallen into our hands. The richest plum was later to come when we took over the publication of all school materials. Through these vehicles we could mold public opinion to suit our own purposes. The people are only stupid pigs that grunt and squeal the chants we give them, whether they be truth or lies."

Thus the Illuminati have a monopoly over our minds. By controlling both Left and Right, education and the mass media, the Masonic Jewish billionaires ensure that the masses are tractable. As the late great Alan Stang warned, the Tea Party is a psy-op meant to channel the Patriot Movement into the Left VS Right matrix.

Politics is like a House League in sports. The different teams all are Masons or are beholden to them. Thus, there's little chance of democratic change. Anyone who wants to play must abide by the "rules."

It's amusing to see "progressives" rail against the Tea Party and their sponsors. They are as much billionaire puppets as the rednecks they condemn.

The Illuminati Jewish billionaires have used "anti-Semitism" to give themselves immunity from criticism. However, they are responsible for anti-Semitism and for the suffering of their fellow Jews. Therefore, they don't deserve such consideration.  

Title: THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
Post by: IrishUkrainian on March 10, 2011, 08:13:48 PM
I'm pretty sure the John Birch Society was an LDS invention.  Of course not all its members are LDS, but it's very Mormon-oriented.