Author Topic: The Holy Office does not Understand What Trent Taught (Read 1087 times)

Lover of Truth · « **on:** September 24, 2013, 07:43:10 AM »

In His infinite mercy God has willed that the effects, necessary for one to be saved, of those helps to salvation which are directed towards man’s final end, not by intrinsic necessity [this is what I have mentioned over and over again but the Feeneyites never grant the point], but only by divine institution, can also be obtained in certain circuмstances when these helps are used only in intention or desire (ubi voto solummodo vel desiderio adhibeantur). This we see clearly stated in the Sacred Council of Trent, both with reference to the sacrament of regeneration and with reference to the sacrament of penance.

Hello?

Jehanne · « **Reply #1 on:** September 24, 2013, 07:55:18 AM »

Quote

Whereas you, Galileo, son of the late Vincenzio Galilei, of Florence, aged seventy years, were denounced in 1615, to this Holy Office, for holding as true a false doctrine taught by many, namely, that the sun is immovable in the center of the world, and that the earth moves, and also with a diurnal motion; also, for having pupils whom you instructed in the same opinions; also, for maintaining a correspondence on the same with some German mathematicians; also for publishing certain letters on the sun-spots, in which you developed the same doctrine as true; also, for answering the objections which were continually produced from the Holy Scriptures, by glozing the said Scriptures according to your own meaning; and whereas thereupon was produced the copy of a writing, in form of a letter professedly written by you to a person formerly your pupil, in which, following the hypothesis of Copernicus, you include several propositions contrary to the true sense and authority of the Holy Scriptures; therefore (this Holy Tribunal being desirous of providing against the disorder and mischief which were thence proceeding and increasing to the detriment of the Holy Faith) by the desire of his Holiness and the Most Emminent Lords, Cardinals of this supreme and universal Inquisition, the two propositions of the stability of the sun, and the motion of the earth, were qualified by the Theological Qualifiers as follows:

The proposition that the sun is in the center of the world and immovable from its place is absurd, philosophically false, and formally heretical; because it is expressly contrary to Holy Scriptures.

The proposition that the earth is not the center of the world, nor immovable, but that it moves, and also with a diurnal action, is also absurd, philosophically false, and, theologically considered, at least erroneous in faith.

Therefore . . . , invoking the most holy name of our Lord Jesus Christ and of His Most Glorious Mother Mary, We pronounce this Our final sentence: We pronounce, judge, and declare, that you, the said Galileo . . . have rendered yourself vehemently suspected by this Holy Office of heresy, that is, of having believed and held the doctrine (which is false and contrary to the Holy and Divine Scriptures) that the sun is the center of the world, and that it does not move from east to west, and that the earth does move, and is not the center of the world; also, that an opinion can be held and supported as probable, after it has been declared and finally decreed contrary to the Holy Scripture, and, consequently, that you have incurred all the censures and penalties enjoined and promulgated in the sacred canons and other general and particular constituents against delinquents of this description. From which it is Our pleasure that you be absolved, provided that with a sincere heart and unfeigned faith, in Our presence, you abjure, curse, and detest, the said error and heresies, and every other error and heresy contrary to the Catholic and Apostolic Church of Rome.

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1630galileo.asp

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #2 on:** September 24, 2013, 07:57:51 AM »

In its own way, the same thing must be said about the Church, insofar as the Church itself is a general help to salvation. Therefore, in order that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member, but it is required that at least he be united to it by intention and desire.

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #3 on:** September 24, 2013, 08:00:24 AM »

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ldolphin.org%2Fgeocentricity%2FDaly.pdf&ei=aIxBUsCKDurK2gW09IDoDg&usg=AFQjCNEaam8qHS2Tf4v9CP82dNiVpUjnEg&sig2=RjsuvZN9t200V7DKUal6Fg&bvm=bv.52434380,d.b2I

Hopefully the above will link you to:

The Theological Status of Heliocentrism
by John Daly

bowler · « **Reply #4 on:** September 24, 2013, 08:03:21 AM »

Yet another imbecilic thread on BOD by "Lover of Truth"!!!

The so-called Holy Office letter of 1949 had no AAS number, it was never seen by the public till years later after the death of the person who wrote it. It was done under the reign of Pius XII.

On the other hand, the BOD Hyprocrite who started this thread rejects the Holy Week Mass changes promulgated by Pius XII directly. If he had done that during the reign of Pius XII, he would have been excommunicated in one second flat! You'd think that people who live in glass houses would not throw stones, and you'd be right if you were talking about people with common sense.

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I have come to the conclusion that it is pointless to discuss these, relatively speaking, insignificant excuses of baptism of desire of the catechumen and Baptism of Blood, when these BOD Hypocrites really don't believe that baptism nor martyrdom for Christ are even necessary for salvation. They believe that anyone who is unbaptized can be saved, even if they have no explicit desire to be Catholics, or belief in the Trinity and the Incarnation.

I say, what is the point of telling them that they are swallowing fleas when they are swallowing the whole camel?

Fr. Scott, like Bishop Fellay, and many other SSPX priests strain a gnat and swallow a camel on the issue of "BOD". They attack those who believe John 3:5 as it is written, yet they believe that someone unbaptized can be saved even if they have no explicit desire to be a Catholic or belief in the Trinity or the Incarnation (which is opposed to ALL the Fathers, Doctors Saints and the Athanasian Creed).

Anyone with common sense should ask themselves, what is worse?,

-to believe John 3:5 literally, which is a revelation from God that the Fathers unanimously believed literally: "Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God".

- or to believe that someone unbaptized can be saved even if they have no explicit desire to be a Catholic or belief in the Trinity or the Incarnation (which is opposed to ALL the Fathers, Doctors Saints and the Athanasian Creed).

Jehanne · « **Reply #5 on:** September 24, 2013, 08:05:15 AM »

Quote from: Lover of Truth

In its own way, the same thing must be said about the Church, insofar as the Church itself is a general help to salvation. Therefore, in order that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member, but it is required that at least he be united to it by intention and desire.

To be a member of the Catholic Church, one must have canonical standing within the Catholic Church. Therefore, an infant who is baptized in a heretical Lutheran sect by a heretic Lutheran minister is not a member of the Catholic Church (he/she lacks canonical standing within the Church), yet if that very same infant dies before the Age of Reason, they will go to Heaven, which is life eternal, in virtue of their valid Baptism. Such is de fide.

Again, the Holy Office Letter nowhere talks about Baptism nor does it ever state that one may enter Heaven, life eternal, without Baptism!

bowler · « **Reply #6 on:** September 24, 2013, 08:05:39 AM »

The BOD Hypocrites are all about inconsistencies, they debate using St. Thomas against the believers in the literal reading of John 3:5, but they reject St. Thomas, the Athansian Creed, ALL the Fathers, Saints, and doctors in their belief that an unbaptized person can be saved even if they have no explicit desire to be a Catholic, nor belief in the Incarnation nor the Trinity.

They reject the Holy Week Mass changes promulgated directly by Pius XII, yet they adhere to the idea that Fr. Feeney was legitimately excommunicated because it was "under the reign" of Pius XII.

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #7 on:** September 24, 2013, 08:34:34 AM »

The Feeneyites accept Dogma's i.e. their own warped understanding of them.

But ignore the infallible teaching of the ordinary magisterium if it does not conform to their warped understanding of Dogma.

The Feeneyites are like Protestants.

They insist on their grave errors which are harmful to the Church more than anything else.

The sources of these shenanigans is a combination of Satan spurring them on and their own pride.

The bad-willed Feeneyites on the day of Judgement will find themselves outside the Church because they willfully reject the teachings of the Catholic Church. They will be desperate for their desire to save them but their own condemnatory attitude toward all of good will, and who through no fault of their own did not get baptized, will condemn them. They will be judged by the same measuring stick they used to judge ALL others who were not baptized through no fault of their own. God will have a special place reserved for them if there grave error is willful i.e. is a result of an inexcusable ignorance.

What are we to think of those who have had the truth clearly presented to them over and over again but continue to reject it?

They are either willfully blind or . . . ? Well we just have to pray for them. But we cannot be silent in the midst of the errors which they continue to spout on Catholic forums where people go to make sense of all the confusion, not to get even more confused, and to find Catholic Truth in a world gone mad.

Come Holy Ghost and fill the hearts of the faithful and enkindle in them the fire of Thy love. Send forth Thy Spirit and they shall be created and Thou shall renew the face of the earth. Let us pray. Oh God, Who did instruct the hearts of the faithful by the light of the Holy Ghost, grant that by the same Spirit we may be always truly wise and ever to rejoice in His consolation through the same Christ our Lord. Amen.

Dear sweet Mary, Blessed Joseph her most chaste spouse, all ye angels and all ye saints, please pray with us through Christ our Lord.

God our Father we offer Thee the most Precious Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ our Lord, along with all the Masses that have been offered, are being offered, and will be offered throughout the world with these prayers for the conversion of the good willed Feeneyites and for the softening of the hearts of those who are of bad will. Gather them all within your Church as a hen would gather her brood so that they be within the Church as members who accept all that Thou teaches through Your most Holy Catholic Church.

Dear sweet Guardian Angels please go the Guardian Angels of the Feeneyites and beseech them to soften and enlighten the hearts of the Feeneyites so that they may be fully united with all the true Catholic throughout the world.

Angels of God our Guardians dear, to whom God's love commits us here, ever this day, be at our side, to light, to guard, to rule and guide. Amen.

Ave Maria, gratia plena, Dominus tecuм. Benedicta tu in mulieribus, et benedictus fructus ventris tui, Jesus. Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, ora pro nobis peccatoribus, nunc et in hora mortis nostrae. Amen.

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #8 on:** September 24, 2013, 08:35:39 AM »

Quote from: Jehanne

Quote from: Lover of Truth
In its own way, the same thing must be said about the Church, insofar as the Church itself is a general help to salvation. Therefore, in order that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member, but it is required that at least he be united to it by intention and desire.

To be a member of the Catholic Church, one must have canonical standing within the Catholic Church. Therefore, an infant who is baptized in a heretical Lutheran sect by a heretic Lutheran minister is not a member of the Catholic Church (he/she lacks canonical standing within the Church), yet if that very same infant dies before the Age of Reason, they will go to Heaven, which is life eternal, in virtue of their valid Baptism. Such is de fide.

Again, the Holy Office Letter nowhere talks about Baptism nor does it ever state that one may enter Heaven, life eternal, without Baptism!

An infant cannot be united to the Church in "intention" and "desire".

Hello?

Jehanne · « **Reply #9 on:** September 24, 2013, 08:43:26 AM »

Quote from: Lover of Truth

Quote from: Jehanne
Quote from: Lover of Truth
In its own way, the same thing must be said about the Church, insofar as the Church itself is a general help to salvation. Therefore, in order that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member, but it is required that at least he be united to it by intention and desire.

To be a member of the Catholic Church, one must have canonical standing within the Catholic Church. Therefore, an infant who is baptized in a heretical Lutheran sect by a heretic Lutheran minister is not a member of the Catholic Church (he/she lacks canonical standing within the Church), yet if that very same infant dies before the Age of Reason, they will go to Heaven, which is life eternal, in virtue of their valid Baptism. Such is de fide.

Again, the Holy Office Letter nowhere talks about Baptism nor does it ever state that one may enter Heaven, life eternal, without Baptism!

An infant cannot be united to the Church in "intention" and "desire".

Hello?

True, but my point is that sacramental Baptism does not make one a member of the Catholic Church; however, one is joined to the Catholic Church through Baptism even if one is baptized "outside" the Church.

Ditto for "implicit faith." One is joined to the Catholic Church via the bonds of implicit faith and perfect charity without actually being a member of the Church; however, that does not mean that the Triune God allows such folks to end this life without Baptism of Water. The Holy Office Letter was simply silent about that.

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #10 on:** September 24, 2013, 08:59:56 AM »

Quote from: Jehanne

Quote from: Lover of Truth
Quote from: Jehanne
Quote from: Lover of Truth
In its own way, the same thing must be said about the Church, insofar as the Church itself is a general help to salvation. Therefore, in order that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member, but it is required that at least he be united to it by intention and desire.

To be a member of the Catholic Church, one must have canonical standing within the Catholic Church. Therefore, an infant who is baptized in a heretical Lutheran sect by a heretic Lutheran minister is not a member of the Catholic Church (he/she lacks canonical standing within the Church), yet if that very same infant dies before the Age of Reason, they will go to Heaven, which is life eternal, in virtue of their valid Baptism. Such is de fide.

Again, the Holy Office Letter nowhere talks about Baptism nor does it ever state that one may enter Heaven, life eternal, without Baptism!

An infant cannot be united to the Church in "intention" and "desire".

Hello?

True, but my point is that sacramental Baptism does not make one a member of the Catholic Church; however, one is joined to the Catholic Church through Baptism even if one is baptized "outside" the Church.

Ditto for "implicit faith." One is joined to the Catholic Church via the bonds of implicit faith and perfect charity without actually being a member of the Church; however, that does not mean that the Triune God allows such folks to end this life without Baptism of Water. The Holy Office Letter was simply silent about that.

You are so close to getting it. Just keep praying to your Guradian Angel and study infallible sources to the exclusion of Feeney for a while and you will realize that sanctifying grace is all that matters in the end, and this can be obtained apart from water baptism in some cases where water baptism is impossible. The sanctifying grace is more important than the indelible mark. Some eople with the character of sacramental baptism on their soul have gone to Hell and will continue to do so. No one who dies in a state of sanctifying grace, even if water was not poured on their head will go to Hell, but all of them, without exception will go to Heaven. This cannot be denied by a true Catholic.

Jehanne · « **Reply #11 on:** September 24, 2013, 09:18:40 AM »

Quote from: Lover of Truth

Just keep praying to your Guradian Angel and study infallible sources to the exclusion of Feeney for a while and you will realize that sanctifying grace is all that matters in the end, and this can be obtained apart from water baptism in some cases where water baptism is impossible.

I do not believe that the One and Triune God allows such to happen, ever.

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #12 on:** September 24, 2013, 09:28:08 AM »

Quote from: Jehanne

Quote from: Lover of Truth
Just keep praying to your Guradian Angel and study infallible sources to the exclusion of Feeney for a while and you will realize that sanctifying grace is all that matters in the end, and this can be obtained apart from water baptism in some cases where water baptism is impossible.

I do not believe that the One and Triune God allows such to happen, ever.

When you find that such is true from an infallible Catholic source let me know.

The Church would not teach infallibly on it were such impossible.

This is something that results from your admiration of Feeney.

It is why you admit that "you" don't believe it. And why you "suggest" that all the souls in limbo could have been baptized with water before they went to Heaven. You do not have Catholic sources to back you.

The bible says "All men have sinned."

Well it must be true. That includes the Blessed Virgin Mary right?

"Men" of course is used in the universal sense "all mankind". Otherwise perhaps 50% of all women did not sin. Maybe 75%.

I will pray for you. Unimmerse yourself from Feeneyite sources and go to only pre-V2 authoritative Catholic sources. That shouldn't scare you should it? Can you be misled by the Church if you understand what she teaches in the way she understands it.

Jehanne · « **Reply #13 on:** September 24, 2013, 09:49:07 AM »

Quote from: Lover of Truth

Quote from: Jehanne
Quote from: Lover of Truth
Just keep praying to your Guradian Angel and study infallible sources to the exclusion of Feeney for a while and you will realize that sanctifying grace is all that matters in the end, and this can be obtained apart from water baptism in some cases where water baptism is impossible.

I do not believe that the One and Triune God allows such to happen, ever.

When you find that such is true from an infallible Catholic source let me know.

It's my theological opinion, which the Catholic Church, even under Pope Pius XII, never condemned. Do you agree that "theological opinion" exists, and if so, would you state for me a position on Catholic doctrine which falls into the realm of "theological opinion"?

Quote from: Lover of Truth

The Church would not teach infallibly on it were such impossible.

The Catholic Church has never infallibly taught that there are are souls in Heaven which lack the character of sacramental Baptism. If so, can you provide the Denzinger reference for that?

Quote from: Lover of Truth

This is something that results from your admiration of Feeney.

No, what the good Father taught in his The Bread of Life makes sense to me. Once again, that book was never condemned by any churchman, including, Pope Pius XII. If it were so blatantly heretical, why was it not condemned? And, why does the SSPX give the Holy Eucharist to known and professing "Feeneyites"?

Quote from: Lover of Truth

It is why you admit that "you" don't believe it. And why you "suggest" that all the souls in limbo could have been baptized with water before they went to Heaven. You do not have Catholic sources to back you.

It's a theological opinion, a deduction from other Catholic sources:

Quote

On the Necessity of Sacramental Baptism in Water by the Command of the One and Triune God.

1) Major Premise -- The One and Triune God commands every human being, without exception, to be Baptized in Water:

Pope Paul III, Council of Trent, Session 6, Chapter 4, ex cathedra: "In these words there is suggested a description of the justification of the impious, how there is a transition from that state in which a person is born as a child of the first Adam to the state of grace and of adoption as sons of God through the second Adam, Jesus Christ our savior; indeed, this transition, once the gospel has been promulgated, cannot take place without the laver of regeneration or a desire for it, as it is written: UNLESS A MAN IS BORN AGAIN OF WATER and the Holy Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God (John 3:5)."

2) Minor Premise -- The Commandments of God are not impossible for us to fulfill:

Pope Paul III, Council of Trent, Session 6, Chapter 11 on Justification, ex cathedra: "...no one should make use of that rash statement forbidden under anathema by the Fathers, that the commandments of God are impossible to observe for a man who is justified. 'FOR GOD DOES NOT COMMAND IMPOSSIBILITIES,' but by commanding admonishes you both to do what you can do, and to pray for what you cannot do."

Alternate Minor Premise -- God is certainly capable of bringing about the fulfillment of His commands:

Pope Pius IX, Vatican Council I, Session 3, Chapter 1, On God the creator of all things, ex cathedra: "EVERYTHING THAT GOD HAS BROUGHT INTO BEING HE PROTECTS AND GOVERNS BY HIS PROVIDENCE, which reaches from one end of the earth to the other and orders all things well. All things are open and laid bare before His eyes, even those which will be brought about by the free activity of creatures."

3) Conclusion:

"There is NO ONE about to die in the state of justification WHOM GOD CANNOT SECURE BAPTISM FOR, and indeed, Baptism of Water. The schemes concerning salvation, I leave to the sceptics. The clear truths of salvation, I am preaching to you." (Father Feeney, Bread of Life, pg. 56)

Quote from: Lover of Truth

The bible says "All men have sinned."

Well it must be true. That includes the Blessed Virgin Mary right?

Good example! This was disputed in the Church for a long, long time. Did Saint Thomas go to Hell for having taught that Mary, our Blessed Mother, was conceived in original sin?

Quote from: Lover of Truth

"Men" of course is used in the universal sense "all mankind". Otherwise perhaps 50% of all women did not sin. Maybe 75%.

I will pray for you. Unimmerse yourself from Feeneyite sources and go to only pre-V2 authoritative Catholic sources. That shouldn't scare you should it? Can you be misled by the Church if you understand what she teaches in the way she understands it."

I posted this for SB13 and he never replied to me:

Quote from: Baltimore Catechism

Q. 174. Can God do all things?

A. God can do all things, and nothing is hard or impossible to Him.

Q. 175. When is a thing said to be "impossible"?

A. A thing is said to be "impossible" when it cannot be done. Many things that are impossible for creatures are possible for God.

Q. 653. Is Baptism of desire or of blood sufficient to produce the effects of Baptism of water?

A. Baptism of desire or of blood is sufficient to produce the effects of the Baptism of water, if it is impossible to receive the Baptism of water.

Theological Proposition: The Triune God can bring the Waters of Baptism to whomever He wishes!

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #14 on:** September 24, 2013, 09:53:39 AM »

Quote from: Jehanne

Quote from: Lover of Truth
Quote from: Jehanne
Quote from: Lover of Truth
Just keep praying to your Guradian Angel and study infallible sources to the exclusion of Feeney for a while and you will realize that sanctifying grace is all that matters in the end, and this can be obtained apart from water baptism in some cases where water baptism is impossible.

I do not believe that the One and Triune God allows such to happen, ever.

When you find that such is true from an infallible Catholic source let me know.

It's my theological opinion, which the Catholic Church, even under Pope Pius XII, never condemned. Do you agree that "theological opinion" exists, and if so, would you state for me a position on Catholic doctrine which falls into the realm of "theological opinion"?

Quote from: Lover of Truth
The Church would not teach infallibly on it were such impossible.

The Catholic Church has never infallibly taught that there are are souls in Heaven which lack the character of sacramental Baptism. If so, can you provide the Denzinger reference for that?

Quote from: Lover of Truth
This is something that results from your admiration of Feeney.

No, what the good Father taught in his The Bread of Life makes sense to me. Once again, that book was never condemned by any churchman, including, Pope Pius XII. If it were so blatantly heretical, why was it not condemned? And, why does the SSPX give the Holy Eucharist to known and professing "Feeneyites"?

Quote from: Lover of Truth
It is why you admit that "you" don't believe it. And why you "suggest" that all the souls in limbo could have been baptized with water before they went to Heaven. You do not have Catholic sources to back you.

It's a theological opinion, a deduction from other Catholic sources:

Quote
On the Necessity of Sacramental Baptism in Water by the Command of the One and Triune God.

1) Major Premise -- The One and Triune God commands every human being, without exception, to be Baptized in Water:

Pope Paul III, Council of Trent, Session 6, Chapter 4, ex cathedra: "In these words there is suggested a description of the justification of the impious, how there is a transition from that state in which a person is born as a child of the first Adam to the state of grace and of adoption as sons of God through the second Adam, Jesus Christ our savior; indeed, this transition, once the gospel has been promulgated, cannot take place without the laver of regeneration or a desire for it, as it is written: UNLESS A MAN IS BORN AGAIN OF WATER and the Holy Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God (John 3:5)."

2) Minor Premise -- The Commandments of God are not impossible for us to fulfill:

Pope Paul III, Council of Trent, Session 6, Chapter 11 on Justification, ex cathedra: "...no one should make use of that rash statement forbidden under anathema by the Fathers, that the commandments of God are impossible to observe for a man who is justified. 'FOR GOD DOES NOT COMMAND IMPOSSIBILITIES,' but by commanding admonishes you both to do what you can do, and to pray for what you cannot do."

Alternate Minor Premise -- God is certainly capable of bringing about the fulfillment of His commands:

Pope Pius IX, Vatican Council I, Session 3, Chapter 1, On God the creator of all things, ex cathedra: "EVERYTHING THAT GOD HAS BROUGHT INTO BEING HE PROTECTS AND GOVERNS BY HIS PROVIDENCE, which reaches from one end of the earth to the other and orders all things well. All things are open and laid bare before His eyes, even those which will be brought about by the free activity of creatures."

3) Conclusion:

"There is NO ONE about to die in the state of justification WHOM GOD CANNOT SECURE BAPTISM FOR, and indeed, Baptism of Water. The schemes concerning salvation, I leave to the sceptics. The clear truths of salvation, I am preaching to you." (Father Feeney, Bread of Life, pg. 56)

Quote from: Lover of Truth
The bible says "All men have sinned."

Well it must be true. That includes the Blessed Virgin Mary right?

Good example! This was disputed in the Church for a long, long time. Did Saint Thomas go to Hell for having taught that Mary, our Blessed Mother, was conceived in original sin?

Quote from: Lover of Truth
"Men" of course is used in the universal sense "all mankind". Otherwise perhaps 50% of all women did not sin. Maybe 75%.

I will pray for you. Unimmerse yourself from Feeneyite sources and go to only pre-V2 authoritative Catholic sources. That shouldn't scare you should it? Can you be misled by the Church if you understand what she teaches in the way she understands it."

I posted this for SB13 and he never replied to me:

Quote from: Baltimore Catechism
Q. 174. Can God do all things?

A. God can do all things, and nothing is hard or impossible to Him.

Q. 175. When is a thing said to be "impossible"?

A. A thing is said to be "impossible" when it cannot be done. Many things that are impossible for creatures are possible for God.

Q. 653. Is Baptism of desire or of blood sufficient to produce the effects of Baptism of water?

A. Baptism of desire or of blood is sufficient to produce the effects of the Baptism of water, if it is impossible to receive the Baptism of water.

Theological Proposition: The Triune God can bring the Waters of Baptism to whomever He wishes!

A theological opinion would be that Judas left before receiving the Eucharist rather than after. Or that there will be a reign of peace for 1000 years before the Final Judgement.

I will read and get to the rest of your post later. I will be away for a bit.

God's best and mine,
John