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Author Topic: The Heretical Pope Fallacy  (Read 73752 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: The Heretical Pope Fallacy
« Reply #235 on: January 09, 2018, 08:21:54 AM »
If you believe what you say is the rule of faith, then there is not even the slightest possibility of an illegitimate pope. Simple.

There are no words.  Stop before you hurt yourself.

Offline Stubborn

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Re: The Heretical Pope Fallacy
« Reply #236 on: January 09, 2018, 08:35:22 AM »
There are no words.  Stop before you hurt yourself.
Those are the only type of words you ever have, so just keep guessing.

Try to spell it out for yourself oh wise one.
In 1962, a "true" pope called together a Council and nearly all the bishops in the world attended - if all councils, in so much as they are an "act of the magisterium" are are infallible, and if the magisterium is the rule of faith and all the bishops in unison with the pope are the magisterium and are infallible when they teach the same thing, then you have no way around it, you are bound to stop all your foolish star gazing and see things as they are - you must convert to that rule you claim to be the rule of faith, you must submit! - either that or you have no faith whatsoever in what you claim to believe.


Offline Ladislaus

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Re: The Heretical Pope Fallacy
« Reply #237 on: January 09, 2018, 08:55:27 AM »
Try to spell it out for yourself oh wise one.
In 1962, a "true" pope called together a Council and nearly all the bishops in the world attended ...

What part of the SV thesis that this wasn't a "true" (aka legitimate) pope don't you understand?

Offline Stubborn

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Re: The Heretical Pope Fallacy
« Reply #238 on: January 09, 2018, 09:37:38 AM »
What part of the SV thesis that this wasn't a "true" (aka legitimate) pope don't you understand?
I understand the thinking, but not if you're going to stick with Councils are automatically infallible and the idea that "the proximate rule of faith is the magisterium".

A Council was convened and completed - this actually happened. Dispute it all you like but reality dictates it happened and is therefore indisputable. If all councils are infallible, then you have zero leg to stand on just knowing there actually was a real Council and this council being universal in it's "magisterium", by your definition includes a pope.

IF the pope was not the pope when it convened, then neither were nearly all the bishops in the world who all preach(ed) the same thing in unison with the pope - - and the whole Catholic world kept the faith for all those decades before V2 without a pope or magisterium, i.e. without any rule of faith at all. So much for it lasting till the end of time.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: The Heretical Pope Fallacy
« Reply #239 on: January 09, 2018, 10:02:33 AM »
I understand the thinking, but not if you're going to stick with Councils are automatically infallible and the idea that "the proximate rule of faith is the magisterium".

A Council was convened and completed - this actually happened. Dispute it all you like but reality dictates it happened and is therefore indisputable. If all councils are infallible, then you have zero leg to stand on just knowing there actually was a real Council and this council being universal in it's "magisterium", by your definition includes a pope.

IF the pope was not the pope when it convened, then neither were nearly all the bishops in the world who all preach(ed) the same thing in unison with the pope - - and the whole Catholic world kept the faith for all those decades before V2 without a pope or magisterium, i.e. without any rule of faith at all. So much for it lasting till the end of time.

You must have missed all the previous citations.  Councils have Ecuмenical status if and only when they're approved by the pope.  No legitimate pope = no Ecuмenical Council.

As for the gap in time, the Magisterium can go many years without defining anything new ... without it thereby ceasing to be the rule of faith.