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Author Topic: The Heretical Pope Fallacy  (Read 98268 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: The Heretical Pope Fallacy
« Reply #210 on: January 08, 2018, 04:12:29 PM »
Quote from: Pax Vobis on January 08, 2018, 03:59:27 PM
The modernists issued a valid, legal missal (Paul VI's) which was promulgated (made law).  This missal did not violate Quo Primum (QP) because QP never outlawed a pope CREATING a new missal, it only outlawed USING any other missal than its own.  So, technically, Paul VI's missal was legal.  But...Paul VI could not FORCE anyone to use this missal (since QP was still in force).

FORCING something is not a requirement that it be safe for faith and morals.  Promulgating it for use by the Universal Church is all that's needed.  You could make the same case for the Tridentine Rite, since the Church left intact any immemorial rites as well as Eastern Rites.  Would anyone dare say that the Tridentine Mass could have been harmful to faith?
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: The Heretical Pope Fallacy
« Reply #211 on: January 08, 2018, 04:14:51 PM »
Quote from: Pax Vobis on January 08, 2018, 04:11:43 PM
All trads are in complete (and perfect) submission to the laws of the Church and her Universal Discipline and thus, their crtiques are made from within the Church.

Completely false.  Trads operate an entire apostolate outside the control of and submission to the hierarchy.  Trad priests to not trace their chain of command back to the pope in any way, shape, or form.
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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: The Heretical Pope Fallacy
« Reply #212 on: January 08, 2018, 04:15:59 PM »
Quote
You won't address that big picture, so you head right back down to the details and technicalities.
I am addressing the big picture, but you don't like the answer.  Our Lady said that 'the Church will be in eclipse'.  In other words, the Church will APPEAR to be replaced, to have disappeared, to have gone away.  The truth is that the appearance was not true.  She was still there, still shining, had not changed.

Much like the V2 'church', which APPEARS to have violated indefectibility, I say that technically, it did not.  Appearances can be deceiving...

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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: The Heretical Pope Fallacy
« Reply #213 on: January 08, 2018, 04:20:31 PM »
Quote
Promulgating it for use by the Universal Church is all that's needed.  
Promulgate just means to pass a law.  The words of the law and the requirements (or lack thereof) are the only important facts.
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Offline 2Vermont

Re: The Heretical Pope Fallacy
« Reply #214 on: January 08, 2018, 04:32:02 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on January 08, 2018, 04:11:07 PM
But, that's my entire point.  It's only by getting mired down in technicalities can you lose sight of the big picture.  You won't address that big picture, so you head right back down to the details and technicalities.
I think Pax once admitted that he enjoys the debate.  If he were to just address the big picture, there wouldn't be as much to debate.
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