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Author Topic: The flappers are back  (Read 6630 times)

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Offline ElwinRansom1970

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Re: The flappers are back
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2024, 09:29:05 AM »
Also a conductor is not needed. I agree this is a HUGE distraction.
Neither are MCs needed for a Missa Cantata. At those Masses an MC is likewise a distraction. Save them for Solemn and Pontifical High Masses.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: The flappers are back
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2024, 12:25:10 PM »
Neither are MCs needed for a Missa Cantata. At those Masses an MC is likewise a distraction. Save them for Solemn and Pontifical High Masses.

Yes, especially when they're doing the clicking/clapping thing to coordinate movements, such as genuflections.  It's a small enough contingent of servers where that's unnecessary and distracting.


Offline Matthew

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Re: The flappers are back
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2024, 09:44:06 PM »
Has anyone here seen "3 within a 3" before V2? If there is any legitimate claim to being "traditional," I'd like to hear it.

If you're talking about *ring* for the genuflection, 3x *ring* for the elevation, and then *ring* for the second genuflection --

Tom Nelson did it this way at his independent chapel which he started in the early 70's. Tom Nelson was the founder of TAN Books and was a pioneer of the Traditional Movement. I'd certainly describe Thomas A. Nelson as a "pre-Vatican II" Traditional Catholic. And that's how he trained me to serve, so...

So all I can say is -- don't get dogmatic about it, don't let your personal preference(s) intrude TOO far into the "dogma and true Tradition" department of your brain.

We all have our personal preferences. Some like a quiet Low Mass, some would go out of their way for a good High Mass. Neither is WRONG.

As an aside, I'd call receiving something in person from your ancestors as LITERALLY tradition in action. What is more traditional than a line-of-sight, person to person handing down of something? We're talking an unbroken line here, not something a dude looked up in a manual or read about on the Internet. I find that many modern-day Traditional Catholics, especially in the Indult, often flail about, because they have to *re-discover* Tradition. They have to re-start Tradition, jump start a dead car -- the line HAS been broken for them. There's something special about an UNBROKEN line, like many of us received from +ABL for example.

I know one Indult couple who showed a picture of their steak dinner on Ash Wednesday (it was Valentine's Day this year) -- the same couple had a Catholic feast day party, at which they prayed the Rosary IN LATIN. Not something most Trads do. See the problem? They made a big show of praying the Rosary in Latin (once), but meanwhile do they say the Rosary (in English) regularly as a family in private? Do they fast and abstain like Trads? Like I said: they flail about. They're all over the place.

Even with my puny brain, I can understand something of God's wisdom in having a LIVE human being be in charge of His Church (the Pope). You need that kind of individual monarch to make decisions, to apply common sense, to decide disputes, to judge and rule. And to personally oversee the passing on of Tradition as a whole bundle. "Tradidi quod et accepi".

Offline Mark 79

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Re: The flappers are back
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2024, 02:43:48 AM »
If you're talking about *ring* for the genuflection, 3x *ring* for the elevation, and then *ring* for the second genuflection --

Tom Nelson …

Your consolation is well-intentioned and appreciated, but is it not the case that the rubrics of  the Mass are prescribed in detail by authority? If this custom was juridically accepted from a canonical authority, I'd like to know of it. It's not too much to ask.

Lex orandi, lex credendi.  The Holy Trinity is "three-in-one," not "three-within-three."

Offline Matthew

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Re: The flappers are back
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2024, 08:28:07 AM »
Your consolation is well-intentioned and appreciated, but is it not the case that the rubrics of  the Mass are prescribed in detail by authority? If this custom was juridically accepted from a canonical authority, I'd like to know of it. It's not too much to ask.

Lex orandi, lex credendi.  The Holy Trinity is "three-in-one," not "three-within-three."

I don't have Fortescue or other manuals of Liturgical rubrics handy, but I realize that's what you're looking for.

Actually, although I'm not an expert, I do seem to recall that "it's a matter of custom" -- i.e., NOT IN THE RUBRICS. It's not something the priest does, so it's not written in red! (Our word rubrics derives from the Latin word for RED.)

As for me personally, I'm going to go with trusting the men who personally passed the Faith on to me in the first place, that they weren't just innovating or pulling stuff out of their butt.

It's a rational thing to trust them. If they wanted to innovate or improvise the Liturgy, no one was forcing them to make such great sacrifices to be Traditional Catholics in the first place...