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Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: Nishant Xavier on July 30, 2019, 06:10:16 AM

Title: The Filioque: A call to Orthodox to come home to Rome.
Post by: Nishant Xavier on July 30, 2019, 06:10:16 AM

Dear friends in Christ Jesus, 1Peter5 just published an article on Filioque penned by yours truly. It's a long story, but to keep it short: I sent them a mail on something else, they said they would be interested in publishing an article on the Filioque, but only provided it met their standards; I was doing theological research on it at the time, so I took it up as a challenge. Finally, they liked and posted it! Please share your comments and feedback.

From: https://onepeterfive.com/filioque-separated-east/ (https://onepeterfive.com/filioque-separated-east/)

Thoughts and Comments?

(https://onepeterfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/holy-spirit-dove-stained-glass-768x576.jpg)

The Filioque: A Call to the Separated East to Come Home

[1] Five Ecuмenical Councils approved a letter of Patriarch St. Cyril of Alexandria that taught the Dogma of the Filioque!

Cardinal St. Robert Bellarmine gives a manifest proof establishing the doctrine from the authority of five ecuмenical councils:

Omitting these things, then, let us bring forward the Councils that testify the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son. First the Council celebrated at Alexandria, from which Council Cyril writes a letter to Nestorius in which are these words, ‘The Spirit is called the Spirit of Truth, and Christ is Truth, and so He proceeds from Him likewise as from the Father.’ This letter was read in the Council of Ephesus and was approved both by the Council of Ephesus itself and by the fourth Synod, and by the fifth Synod and by the sixth and seventh Synods. We have therefore five general Councils celebrated among the Greeks which receive the most open and clear opinion that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son as from the Father. What then do they now seek? What do they demand?

Patriarch St. Cyril and the five ecuмenical councils mentioned by Cardinal St. Robert Bellarmine give us the patristic and Church-authorized interpretation of the Word of Christ in Sacred Scripture. As we will see subsequently, Bishops like St. Hilary, St. Ambrose, and St. Augustine had already done this in the West in the 4th century.

[2] Greek Orthodox Bishops and Patriarchs, at Nicene Ecuмenical Councils, confess doctrine practically equivalent to the Filioque.

As if that were not enough, we have the testimony of two Eastern saintly bishops, one of whom was patriarch of the Greek Church and made a dogmatic confession.

Bp. St. Leontius of Caesarea, at Nicaea I, testifies that “the Spirit proceeds from the Father, and is proper to the Son and gushes forth from Him” [3]. This is the Faith of the 318 fathers gathered at Nicaea. As Cardinal St. Robert writes, it was not explicitly defined in Nicaea, because the necessity had not yet arisen, as the ancient fathers testified, “I for my part cannot sufficiently wonder with what boldness Jeremias, who calls himself Ecuмenical Patriarch, dared to write recently in his censure of the confession of the Lutherans that it was defined by the Synod of Nicaea and all subsequent general Councils that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father alone[.] … Let us then consult the Nicene Creed, and let us see whether it teaches in very expressive words that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father alone. The whole Nicene Creed is cited by Cyril among the Greeks, by Ruffinus among the Latins, but nothing else is read in that Creed about the Holy Spirit than this opinion ‘and [I believe] in the Holy Spirit.’ Now nαzιanzen testifies that the Nicene Synod did not hand on the perfect doctrine about the Holy Spirit for the reason that the question about the Holy Spirit had not arisen. Let Jeremias see in which Nicene Creed he has read that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father alone.”

Patriarch St. Tarasius of Constantinople, at Nicaea II, declared, in the Creed, “And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life, Who Proceeds from the Father through the Son, and is acknowledged to be Himself God” [4]. Just as the 150 fathers at Constantinople I added to the Creed of Nicaea the words, “the Lord and Giver of Life, Who Proceeds from the Father,” etc., Patriarch St. Tarasius here adds the words “through the Son,” etc. This shows the Faith of the Universal Church at Nicaea II.

[3] Great Latin bishops and fathers exegete and interpret the words of Sacred Scripture in favor of the Filioque doctrine.

Bishop St. Hilary of Poitiers says it is one and the same thing to proceed from the Father, receive from Him and from His Son:

Now I ask whether to receive from the Son is the same thing as to proceed from the Father. But if one believes that there is a difference between receiving from the Son and proceeding from the Father, surely to receive from the Son and to receive from the Father will be regarded as one and the same thing. For our Lord Himself says, Because He shall receive of Mine and shall declare it unto you. All things whatsoever the Father has are Mine: therefore said I, He shall receive of Mine and shall declare it unto you. That which He will receive — whether it will be power, or excellence, or teaching — the Son has said must be received from Him, and again He indicates that this same thing must be received from the Father. For when He says that all things whatsoever the Father has are His, and that for this cause He declared that it must be received from His own, He teaches also that what is received from the Father is yet received from Himself, because all things that the Father has are His. [5]

Our Lord Jesus teaches about this in detail in Gospel of St. John, chapters 14–16. The Lord Himself, the apostles, and the fathers, explain that the Spirit proceeds from the Son.

Bishop St. Ambrose says St. John was a witness even in Heaven that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son [6]:

53. And this, again, is not a trivial matter that we read that a river goes forth from the throne of God. For you read the words of the Evangelist John to this purport: And He showed me a river of living water, bright as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the midst of the street thereof, and on either side, was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruits, yielding its fruit every month, and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of all nations (Revelation 22:1–2). 154. This is certainly the River proceeding from the throne of God, that is, the Holy Spirit, Whom he drinks who believes in Christ, as He Himself says: If any man thirst, let him come to Me and drink. He that believes in Me, as says the Scripture, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. But this spoke He of the Spirit. (John 7:37-38) Therefore the river is the Spirit. [5]

Such an amazing testimony hidden in the Sacred Scriptures should fill us with amazement. It is the Holy Spirit Himself Who assures us whence He proceeds.

Bishop St. Augustine says Jesus breathed forth the Holy Spirit to show that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son. St. Augustine has written much on the Filioque.

St. Augustine says Jesus bears witness to Filioque in countless ways:

And it is proved by many other testimonies of the Divine Word, that the Spirit, who is specially called in the Trinity the Holy Spirit, is of the Father and of the Son: of whom likewise the Son Himself says, Whom I will send unto you from the Father; and in another place, Whom the Father will send in my name. And we are so taught that He proceeds from both, because the Son Himself says, He proceeds from the Father. And when He had risen from the dead, and had appeared to His disciples, He breathed upon them, and said, Receive the Holy Ghost, so as to show that He proceeded also from Himself[.] … Wherefore let him who can understand the generation of the Son from the Father without time, understand also the procession of the Holy Spirit from both without time. And let him who can understand, in that which the Son says, As the Father has life in Himself, so has He given to the Son to have life in Himself, not that the Father gave life to the Son already existing without life, but that He so begot Him apart from time, that the life which the Father gave to the Son by begetting Him is co-eternal with the life of the Father who gave it: let him, I say, understand, that as the Father has in Himself that the Holy Spirit should proceed from Him, so has He given to the Son that the same Holy Spirit should proceed from Him, and be both apart from time: and that the Holy Spirit is so said to proceed from the Father as that it be understood that His proceeding also from the Son, is a property derived by the Son from the Father. For if the Son has of the Father whatever He has, then certainly He has of the Father, that the Holy Spirit proceeds also from Him. But let no one think of any times therein which imply a sooner and a later; because these things are not there at all. How, then, would it not be most absurd to call Him the Son of both: when, just as generation from the Father, without any changeableness of nature, gives to the Son essence, without beginning of time; so procession from both, without any changeableness of nature, gives to the Holy Spirit essence without beginning of time? [7]

A testimony so clear as this should suffice to put an end to the later heresy of Photian Monopatrism once and for all.

Title: Re: The Filioque: A call to Orthodox to come home to Rome.
Post by: Nishant Xavier on July 30, 2019, 06:12:49 AM

4] Byzantine and Eastern fathers and monks testify that the spiration of the Spirit from the Father does not exclude but rather is mediated through the Son.

St. Basil the Great states that the Holy Spirit is united through the Word in the eternal unity of the Holy Trinity: “Through the Son, who is one, he is joined to the Father, who is one, and by himself completes the Blessed Trinity” [8]. The Son is One, the Father is One, the Spirit is One united to the Father through the Son.

St. Maximus the Confessor said: “By nature the Holy Spirit in his being takes substantially his origin from the Father through the Son who is begotten” [9]. The Holy Spirit takes His being substantially from the Father through the Son, and this in such a way that the Father gave the Spirit to the Son in eternally begetting Him.

St. John Damascene is the sole saint cited as possibly denying the Filioque, yet even he does not deny that the Trinitarian Order has the Spirit always issuing from the Father through the Word: “I say that God is always Father since he has always his Word coming from himself, and through his Word, having his Spirit issuing from him” [10].

We have seen that St. Tarasius dogmatized such a profession at the Second Nicene Council, the seventh ecuмenical council. This is the true tradition of the fathers.

[5] The Latin fathers are absolutely unanimous in teaching the doctrine of the Filioque. Bishops and several councils do the same.

This is a fact so clear that it will hardly be doubted. It is explicitly stated by St. Maximus [11], and further evidence for the same can be read in Dr. Henry Barclay Swete’s monumental work on the subject [12]. The evidence docuмented in point [3] already establishes this, and in St. Robert’s treatise, the doctor explicitly cites much proof; but we will cite the Athanasian Creed, which even secular scholars do not doubt was the widely accepted faith of the Western Church by at least the 5th century.

As St. Robert adduces it, “blessed Athanasius who says in his Creed, ‘The Holy Spirit is not made nor created nor generated by the Father and the Son, but proceeds.'”

To this testimony an objection might be made — namely, that this creed is not really from Athanasius. This is easily refuted, both by nαzιanzen, where he says in praise of Athanasius that he composed a most perfect confession of faith that the whole West and East venerate, and also from Augustine, who by name cites Athanasius, bishop of Alexandria and adduces a complete section of this creed, and he uses whole sentences from it, with the name of Athanasius, as if it were well known in the Church.

The Third Council of Toledo (589) is also evidence of the universal acceptance of this doctrine: “Credo in Spiritum Sanctum qui ex patre filioque procedit” (I believe in the Holy Spirit Who Proceeds from the Father and the Son). Both Archbishop St. Leander of Seville, who presided, and his brother, St. Isidore, teach the Filioque dogma.

[6] The Greek Fathers are unanimous in teaching the doctrine “per Filium” (through the Son). This fact has been found embarrassing by deniers of the Filioque.

Philip Schaff, in History of the Christian Church, says, “Photius and the later Eastern controversialists dropped or rejected the per Filium, as being nearly equivalent to ex Filio or Filioque, or understood it as being applicable only to the mission of the Spirit, and emphasized the exclusiveness of the procession from the Father [13]. “The teachings of St. Basil and St. Maximus shown earlier, and especially the profession of St. Tarasius at Nicaea II, demonstrate that per Filium is dogma.

[7] The Roman pontiffs, the successors of St. Peter, have unanimously taught the Filioque explicitly for millennia. There is clear unbroken tradition present here.

Pope St. Damasus, quite likely in a synod before the year 380 A.D., used the Filioque in a response to the Macedonian heresy: “We believe … in the Holy Spirit, not begotten nor unbegotten, not created nor made, but proceeding from the Father and the Son, always co-eternal with the Father and the Son” [14].

Note the special value of this ancient testimony of the 4th-century Roman Church, world-renowned for its Catholic orthodoxy and defense of St. Athanasius contra mundum under Pope St. Julius, et al. It is incidental and undesigned. It presupposes the dogmatic truth of the Filioque in a controversy against Macedonian heretics (who blasphemed against the Divinity of the Holy Spirit). And it shows that the dogma of the Holy Spirit’s divinity is no less certain than the dogma of the Filioque.

Another 4th-century Roman synod states: “The Holy Spirit is not only the Spirit of the Father, or not only the Spirit of the Son, but the Spirit of the Father and the Son. For it is written, ‘If anyone loves the world, the Spirit of the Father is not in him’ (1 Jn. 2:15). Likewise, it is written, ‘If anyone, however, does not have the Spirit of Christ, He is none of His (Romans 8:9).’ When the Father and the Son are mentioned in this way, the Holy Spirit is understood, of whom the Son Himself says in the Gospel, that the Holy Spirit ‘proceedeth from the Father (John 15:26)’ and ‘He shall receive of mine and shall annuonce it to you (Jn. 16:14)'” [15].

Are there more such testimonies from the ancient orthodox Roman Church? Yes: Pope St. Leo the Great, in the 5th century, says, “And so under the first head is shown what unholy views they hold about the Divine Trinity: they affirm that the person of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost is one and the same, as if the same God were named now Father, now Son, and now Holy Ghost: and as if He who begat were not one, He who was begotten another, and He who proceeded from both yet another” [16].

This letter of Pope St. Leo I is cited in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Is there another Pope, saint, and great who teaches Filioque? Yes: Pope St. Gregory the Great in the 6thcentury shows the dogmatic Roman and universal tradition when he confesses, “We can also understand His being sent in terms of His divine nature. The Son is said to be sent from the Father from the fact that He is begotten of the Father. The Son relates that He sends the Holy Spirit[.] … The sending of the Spirit is that procession by which He proceeds from the Father and the Son. Accordingly, as the Spirit is said to be sent because it proceeds, so too it is not inappropriate to say that the Son is sent because He is begotten” [17]. This statement shows that, contra the Greeks, sending reveals hypostatic relation. That is why, throughout the Holy Scriptures, we never read that the Father is sent. The Father does not proceed from anyone. The Son proceeds from the Father alone, by generation, therefore He is said to be sent by the Father. The Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son, therefore the Son explicitly says many times, “But I tell you the truth: it is expedient to you that I go: for if I go not, the Paraclete will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you” (Jn. 16:7) that we may understand the eternal relation implied here.

Title: Re: The Filioque: A call to Orthodox to come home to Rome.
Post by: Nishant Xavier on July 30, 2019, 06:14:39 AM

Objections of the Greek Church and a brief response to them — is the Filioque doctrine true, certain, established from Scripture, fathers and the early councils?

Objection I: It seems the texts cited refer not to the eternal procession of the Holy Ghost, but to His temporal mission — i.e., He is sent by the Son only in time.

This is an expected objection — one the texts themselves anticipate and answer. When the Fathers say (1) the Father gave it to the Son, in begetting Him, that the Holy Spirit proceeds from Him, they show that the procession from the Father through the Son is eternal as the generation of the Son is eternal. (2) When the Fathers say He proceeds from the Father just as He proceeds from the Son, they show that just as the procession from the Father is eternal, so it is from the Son.

Objection II: Even if the Holy Spirit’s eternal procession from the Father is mediated through the Son, it doesn’t seem to follow that He proceeds through the Son. It could be that it is merely His energetic manifestation that happens through the Son, but not that His divine hypostasis receives essence from Father through Son.

There are only two processions in the Holy Trinity, using “procession” in a broad sense (as both St. Augustine and St. Cyril do) to explain it.

(1) The eternal procession specifically called generation, by which the Person of the Father is distinguished from the Person of the Son, so that He Who begat is one Person, and He Who is begotten is another. (This second objection is almost like someone saying the Son’s hypostasis is not eternally begotten of the Father.)

(2) And the eternal procession specifically called spiration, by which the Person of the Holy Spirit is distinguished from both the Person of the Father and the Person of the Son. For He from Whom He proceeds is One Person, He through Whom He proceeds is the Second Person, and He Who proceeds is the Eternal Third Person.

This is the sense in which Pope St. Leo the Great explains it in the source cited above. Since the hypostases are distinguished, it is clearly hypostatic procession.

The answer to energetic procession is as follows: there is only One Grace and One Energy of the Three Divine Persons. For, e.g., the Grace of the Holy Spirit is not distinct from the Grace of the Son, but is identical to it. Therefore, when Son and Spirit are distinguished, as by St. Cyril, it must be Persons Who are spoken of.

Objection III: But the Greek Fathers say that the Father is the Sole Cause, the Unoriginate Source of the Triune Godhead, what the Latin Fathers call the Monarch of the Holy Trinity. It seems, then, either that this teaching of the Greek Fathers must be rejected in light of the dogmatic Tradition or the Tradition must be false.

No, not at all. Just as the Greek Fathers say the Eternal Father is the sole Unoriginate Source of the Godhead, the Latin Fathers say the Eternal Father is the Sole Principle without Principle in the Godhead. Thus St. Augustine, cited by St. Thomas: “The Father is the Principle of the Whole Deity.” Texts from the Council of Florence and from the Catechism of the Catholic Church have explained this in more detail. The Father gives His Son His Spirit eternally, so the Holy Spirit is eternally the Spirit of both the Father and the Son, but the Father remains sole principle without principle, since the Son receives from the Father all that He has.

So the difficulties are resolved, and there is no need to reject any teaching of either the Greek or the Latin Fathers. The only thing necessary here for all who seriously and sincerely study the matter (besides to pray much to the Holy Trinity and especially ask the Holy Ghost for His Gifts to understand it) is to have the strong and unshakeable conviction of Catholic Faith: all the Latin Fathers, and all the Greek Fathers, no matter what, cannot collectively be mistaken. This should be a truth almost of faith for us, somewhat similar to how we would never admit the OT contradicts the NT, or the Gospels contradict the Epistles. There must, if an apparent discrepancy arises, be in fact a perfectly fine harmonization of the two apparently different approaches, which further prayer and study will indicate to us.

2 Final Objections from the disciplinary aspect are considered — even if the Filioque doctrine is true, is it good and acceptable to profess it in the Creed?

Objection IV: But the Council of Ephesus says we shouldn’t add to the Creed. We even know that Patriarch St. Cyril professed the Creed of Nicaea during that Council.

Correct to the second part. And if the fathers at Ephesus meant that nobody should add any word to the Creed, even to more fully explain apostolic doctrine, then the 150 fathers of Constantinople would have been anathema, for, as seen above, they added the words “The Lord and Giver of Life,” etc. — which is evidently absurd. The fact that the ancient Church received the Creed of Constantinople as complementary and as a beautiful exposition of doctrine already implied in the Nicene Creed shows that the mind of the early Church was not only not opposed to, but even welcomed such more explicit dogmatic definitions of Church doctrine. Moreover, Patriarch St. Tarasius adopted the Creed to profess more explicitly the dogma “per Filium” of the Greek Fathers in the Second Nicene Ecuмenical Council. We have already seen also that, before Rome accepted the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed, Rome had already professed the dogma of the Filioque, confessing the Holy Spirit proceeds from Father and Son. Both Pope St. Damasus I and Pope St. Leo I, among several other Roman pontiffs, explicitly professed it. The Creed of St. Athanasius taught it. When Photius invented his Monopatrite theory, that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father to the exclusion of the Son, it became necessary to profess the dogma more explicitly against that heresy. Later on, many Eastern churches professed the dogma and became Catholic but were not always required to profess it in the Creed.

Objection V: Granting that the Creed could be elaborated on to explain a dogma more deeply, shouldn’t this be done at an ecuмenical council of both Greeks and Latins?

Since the pope added it to the Latin Creed only, and since without doubt the pope is the patriarch of the Latin Church, it doesn’t seem that there should have been an issue. But certainly, it could be done and has been done; that’s why the dignitaries of both the Greek and Russian Churches, as well as of Syrian and Oriental Churches, and the Armenian Apostolic Church, were invited to the Second Council of Lyons and the Council of Florence to come together with the Catholic Church and jointly accept the Profession of Faith of the Universal Church. But whatever the past may have been, Pope Francis and Patriarch Bartholomew have invited all Christians to gather together in 2025 at Nicaea, to commemorate its 1,700th anniversary. Therefore, by God’s Grace, Greek and Latin Churches can once more profess dogma together.

The solution adopted by Greek and Latin bishops and theologians from a few decades ago was this:

The Father only generates the Son by breathing (proballein in Greek) through him the Holy Spirit and the Son is only begotten by the Father insofar as the spiration (probolh in Greek) passes through him. The Father is Father of the One Son only by being for him and through him the origin of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit does not precede the Son, since the Son characterizes as Father the Father from whom the Spirit takes his origin, according to the Trinitarian order. But the spiration of the Spirit from the Father takes place by and through (the two senses of dia in Greek) the generation of the Son, to which it gives its Trinitarian character.

And thus, the solution to both the dogmatic and disciplinary difficulties should be clear. The only question now is whether the will to reunite is present or not.

Title: Re: The Filioque: A call to Orthodox to come home to Rome.
Post by: Nishant Xavier on July 30, 2019, 06:16:42 AM

Conclusion: A call to our separated brethren in the Eastern Orthodox churches to return soon to holy union with the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

Dear Orthodox Christians: A word from our hearts to yours — if we wish Christianity to successfully combat and entirely overcome the new paganism of the culture of death, of abortionism, contraception, divorce, pornography, and other forms of immorality and lawlessness, if we hope for the worldwide Church to receive more conversions from paganism and baptize more individuals into Christ and the Triune God, and make them members of the Church, the time to reunite is now and quickly.

The Immaculate Heart of Mary, the first defender of Christian civilization, alone warned the world about the dangers and errors of communism and the great persecutions threatening the Church and all Christendom. The history of the last century bears sad testimony to the truth of her words and the urgency of her calling. The time is ripe and the hour is now for the Greek and Russian Orthodox churches to profess the Filioque dogma and unite with the Catholic Church for the glory of God.

The world cannot resist the power and grace of a reunited Christendom. Victories in the pro-life movement, victories against Christian persecution, against Islamism, communism, and secularism await us. We have every reason to believe and hope Almighty God will Himself lead the effort to bring the Eastern Orthodox back to the Catholic Church, and His action will give the greatest impetus to world evangelism as has scarcely been seen since the first day of Pentecost. Deus vult. God wills it.

Also foretold in sacred Scripture is the return of the Jєωιѕн people to the Faith and to the Church of Jesus Christ. It is inconceivable that Christendom will not be visibly united by the time this happens, and that full reunion would be a glorious preparation for this glorious impending event.

May all Christians of East and West no longer be divided along sectarian lines and national or other denominations, but become One in the Universal or Catholic Church. And this so that, as the Scripture says, the whole world may believe that Jesus Christ is the Lord, and has been sent by the Father for the salvation of us all. “That they all may be one, as thou, Father, in me, and I in thee; that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that thou hast sent me” (Jn 17:21).

It would be ideal for popes and patriarchs to meet often, and for faithful Catholics and lay Orthodox to petition them for reunion. This would bring peace to the world and unity to Christendom and gladden the Heart of God so severely pierced. And thus we will welcome, with as minimal tribulation as reasonably possible, the reign of the Sacred Heart of Jesus and the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

Notes:

[1] Third Letter of St. Cyril to Nestorius, from an Orthodox source: https://orthodoxjointcommission.wordpress.com/2013/12/14/st-cyrils-third-letter-to-nestorius/ (https://orthodoxjointcommission.wordpress.com/2013/12/14/st-cyrils-third-letter-to-nestorius/)

See St. Cyril of Alexandria: Aeterna Press for the Greek text and for other places where the Saintly Patriarch of Alexandria develops the same doctrine.

[2] St. Robert Bellarmine, On the Procession of the Holy Spirit from the Son: http://www.catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/protestantism/procession.htm (http://www.catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/protestantism/procession.htm)

[3] Mansi II:868CD. Bishop St. Leontius of Caesarea was the personal friend of St. Gregory the Illuminator, the Apostle of Armenia.

[4] Mansi, XII, 1122 D. The Greek is transliterated “to Pneuma to agion, to kurion kai zwopoion, to ek tou Patros dia tou Uiou ekporeuomenon.”

[5] In Patrologia Latina, the reference is PL-10:250C-251A

[6] On the Holy Spirit, Book III, p. 153–154. Credit to Catholic Nick for this: http://catholicnick.blogspot.com/2011/12/filioque-proved-in-revelation-221.html (http://catholicnick.blogspot.com/2011/12/filioque-proved-in-revelation-221.html).

[7] St. Augustine, De Trinitate, Book 15, Ch. 26

[8] Treatise on the Holy Spirit, XVIII, 45, Sources chrétiennes 17 bis, p. 408

[9] Quaestiones ad Thalassium, LXIII, PG 90, 672 C

[10] Dialogus contra Manichaeos 5, PG 94, 1512 B, ed. B. Kotter, Berlin 1981, p. 354; cf. PG 94, 848-849 A

[11] Ad Domnum Marinum Cypri presbyterum (Letter to the priest Marinus of Cyprus), PG 91, 134D–136C

[12] Swete, H.B. On The History Of The Doctrine Of The Procession Of The Holy Spirit: From The Apostolic Age To The Death Of Charlemagne

[13] Schaff, Philip. History of the Christian Church. (1885)

[14] The Filioque: History of a Doctrinal Controversy, A. Edward Siecienski, pp. 56–57

[15] Patrologia Latina 13.374

[16] Cf. Leo I, Quam laudabiliter (447): DS 284

[17] Homiliarium in Evangelia Libri Duo 2.26 (Eng. Trans. Gregory the Great, Forty Gospel Homilies, trans. Dom David Hurst, page 202)

[18] The Greek and Latin Traditions regarding the Procession of the Holy Spirit: Study from the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity

Image (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/legalcode): Nheyob via Wikimedia Commons (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Holy_Trinity_Catholic_Church_(Trinity,_Indiana)_-_stained_glass,_Holy_Spirit_as_a_dove.jpg)."

There ends the article.

For us Catholic Christians, as Patriarch St. Athanasius, the venerable "Father of Orthodoxy" taught us in his Creed some 1650 years ago, even before Constantinople I Council, "The Catholic Faith is this, that we worship God in Trinity and Trinity in Unity: which Faith except every one does hold firmly and faithfully without doubt he will perish in eternity ... The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; not made or created, not begotten but proceeding... He therefore who will be saved, let him think thus on the Trinity". So taught St. Athanasius and all the East, St. Augustine and all the West, as well as Popes St. Damasus, Pope St. Leo and several other Popes uniterruptedly for more than 1,500 years. Let us thank God for the gift of our Catholic Faith, which we must persevere in to be saved, and pray all Orthodox Christians are soon happily united with us in Catholic Communion with the Apostolic Throne of St. Peter. Unity in Truth and Love is so dear to the holy Hearts of Jesus and Mary, as many Saints and Mystics have always testified, and so it should be to ours too.

Title: Re: The Filioque: A call to Orthodox to come home to Rome.
Post by: ByzCat3000 on August 02, 2019, 10:03:39 AM

In b4 you get crucified by everyone for referring to EOs as our separated brethren (I do agree with giving them that title, but some people wrongly think I'm crypto-EO lol) 

Title: Re: The Filioque: A call to Orthodox to come home to Rome.
Post by: forlorn on August 02, 2019, 10:58:46 AM

If only the "ecuмenists" were actually interested in real ecuмenism, trying to bring separated Churches back into the fold by debating and proving Catholic teaching, rather than the fake ecuмenism of just holding hands and singing Kumbaya. 

Title: Re: The Filioque: A call to Orthodox to come home to Rome.
Post by: confederate catholic on August 02, 2019, 12:02:30 PM

The filioque issue was settled at Florence, the EO who object to it are just obstinate heretics

Title: Re: The Filioque: A call to Orthodox to come home to Rome.
Post by: Ladislaus on August 02, 2019, 12:11:33 PM

Very nice article.

Of course, those Orthodox who persist in their schism on account of the "Filioque" problem are merely using it as an excuse.  There's nearly almost always something else beneath the surface that is the true source of heresy and schism ... something taking place in the will.  St. Thomas teaches that, since the intellect has truth for its natural end, there's often bad will behind clinging to error.  Now, simply holding error could be due to intellectual befuddlement caused by Original Sin, but clinging to error usually has bad will as the cause.

Title: Re: The Filioque: A call to Orthodox to come home to Rome.
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on August 02, 2019, 04:15:02 PM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athanasian_Creed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athanasian_Creed)

Title: Re: The Filioque: A call to Orthodox to come home to Rome.
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on August 02, 2019, 04:16:24 PM

Good article.  I like how you invited the people to come back.  

Title: Re: The Filioque: A call to Orthodox to come home to Rome.
Post by: MadonnaDolorosa on August 03, 2019, 12:30:19 AM

There are plenty of modernists among the Eastern Orthodox -- it's their perpetual schism and lack of coherent authority that kept them from having something equivalent to Vatican II. Last time they tried to have a council (2016) it was boycotted by the Patriarch of Antioch, Russia, Georgia, and Bulgaria. The OCA was not invited, because they're not even sure when one of their ethno-phyletist state-churches can be considered autocephalous. In the desiccated wasteland of the post-council Church, we observe many Catholics leave for the East, and then rationalize their ordained female deacons, birth control, and permission of the distinctly Islamic 3x allowance of divorce + Gnostic infuences. If we still had the Tridentine Mass in every Church, this phenomenon would not exist... their faith certainly *looks* more Apostolic than the Novus Ordo.

Title: Re: The Filioque: A call to Orthodox to come home to Rome.
Post by: Last Tradhican on August 03, 2019, 03:14:10 AM

Quote

The Filioque: A call to Orthodox to come home to Rome. (https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/the-filioque-a-call-to-orthodox-to-come-home-to-rome/msg661122/#msg661122)

The problem is that Rome is occupied by the Vatican II sect, a bad example to the Eastern Orthodox and anyone of good will who is seeking truth. 

Title: Re: The Filioque: A call to Orthodox to come home to Rome.
Post by: King Wenceslas on August 03, 2019, 11:16:42 AM

Quote from: Viva Cristo Rey on August 02, 2019, 04:16:24 PM

Good article.  I like how you invited the people to come back.  

Come back to what? Newchurch Rome? Francis? You have to have a functioning hierarchy to come back to or who is to decide that you have come back? The Church is made up of human beings with a functioning hierarchy not some pie in the sky untouchable entity.

Heck at this point in time the Orthodox are more Catholic than most Roman Catholics.

Title: Re: The Filioque: A call to Orthodox to come home to Rome.
Post by: forlorn on August 03, 2019, 11:22:44 AM

Quote from: King Wenceslas on August 03, 2019, 11:16:42 AM

Come back to what? Newchurch Rome? Francis? You have to have a functioning hierarchy to come back to or who is to decide that you have come back? The Church is made up of human beings with a functioning hierarchy not some pie in the sky untouchable entity.

Heck at this point in time the Orthodox are more Catholic than most Roman Catholics.

This is the crux of the problem. It's very hard to try and convert people to Catholicism when you also have to tell them that the vast majority of the Church's hierarchy aren't really Catholic. "More Catholic than the Pope" used to just be a joke, now it's very much serious and it's hard to get converts to believe you. 

Title: Re: The Filioque: A call to Orthodox to come home to Rome.
Post by: King Wenceslas on August 03, 2019, 11:26:54 AM

Quote from: MadonnaDolorosa on August 03, 2019, 12:30:19 AM

There are plenty of modernists among the Eastern Orthodox -- it's their perpetual schism and lack of coherent authority that kept them from having something equivalent to Vatican II. Last time they tried to have a council (2016) it was boycotted by the Patriarch of Antioch, Russia, Georgia, and Bulgaria. The OCA was not invited, because they're not even sure when one of their ethno-phyletist state-churches can be considered autocephalous. In the desiccated wasteland of the post-council Church, we observe many Catholics leave for the East, and then rationalize their ordained female deacons, birth control, and permission of the distinctly Islamic 3x allowance of divorce + Gnostic infuences. If we still had the Tridentine Mass in every Church, this phenomenon would not exist... their faith certainly *looks* more Apostolic than the Novus Ordo.

That is the whole point. Who in their right mind would turn themselves over to Newchurch Rome since they have at least held onto the Apostolic traditions? What do they see over here? A wasteland.

They look at the Roman church and they see Francis. In their minds they must be saying, "Thank God we are not part of that!"

Title: Re: The Filioque: A call to Orthodox to come home to Rome.
Post by: King Wenceslas on August 03, 2019, 11:52:28 AM

First-Ever Novus Ordo Baptismal Certificate issued naming “Mother 1” and “Mother 2” as Child’s Parents

(https://novusordowatch.org/wp-content/uploads/lesbian-child-baptism-medellin.png)

The archdiocese of Medellín, Colombia, is the latest in which has taken place the solemn baptism of a child whose legally recognized “parents” are two lesbian women who are “married” to each other. The scandal occurred this past weekend, and the regional media are all over it, celebrating this as a victory for the perverted LGBT movement.


So just what would the Orthodox be coming back too?? Francis's Newchurch of course.

Title: Re: The Filioque: A call to Orthodox to come home to Rome.
Post by: Nishant Xavier on August 09, 2019, 08:38:01 AM

Thanks, everyone for your comments and responses. It will be very wonderful if the Orthodox happily return to Catholic Unity with the Holy Roman Church, which is the Mother of all the Churches, as the Council of Trent teaches us. When the Traditional Latin Mass was returned, it was Russian Orthodox Patriarch Alexei of Moscow who was one of the first to strongly support the right decision of the Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI, whereas even some shameless liberal so-called Catholic Bishops opposed it. The Orthodox are staunch Litirgical Traditionalists. They just have one or two confusions on a few doctrinal matters mainly because of one ot two bad Patriarchs.

Nearly 350 million Christians now live in this Schism, and what a Glorious Victory it will be for the Catholic Church and all Christendom were they to return. It's what Our Immaculate Mother asked for and promised at Fatima, as the best way to counter modern atheism, secularism and paganism

The below is from Pope Eugene IV's rejoicing Bull decreeing Holy Union with the Orthodox after the Council of Florence. While happily 22 sui iuris Eastern Churches still remain in full Catholic Communion with Rome, unfortunately, the greatly longed for and earnestly desired Union did not last.

May God grant we live to see the Union achieved. 1274 in Lyons II was the first attempt. Florence in 1438-1435 was the second. There may be a third attempt at Nicaea (for its seventeenth hundred anniversary) in 2025, per the Popes and Patriarchs.

"From: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laetentur_Caeli (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laetentur_Caeli)

Council of Florence (XVII Ecuмenical), Session 6 — 6 July 1439

[Definition of the holy ecuмenical synod of Florence, presided by Pope Eugenius IV]

Eugenius, bishop, servant of the servants of God, for an everlasting record. With the agreement of our most dear son John Palaeologus, illustrious emperor of the Romans, of the deputies of our venerable brothers the patriarchs and of other representatives of the eastern church, to the following.

Let the heavens be glad and let the earth rejoice. For, the wall that divided the western and the eastern church has been removed, peace and harmony have returned, since the corner-stone, Christ, who made both one, has joined both sides with a very strong bond of love and peace, uniting and holding them together in a covenant of everlasting unity. After a long haze of grief and a dark and unlovely gloom of long-enduring strife, the radiance of hoped-for union has illuminated all.

Let Mother Church also rejoice. For she now beholds her sons hitherto in disagreement returned to unity and peace, and she who hitherto wept at their separation now gives thanks to God with inexpressible joy at their truly marvellous harmony. Let all the faithful throughout the world, and those who go by the name of Christian, be glad with mother catholic church. For behold, western and eastern fathers after a very long period of disagreement and discord, submitting themselves to the perils of sea and land and having endured labours of all kinds, came together in this holy ecuмenical council, joyful and eager in their desire for this most holy union and to restore intact the ancient love. In no way have they been frustrated in their intent. After a long and very toilsome investigation, at last by the clemency of the holy Spirit they have achieved this greatly desired and most holy union. Who, then, can adequately thank God for his gracious gifts?' Who would not stand amazed at the riches of such great divine mercy? Would not even an iron breast be softened by this immensity of heavenly condescension?

These truly are works of God, not devices of human frailty. Hence they are to be accepted with extraordinary veneration and to be furthered with praises to God. To you praise, to you glory, to you thanks, O Christ, source of mercies, who have bestowed so much good on your spouse the catholic church and have manifested your miracles of mercy in our generation, so that all should proclaim your wonders. Great indeed and divine is the gift that God has bestowed on us. We have seen with our eyes what many before greatly desired yet could not behold.

For when Latins and Greeks came together in this holy synod, they all strove that, among other things, the article about the procession of the holy Spirit should be discussed with the utmost care and assiduous investigation. Texts were produced from divine scriptures and many authorities of eastern and western holy doctors, some saying the holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son, others saying the procession is from the Father through the Son. All were aiming at the same meaning in different words. The Greeks asserted that when they claim that the holy Spirit proceeds from the Father, they do not intend to exclude the Son; but because it seemed to them that the Latins assert that the holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son as from two principles and two spirations, they refrained from saying that the holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. The Latins asserted that they say the holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son not with the intention of excluding the Father from being the source and principle of all deity, that is of the Son and of the holy Spirit, nor to imply that the Son does not receive from the Father, because the holy Spirit proceeds from the Son, nor that they posit two principles or two spirations; but they assert that there is only one principle and a single spiration of the holy Spirit, as they have asserted hitherto. Since, then, one and the same meaning resulted from all this, they unanimously agreed and consented to the following holy and God-pleasing union, in the same sense and with one mind.

In the name of the holy Trinity, Father, Son and holy Spirit, we define, with the approval of this holy universal council of Florence, that the following truth of faith shall be believed and accepted by all Christians and thus shall all profess it: that the holy Spirit is eternally from the Father and the Son, and has his essence and his subsistent being from the Father together with the Son, and proceeds from both eternally as from one principle and a single spiration. We declare that when holy doctors and fathers say that the holy Spirit proceeds from the Father through the Son, this bears the sense that thereby also the Son should be signified, according to the Greeks indeed as cause, and according to the Latins as principle of the subsistence of the holy Spirit, just like the Father.

And since the Father gave to his only-begotten Son in begetting him everything the Father has, except to be the Father, so the Son has eternally from the Father, by whom he was eternally begotten, this also, namely that the holy Spirit proceeds from the Son."

Title: Re: The Filioque: A call to Orthodox to come home to Rome.
Post by: Ascetik on August 09, 2019, 08:49:04 AM

They also need to renounce their errors on divorce and remarriage. Their errors of Hesychasm where the heretic Palamas adds another person to the Holy Trinity essentially making them polytheists by divinizing the *Energies*.

The EO are not only schismatic but polytheistic heretics at this point.

Title: Re: The Filioque: A call to Orthodox to come home to Rome.
Post by: Ladislaus on August 09, 2019, 09:15:04 AM

Quote from: XavierSem on August 09, 2019, 08:38:01 AM

They just have one or two confusions on a few doctrinal matters mainly because of one ot two bad Patriarchs.

Confusions?

Title: Re: The Filioque: A call to Orthodox to come home to Rome.
Post by: ByzCat3000 on August 09, 2019, 11:00:03 AM

Quote from: King Wenceslas on August 03, 2019, 11:16:42 AM

Come back to what? Newchurch Rome? Francis? You have to have a functioning hierarchy to come back to or who is to decide that you have come back? The Church is made up of human beings with a functioning hierarchy not some pie in the sky untouchable entity.

Heck at this point in time the Orthodox are more Catholic than most Roman Catholics.

A lot of people have this objection ,but its strange to me.  Why do we have to have a hierarchy that isn't terrible?  Did God promise us that we'd never have bad rulers?  I'm just not convinced of that, so it was never a major stumbling block to me.

Admittedly the liturgical devastation is a bigger one than the hierarchical one, since it does impact the way real people live and practice the faith to a greater degree than the Pope does.

Title: Re: The Filioque: A call to Orthodox to come home to Rome.
Post by: Nishant Xavier on September 18, 2019, 04:33:17 PM

Quote from: ByzCat3000 on August 09, 2019, 11:00:03 AM

A lot of people have this objection ,but its strange to me.  Why do we have to have a hierarchy that isn't terrible?  Did God promise us that we'd never have bad rulers?  I'm just not convinced of that, so it was never a major stumbling block to me.

Admittedly the liturgical devastation is a bigger one than the hierarchical one, since it does impact the way real people live and practice the faith to a greater degree than the Pope does.

Right, ByzCath. St. John Eudes says Bad Shepherds are a chastisement for the sins of the people; the solution is to return to living very holy lives, so that God will then send us Good Shepherds. This is easily proven from Scripture also, "‘THE MOST EVIDENT MARK of God’s anger and the most terrible castigation He can inflict upon the world are manifested when He permits His people to fall into the hands of clerics’ who are priests more in name than in deed, priests who practice the cruelty of ravening wolves rather than the charity and affection of devoted shepherds ... When God permits such things, it is a very positive proof that He is thoroughly angry with His people, and is visiting His most dreadful anger upon them. That is why He cries unceasingly to Christians, “Return, 0 ye revolting children . . . and I will give you pastors according to my own heart” (Jer. 3, 14-15). Thus, irregularities in the lives of priests constitute a scourge visited upon the people in consequence of sin.’
Good priests are a sign of God’s mercy
St John Eudes then goes on to examine the signs of good priests, and their value in God’s sight. Here is a selection of some of the qualities of God priests that are particularly needed in these times, which are a sign of divine grace:
On the other hand, the greatest effect of God’s mercy, the most precious grace He bestows upon mankind, is to send worthy priests, men after His own heart, seeking only His glory and the salvation of souls. The greatest blessing that God bestows upon a church, the most signal manifestation of divine grace, is to have a saintly shepherd, be he bishop or priest. This is indeed the grace of graces and the most priceless of all gifts for it includes within itself every other blessing and grace. What is a priest after God’s heart? He is an inestimable treasure containing an immensity of good things." From: http://protectthepope.com/?p=10021 (http://protectthepope.com/?p=10021)

Now, to return to the Orthodox, there have historically been 5 issues (1) Filioque, this was raised by the schismatic Patriarch of Constantinople, Photius who opposed Pope St. Nicholas and Patriarch St. Ignatius, in the Ninth Century. (2) Azyme Bread, this was raised by Michael Caerularius in 1054, against Pope St. Innocent IX. Both were answered by St. Thomas in "Contra Errores Graecorum."

(3) Much later on, as at the Fifteenth Century Council of Florence, Mark of Ephesus, an Archbishop, invented another disagreement: Purgatory. Catholic writers adduced many Scriptural and Patristic Proofs of this Dogma, for e.g. from Pope St. Gregory the Great's Dialogues and St. Paul in 1 Cor 3:13-15. (4) Finally, a 19th Century Patriarchal Encyclical objected to the Immaculate Conception Dogma, after it had been defined by Pope Bl. Pius IX. Recent studies have shown that the Immaculate Conception was once widely believed and taught in the East, in both Constantinople and Moscow, even long after Florence, before they later fell into heresy on it.

(5) Finally, some add the Essence-Energies issue, although this did not figure prominently in Florence. What happens is that the word for "energies" in Greek Fathers like St. Maximus and St. Cyril is usually translated "operations" by western translators. These are all relatively deeper areas of theology. For e.g. "God's activity outside of himself. Also called divine activity ad extra in contrast with divine activity within the Trinity. The Fourth Lateran Council and the Council of Florence teach that all of God's activity outside the trinity is done simultaneously and equally by all three persons. Thus everything that God does in the world of creatures, whether naturally or supernaturally, is the operation of all three divine persons." https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/dictionary/index.cfm?id=33161 (https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/dictionary/index.cfm?id=33161) This last point is one I relied on in the article.

Then, of course, the moral ones, like formal acceptance of contraception, totally contrary to all the Church Fathers unanimously.

Anyway, the main thing is this - Our Lady of Fatima has told us that the way to bring Peace to the world is through the Consecration of Russia by the Pope and the Bishops, and by the Orthodox returning to full Re-Union with the Catholic Church. We ought to believe Her words, and live by it, which means we ought not to separate from the Pope and the Bishops, but work under them for that Re-Union.

God bless.

Title: Re: The Filioque: A call to Orthodox to come home to Rome.
Post by: Mark 79 on September 18, 2019, 07:05:18 PM

Quote from: King Wenceslas on August 03, 2019, 11:16:42 AM

Heck at this point in time the Orthodox are more Catholic than most Roman Catholics.

Nonsense. The Orthodox are in at least as much trouble as the Novus Ordo.
Track the Twitter feeds of MauricePinay and HereIsJorge back to about the beginning of this year. Both have been exposing Judaizing and occultism in Orthodoxy with fair regularity:
https://twitter.com/MauricePinay (https://twitter.com/MauricePinay)
https://twitter.com/HereIsJorge (https://twitter.com/HereIsJorge)