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Author Topic: The election of Cardinal Siri in 1958  (Read 8567 times)

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Offline Memento

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The election of Cardinal Siri in 1958
« Reply #90 on: October 31, 2013, 12:26:23 PM »
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  • Quote from: LoverOfTradition
    Quote from: Geremia
    Quote from: LoverOfTradition
    Wow! Thank you so much for this. Lots to dwell on here.
    It seems the people on this forum are much more open to giving Apocalypse a thorough study. Many on the other forums I posted this just write Apocalypse off as "the least understood book of the Bible," but, like any divinely inspired text, it has one literal sense, and there is a consensus amongst the Fathers on much of it.

    E.g., it's 100% certain the "man child, who was to rule all nations with an iron rod" is not Christ but a Pope. It's also 100% certain "The woman of chapter twelve is not the Blessed Virgin Mary," since it is not true of Our Lady that "she cried travailing in birth, and was in pain to be delivered," as she didn't have a painful labor, being free of original sin and its punishments.


    I'm very open to this. I find it interesting.

    To think, Cardinal Siri might actually be in the Book of Revelation. I always thought it was Christ, since we can say he does rule all nations, couldn't we? Think of the Social Kingship of Christ. As for the Pope, think of the Papal Tiara, one of the meanings behind it was his temporal reign. As we know, Pope Paul VI abandoned it. Just an observation.


    This makes me think that a great thread for discussion would be the study of the commentaries on the Apocalypse Chapter 12 with the idea we draw parallels from those approved commentaries to our own times.  

    I started looking at The Book of Destiny again yesterday and it was jaw dropping how many recognizable situations are in that book.

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    The election of Cardinal Siri in 1958
    « Reply #91 on: October 31, 2013, 12:27:46 PM »
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  • I'm pretty sure Father Kramer is more reliable than the Dimonds.  I recant my statement.  But I do believe Apocalypse 12 could refer to our Lady, at least in a secondary sense.  That has been the sentiment, that it refers to the Church and our Lady, but that does not discount that it specifically in detail refers to what Father Kramer speaks of.  
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church


    Offline Geremia

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    The election of Cardinal Siri in 1958
    « Reply #92 on: October 31, 2013, 12:57:49 PM »
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  • Quote from: Memento
    This makes me think that a great thread for discussion would be the study of the commentaries on the Apocalypse Chapter 12 with the idea we draw parallels from those approved commentaries to our own times.
    Fr. Berry's Apocalypse commentary is another good one.
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    Offline Geremia

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    The election of Cardinal Siri in 1958
    « Reply #93 on: October 31, 2013, 01:10:16 PM »
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  • Quote from: Lover of Truth
    I'm pretty sure Father Kramer is more reliable than the Dimonds.  I recant my statement.  But I do believe Apocalypse 12 could refer to our Lady, at least in a secondary sense.  That has been the sentiment, that it refers to the Church and our Lady, but that does not discount that it specifically in detail refers to what Father Kramer speaks of.  
    Interestingly, Pope St. Pius X wrote in his encyclical on the Immaculate Conception, Ad Diem Illum Laetissimum:
    Quote from: Pope St. Pius X
    24. Leaving aside charity towards God, who can contemplate the Immaculate Virgin without feeling moved to fulfill that precept which Christ called peculiarly His own, namely that of loving one another as He loved us? "A great sign," thus the Apostle St. John describes a vision divinely sent him, appears in the heavens: "A woman clothed with the sun, and with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars upon her head" (Apoc. xii., 1). Everyone knows that this woman signified the Virgin Mary, the stainless one who brought forth our Head. The Apostle continues: "And, being with child, she cried travailing in birth, and was in pain to be delivered" (Apoc. xii., 2). John therefore saw the Most Holy Mother of God already in eternal happiness, yet travailing in a mysterious childbirth. What birth was it? Surely it was the birth of us who, still in exile, are yet to be generated to the perfect charity of God, and to eternal happiness. And the birth pains show the love and desire with which the Virgin from heaven above watches over us, and strives with unwearying prayer to bring about the fulfillment of the number of the elect.
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    Offline Lover of Truth

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    The election of Cardinal Siri in 1958
    « Reply #94 on: October 31, 2013, 01:13:07 PM »
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  • Quote from: Geremia
    Quote from: Lover of Truth
    I'm pretty sure Father Kramer is more reliable than the Dimonds.  I recant my statement.  But I do believe Apocalypse 12 could refer to our Lady, at least in a secondary sense.  That has been the sentiment, that it refers to the Church and our Lady, but that does not discount that it specifically in detail refers to what Father Kramer speaks of.  
    Interestingly, Pope St. Pius X wrote in his encyclical on the Immaculate Conception, Ad Diem Illum Laetissimum:
    Quote from: Pope St. Pius X
    24. Leaving aside charity towards God, who can contemplate the Immaculate Virgin without feeling moved to fulfill that precept which Christ called peculiarly His own, namely that of loving one another as He loved us? "A great sign," thus the Apostle St. John describes a vision divinely sent him, appears in the heavens: "A woman clothed with the sun, and with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars upon her head" (Apoc. xii., 1). Everyone knows that this woman signified the Virgin Mary, the stainless one who brought forth our Head. The Apostle continues: "And, being with child, she cried travailing in birth, and was in pain to be delivered" (Apoc. xii., 2). John therefore saw the Most Holy Mother of God already in eternal happiness, yet travailing in a mysterious childbirth. What birth was it? Surely it was the birth of us who, still in exile, are yet to be generated to the perfect charity of God, and to eternal happiness. And the birth pains show the love and desire with which the Virgin from heaven above watches over us, and strives with unwearying prayer to bring about the fulfillment of the number of the elect.


    Thanks!  I thought I was standing on pretty sure ground and that Father Kramer himself would have agreed.  
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church


    Offline Memento

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    The election of Cardinal Siri in 1958
    « Reply #95 on: October 31, 2013, 02:30:17 PM »
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  • Quote from: Geremia
    Quote from: Lover of Truth
    I'm pretty sure Father Kramer is more reliable than the Dimonds.  I recant my statement.  But I do believe Apocalypse 12 could refer to our Lady, at least in a secondary sense.  That has been the sentiment, that it refers to the Church and our Lady, but that does not discount that it specifically in detail refers to what Father Kramer speaks of.  
    Interestingly, Pope St. Pius X wrote in his encyclical on the Immaculate Conception, Ad Diem Illum Laetissimum:
    Quote from: Pope St. Pius X
    24. Leaving aside charity towards God, who can contemplate the Immaculate Virgin without feeling moved to fulfill that precept which Christ called peculiarly His own, namely that of loving one another as He loved us? "A great sign," thus the Apostle St. John describes a vision divinely sent him, appears in the heavens: "A woman clothed with the sun, and with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars upon her head" (Apoc. xii., 1). Everyone knows that this woman signified the Virgin Mary, the stainless one who brought forth our Head. The Apostle continues: "And, being with child, she cried travailing in birth, and was in pain to be delivered" (Apoc. xii., 2). John therefore saw the Most Holy Mother of God already in eternal happiness, yet travailing in a mysterious childbirth. What birth was it? Surely it was the birth of us who, still in exile, are yet to be generated to the perfect charity of God, and to eternal happiness. And the birth pains show the love and desire with which the Virgin from heaven above watches over us, and strives with unwearying prayer to bring about the fulfillment of the number of the elect.




    Yes, this makes sense because The Woman in Gen. 3:15 is also the Blessed Virgin Mary.

    But in the case of the commentaries in discussion, Fr. E. Sylvester Berry concurs with Fr. Kramer and identifies "a woman" as The Church. He too describes the conflict over the Pope..." a particular son of the Church whose power and influence shall be such that Satan will seek his destruction at any cost.  This person can be none other than the Pope to be elected in those days. The Papacy will be attacked by all the powers of hell.  In consequence the Church will suffer great trials and afflictions in securing a successor upon the throne of Peter." pg. 121

    Offline Memento

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    The election of Cardinal Siri in 1958
    « Reply #96 on: October 31, 2013, 02:46:17 PM »
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  • Read it and weep. It is as if Fr. Berry was seeing our present situation in front of his face.

    Go to around page 120or 121 and continue reading:  http://www.strobertbellarmine.net/books/Berry--Apocalypse.pdf

    Offline Geremia

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    The election of Cardinal Siri in 1958
    « Reply #97 on: October 31, 2013, 03:42:15 PM »
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  • Quote from: Memento
    Read it and weep. It is as if Fr. Berry was seeing our present situation in front of his face.

    Go to around page 120or 121 and continue reading:  http://www.strobertbellarmine.net/books/Berry--Apocalypse.pdf
    Fr. Berry's commentary on Apocalypse 12 begins here.
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    Offline Thursday

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    The election of Cardinal Siri in 1958
    « Reply #98 on: November 03, 2013, 06:44:50 PM »
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  • Hi Geremia,

    Don't have a lot of time but I'll try to answer a few of your queries.

    1. Although I don't have the exact quote on me Cardinal Siri said that he would take the name Gregory a few months before the 1958 election, it was published before the conclave in a religious periodical and then again in the the il pentagano vaticano.

    2. Why did Cardinal Siri accepted the anti-popes? There are several reasons he would, first of all John XXIII was old and Cardinal Siri would stand a chance at the next election, a much better position than if he was kicked out. Secondly, he was unknown and wouldn't have had much support.  Thirdly, I think that Siri saw the decline starting 800 years ago with the abandonment of Thomistic reasoning in exchange for descartes, the protestant reformation darwinism and eventually the sacraments being lost as a result. In contrast some traditionalists feel that the problem is only with the mass. Finally, I'm not convinced that Cardinal Siri fully accepted these other popes but did so publicly to keep his position. One example of this is where he said it would take 50 years to recover from the papacy of John XXIII. He also called Vatican II the greatest mistake in history so, to me, it looks like he chose to fight from within and I will post two article to support that and what I've said above.

    3. I'm not so sure about the threats, I think it was other methods. And I also think it was their plan to elect him and cast him aside and if he did not know it he certainly sensed the fix was in. One version of the events has a group of cardinals rebelling after he accepted and Siri saying in frustration (remember they had just elected him) "If you don't want me, elect someone else" and they took this as his abdication and proceeded to the stove to stop the white smoke.

    Offline Thursday

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    The election of Cardinal Siri in 1958
    « Reply #99 on: November 03, 2013, 06:56:01 PM »
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  • Cardinal Siri and The Dissent of Genoa
     
    In 1938 Pope Pius XI was quoted as saying "When today the Pope dies, you'll get another one tomorrow, because the Church continues. It would be a much bigger tragedy, if Cardinal Pacelli dies, because there is only one. I pray every day, God may send another one into one of our seminaries, but as of today, there is only one in this world."

    After the death of Pius XI, Cardinal Pacelli would become Pope Pius XII, and in 1953, he too would endorse a man for the papacy, 46-year-old Giuseppe Siri, Archbishop of Genoa. As Pius XII made Siri a Cardinal, placing the red hat on his head, a reporter in attendance remarked “this is an historic moment, the Pope meets the next Pope.” In fact, Siri wrote in his now published personal diary, “Pius XII said I had to succeed him, and was preparing for me the same system that Pius XI had prepared for him.”
     
    Local clergy in Genoa also testify that in the years before the 1958 Conclave, Siri was “seriously preparing himself to succeed Pius XII by keeping up with his languages and studying to remain abreast of all the necessary branches of knowledge.”
           
    What happened then, for those who don’t know, was that on the first day of the 1958  Conclave, 5 minutes of white smoke(1) billowed from atop the Sistine Chapel signaling that a new Pope had been elected. But the new Pope never appeared, and two days later Cardinal Angelo Roncalli arrived on the balcony in St. Peter’s as Pope John XXIII, an unlikely choice for the Holy Ghost but the ideal one for the Communist~Masonic infiltrators and their backers. Roncalli, a Freemason(2), even had the all-seeing-eye engraved on his pectoral cross.

    As to who was elected 2 days prior, the evidence points to Cardinal Siri, whose pontificate was suppressed to clear the way for Vatican II and the new mass. And the changes started almost immediately after the Conclave while Siri, the lawful Pope, was more or less confined to his diocese of Genoa. Recently, this idea has been ridiculed buy some who produced pictures of Cardinal Siri and John Paul II together as well as Siri saying the new mass. It’s hard to imagine how one could take these arguments seriously as a standard photo op is rarely a place where people show their true cards, but nonetheless it prompted a more thorough investigation of Cardinal Siri’s legacy in Genoa to gauge just how much Siri accepted these things.
           
    Before looking at Siri’s record in Genoa, let me point out that the two biggest objections to Cardinal Siri having been elected pope is that he celebrated the new mass and that he acknowledged the other Popes. I’d answer that his acknowledgment of the other Popes was superficial, and that he really had no use for the new mass even though he did celebrate it on at least one occasion. Instead of debating pictures though, let’s hear what the Genoese have to say, after all, he was their archbishop for over 40 years. And why not start with a bit of testimony from a disgruntled Genoese priest who entered the seminary in 1964 and served for 40 years until his recent banishment.  Father Paolo Farinello, who has no love for Cardinal Siri or for tradition writes in his 2007 book,

    “Cardinal Siri, in fact, has never hidden his denigration of the Council and the liturgical reform in particular. In any way he obstructs its implementation in the diocese … We (the seminarians) were trembling with the spirit of the council and each time he (Siri) castrated our passionate enthusiasm by ensuring us that it would take fifty years to remedy the Vatican … He inoculated us unsuspecting with the suspicion that Pope Paul VI was not an orthodox Pope.”

    Farinello writes in another article more recently,

    Siri told us ‘do not say the new mass in my diocese, I did not vote for these changes.’”
     
    Notice in the first excerpt that he says we were “inoculated unsuspecting that Paul VI was not an orthodox Pope” From this we can infer that Siri was actively resisting the changes in the Church but was doing so covertly, as opposed to his contemporary Archbishop Lefebvre, founder of the SSPX, who did so in the open. There are several reasons why Siri would take this approach, one would be his proximity to the seat of power in Rome and his chance to become Pope at a future conclave. Secondly, he saw the struggle for the Catholic Church as a long term affair that was not going to be settled in his lifetime.

    But let’s look at some other records in order to put the idea that Siri accepted Vatican II and the new popes to rest for good. An exchange between Cardinal Siri and Cardinal Sebastiano Baccio (who appears on many lists of Freemasons in the Vatican ) was published recently in the Italian daily, Il Stampa,

    "They say that once the old curial Cardinal, Sebastiano Baggio, prefect of the powerful Congregation for Bishops in the last phase of the pontificate of Paul VI and the beginning of that of John Paul II, accused Cardinal Siri of growing his seminarians and priests as an island separate from the body of the Italian Church, and that this was not taken into account when they were made bishops. ‘Yes, it's true’ - Siri would respond – ‘we are an island, but my own I taught to swim.’"
     
    And yet another quote from the Italian publication, Vatican Insider,

    "Under Siri, the most faithful and authoritative interpreter of the pontificate of Pius XII, Genoa became the stronghold of the defense of Christianity and the cardinal point of reference for a church closer to tradition than innovation, leading it to its isolation from the rest of the country, particularly after the Council."


    And there is no shortage of quotes from Siri himself, in his interviews with Benny Lai, for example he said that Vatican II “was the worst mistake in history.” He said it would “take the Church 50 years to recover from the pontificate of John XXIII” and many other statements that reveal his true feelings regarding the new “popes” and there innovations.

    So my advice to those trying to grapple with the apparent inconsistency with the photographs of Siri above and the thesis that Siri was the lawful pope, is to ponder Chinese Premier Zhou Enlai’s response when Henry Kissinger’s asked his thoughts  about the French revolution, “it’s too early to tell.” It’s now been forty odd years since Vatican II and the promulgation of Pope Paul VI’s new mass, and the trend towards novelties is long behind us. The traditional seminaries of the SSPX are full to the brim with new vocations and many mainstream Catholics are abandoning their scandal ridden churches for independent traditional parishes, meanwhile, in Italy, a former Siri disciple was just promoted to the See of Venice, a See that produced 3 popes in the last hundred years. And there are the other Siri disciples recently appointed to key positions in the Vatican, Cardinal Bagnasco, President of the Italian Bishops Conference (CEI), Mauro Piacenza, Prefect of the Congregation for the Clergy, and Domenico Calcagno, President of the Apostolic Administration of Assets. Did Cardinal Siri teach his men to swim in the flood of infiltration and modernism with the long range view that they would be positioned to take back the reigns of power when the tide turned against the usurpers? Word from Italy certainly suggests so. And perhaps it will be Cardinal Siri of Genoa, unknown to the outside world throughout his pontificate, who gets the last laugh when the best laid plans of the Anti-Church crumble like the Tower of Babel.

    (1)    Footage of the 1958 white smoke
    (2)    November 12, 2002 Portugal Daily reports that “Virgilio Guito, former head of the Italian Grande Oriente Masonic Lodges, in a statement published by the French newspaper “30 Days”, said: It seems that Pope John XXIII has been initiated in Paris, and participated in the works of the Lodges in Istanbul.”

    Offline Thursday

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    The election of Cardinal Siri in 1958
    « Reply #100 on: November 03, 2013, 07:00:32 PM »
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  • As to why Cardinal Siri did not publically support Lefebvre, I think this interview sheds some light on the subject.  The last paragraph is key...

    "No doubt, but he realized he could not go forward because this matter was not understood even by the traditionalists. It seemed to them that the whole controversy concerned the Latin Mass and the real problem was linked to the eighth commandment, the truth. Once again, the Cardinal was right and, above all, he had seen far away. He understood that in the logic of the left there is no being, no sense of reality, and that the ideology, the Cartesian cogito, is totally subjective."



    To me it seems that Siri knew that the real problem was the lack of truth, or more exactly the loss of peoples ability to discern truth. Perhaps the destruction of the mass is not the central issue but rather  the fruit of the general decline that started 800 years ago. Furthermore, Siri saw that the errors of V2, the new mass, etc. would not become obvious until well after his death.

    2006 interview with Peppino Orlando of Genoa, religious writer and long time friend of Cardinal Siri
    "My meeting with Cardinal Siri was at the Citadel, the Pro Civitate of Assisi, where I studied theology for three and a half years, from '58 to '61. Two retreats were dictated to the volunteers by the Cardinal. In this little chapel where we met, Siri was revealed for what he really was: a man of faith, a theologian and man of culture, trying to understand what made a genuine spiritual formation. I was very impressed by these encounters to the point that I asked for an interview with him. The first question he answered, I still remember, it was this. "Your Eminence, I said, what is the key thing that those who want to Christian culture must have?" I figured he would pull out, for example, the Bible. But, he said, ontology, logic and ontology. Without those you cannot possibly go to the Bible, which is the subject of Logos. "Remember, Orlando” - I still remember the words with which he concluded his speech – “that where there is no logic, grace cannot take root." Not surprisingly, modern philosophy, Kant, Hegel and Marx, attacked logic and ontology, indeed, first they attacked the ontology and then the logic.
    "Today you are convinced of the validity of this teaching?"
    Absolutely . I have remained faithful to this speech. For me, philosophy, spirituality and theology must always be together. Indeed, despite the chaos in which at some point I dived, namely participation Catholic dissent, this was the lifeboat that brought me out of the left.
    "What had Siri observed of the world of the left?”
    "Without doubt, the illogicalness and the lack of sense of being and of reality. That sense of reality, however, the Cardinal possessed as did the president of Confindustria at the time, Angelo Costa, who I am connected by marriage. Economics, yes, but after the economy the ten commandments. In fact, I often wondered why Siri insisted so much on the eighth. Do not bear false witness.
    "Did you get an explanation?"
    Certainly. The cardinal wanted to emphasize the absolute value of truth. Another of those values which formed a kind of red thread throughout my life. And this was noticed by my old master of Assisi, which, who, despite my position of leftist dissent of those years, had given orders that I be received in the archbishopric. I remember the discontent of many priests and monsignors, being passed up for an interview with Siri. And I also remember the "grumbles" for example, that His Eminence received more enemies than ever faithful servants of the Church. But anyhow. For me there was always free passage.
    "And what were you talking about in those meetings?"
    The Church, the contentions. Friendship with Siri gave me those counter-poisons that, in the long run, would allow me to get out of the left itself. Just that - and that Siri had well understood - the Church of that time and, unfortunately, which today lacks the pope. The Pope is not only the bishop of Rome, but he who holds the authority of government and education, and that strengthens the faith of his brothers. The Council and Paul VI, however, refused the tiara, had somehow deprived the pope of the power of jurisdiction. In short, we have moved from the monarchical principle of Peter in this collegiality, which is based on opinion only.
    “Siri therefore had perceived the danger of a loss of the infallible authority of the pope?”
    No doubt, but he realized he could not go forward because this matter was not understood even by the traditionalists. It seemed to them that the whole controversy concerned the Latin Mass and the real problem was linked to the eighth commandment, the truth. Once again, the Cardinal was right and, above all, he had seen far away. He understood that in the logic of the left there is no being, no sense of reality, and that the ideology, the Cartesian cogito, is totally subjective."


    Offline Memento

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    The election of Cardinal Siri in 1958
    « Reply #101 on: November 13, 2013, 12:22:05 PM »
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  • Quote from: Thursday
    Cardinal Siri and The Dissent of Genoa
     
    In 1938 Pope Pius XI was quoted as saying "When today the Pope dies, you'll get another one tomorrow, because the Church continues. It would be a much bigger tragedy, if Cardinal Pacelli dies, because there is only one. I pray every day, God may send another one into one of our seminaries, but as of today, there is only one in this world."

    After the death of Pius XI, Cardinal Pacelli would become Pope Pius XII, and in 1953, he too would endorse a man for the papacy, 46-year-old Giuseppe Siri, Archbishop of Genoa. As Pius XII made Siri a Cardinal, placing the red hat on his head, a reporter in attendance remarked “this is an historic moment, the Pope meets the next Pope.” In fact, Siri wrote in his now published personal diary, “Pius XII said I had to succeed him, and was preparing for me the same system that Pius XI had prepared for him.”
     
    Local clergy in Genoa also testify that in the years before the 1958 Conclave, Siri was “seriously preparing himself to succeed Pius XII by keeping up with his languages and studying to remain abreast of all the necessary branches of knowledge.”
           
    What happened then, for those who don’t know, was that on the first day of the 1958  Conclave, 5 minutes of white smoke(1) billowed from atop the Sistine Chapel signaling that a new Pope had been elected. But the new Pope never appeared, and two days later Cardinal Angelo Roncalli arrived on the balcony in St. Peter’s as Pope John XXIII, an unlikely choice for the Holy Ghost but the ideal one for the Communist~Masonic infiltrators and their backers. Roncalli, a Freemason(2), even had the all-seeing-eye engraved on his pectoral cross.

    As to who was elected 2 days prior, the evidence points to Cardinal Siri, whose pontificate was suppressed to clear the way for Vatican II and the new mass. And the changes started almost immediately after the Conclave while Siri, the lawful Pope, was more or less confined to his diocese of Genoa. Recently, this idea has been ridiculed buy some who produced pictures of Cardinal Siri and John Paul II together as well as Siri saying the new mass. It’s hard to imagine how one could take these arguments seriously as a standard photo op is rarely a place where people show their true cards, but nonetheless it prompted a more thorough investigation of Cardinal Siri’s legacy in Genoa to gauge just how much Siri accepted these things.
           
    Before looking at Siri’s record in Genoa, let me point out that the two biggest objections to Cardinal Siri having been elected pope is that he celebrated the new mass and that he acknowledged the other Popes. I’d answer that his acknowledgment of the other Popes was superficial, and that he really had no use for the new mass even though he did celebrate it on at least one occasion. Instead of debating pictures though, let’s hear what the Genoese have to say, after all, he was their archbishop for over 40 years. And why not start with a bit of testimony from a disgruntled Genoese priest who entered the seminary in 1964 and served for 40 years until his recent banishment.  Father Paolo Farinello, who has no love for Cardinal Siri or for tradition writes in his 2007 book,

    “Cardinal Siri, in fact, has never hidden his denigration of the Council and the liturgical reform in particular. In any way he obstructs its implementation in the diocese … We (the seminarians) were trembling with the spirit of the council and each time he (Siri) castrated our passionate enthusiasm by ensuring us that it would take fifty years to remedy the Vatican … He inoculated us unsuspecting with the suspicion that Pope Paul VI was not an orthodox Pope.”

    Farinello writes in another article more recently,

    Siri told us ‘do not say the new mass in my diocese, I did not vote for these changes.’”
     
    Notice in the first excerpt that he says we were “inoculated unsuspecting that Paul VI was not an orthodox Pope” From this we can infer that Siri was actively resisting the changes in the Church but was doing so covertly, as opposed to his contemporary Archbishop Lefebvre, founder of the SSPX, who did so in the open. There are several reasons why Siri would take this approach, one would be his proximity to the seat of power in Rome and his chance to become Pope at a future conclave. Secondly, he saw the struggle for the Catholic Church as a long term affair that was not going to be settled in his lifetime.

    But let’s look at some other records in order to put the idea that Siri accepted Vatican II and the new popes to rest for good. An exchange between Cardinal Siri and Cardinal Sebastiano Baccio (who appears on many lists of Freemasons in the Vatican ) was published recently in the Italian daily, Il Stampa,

    "They say that once the old curial Cardinal, Sebastiano Baggio, prefect of the powerful Congregation for Bishops in the last phase of the pontificate of Paul VI and the beginning of that of John Paul II, accused Cardinal Siri of growing his seminarians and priests as an island separate from the body of the Italian Church, and that this was not taken into account when they were made bishops. ‘Yes, it's true’ - Siri would respond – ‘we are an island, but my own I taught to swim.’"
     
    And yet another quote from the Italian publication, Vatican Insider,

    "Under Siri, the most faithful and authoritative interpreter of the pontificate of Pius XII, Genoa became the stronghold of the defense of Christianity and the cardinal point of reference for a church closer to tradition than innovation, leading it to its isolation from the rest of the country, particularly after the Council."


    And there is no shortage of quotes from Siri himself, in his interviews with Benny Lai, for example he said that Vatican II “was the worst mistake in history.” He said it would “take the Church 50 years to recover from the pontificate of John XXIII” and many other statements that reveal his true feelings regarding the new “popes” and there innovations.

    So my advice to those trying to grapple with the apparent inconsistency with the photographs of Siri above and the thesis that Siri was the lawful pope, is to ponder Chinese Premier Zhou Enlai’s response when Henry Kissinger’s asked his thoughts  about the French revolution, “it’s too early to tell.” It’s now been forty odd years since Vatican II and the promulgation of Pope Paul VI’s new mass, and the trend towards novelties is long behind us. The traditional seminaries of the SSPX are full to the brim with new vocations and many mainstream Catholics are abandoning their scandal ridden churches for independent traditional parishes, meanwhile, in Italy, a former Siri disciple was just promoted to the See of Venice, a See that produced 3 popes in the last hundred years. And there are the other Siri disciples recently appointed to key positions in the Vatican, Cardinal Bagnasco, President of the Italian Bishops Conference (CEI), Mauro Piacenza, Prefect of the Congregation for the Clergy, and Domenico Calcagno, President of the Apostolic Administration of Assets. Did Cardinal Siri teach his men to swim in the flood of infiltration and modernism with the long range view that they would be positioned to take back the reigns of power when the tide turned against the usurpers? Word from Italy certainly suggests so. And perhaps it will be Cardinal Siri of Genoa, unknown to the outside world throughout his pontificate, who gets the last laugh when the best laid plans of the Anti-Church crumble like the Tower of Babel.

    (1)    Footage of the 1958 white smoke
    (2)    November 12, 2002 Portugal Daily reports that “Virgilio Guito, former head of the Italian Grande Oriente Masonic Lodges, in a statement published by the French newspaper “30 Days”, said: It seems that Pope John XXIII has been initiated in Paris, and participated in the works of the Lodges in Istanbul.”


    This is all very hopeful news. It makes me glad to think something good can come out of Rome again someday.
    Thursday, can you tell us how you know these things?

    Offline Geremia

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    The election of Cardinal Siri in 1958
    « Reply #102 on: November 13, 2013, 12:59:58 PM »
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  • Quote from: Thursday
    To me it seems that Siri knew that the real problem was the lack of truth, or more exactly the loss of peoples ability to discern truth.
    Yes, his Gethsemane: Reflections on the Contemporary Theological Movement makes this evident.
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