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Author Topic: The Dimonds, the Devil, and the Willfully Duped  (Read 5101 times)

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Offline Lover of Truth

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Re: The Dimonds, the Devil, and the Willfully Duped
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2017, 01:41:13 PM »
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  • I have, from reliable teachers who teach what the Church teaches.

    So who exactly has the pope, or who has the V2 leaders bound to receiving the Eucharist while in an adulterous relationship?

    You're the one making the blatantly false accusation that the pope or V2 leaders bound something sacrilegious on "the Church" - so out with it already, who did they bind?
    A pope cannot officially allow it in an encyclical.  Do you know the difference between "allow" and "bind"?
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church


    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: The Dimonds, the Devil, and the Willfully Duped
    « Reply #16 on: July 18, 2017, 01:44:37 PM »
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  • Yes, why yes I do.

    YOU are the one who made the false claim that the pope or V2 leaders bound the Church, not me. To remind you of your error, I quoted you below.

    Quote
    A valid pope cannot bind on the Church that which is not safe.  The V2 leaders have done so.  For instance receiving the Eucharist while in an adulterous relationship does not lead one to heaven.  
    Remember now?
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: The Dimonds, the Devil, and the Willfully Duped
    « Reply #17 on: July 18, 2017, 01:46:46 PM »
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  • Yes, why yes I do.

    YOU are the one who made the false claim that the pope or V2 leaders bound the Church, not me. To remind you of your error, I quoted you below.
    Remember now?
    Then why do you keep asking me where a pope has bound on the faithful that they must receive the Eucharist while in an adulterous situation when I merely assert the a valid pope cannot allow such a thing?
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: The Dimonds, the Devil, and the Willfully Duped
    « Reply #18 on: July 18, 2017, 01:51:18 PM »
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  • Then why do you keep asking me where a pope has bound on the faithful that they must receive the Eucharist while in an adulterous situation when I merely assert the a valid pope cannot allow such a thing?
    But he did allow it. He (the valid pope) instigated the whole blasphemous idea. But, contrary to your version, he did not bind it on anyone, nor have the V2 leaders bound anyone to it.

    Why did you say the V2 leaders did such a thing when they didn't? Why did you say a pope cannot allow such a thing when he initiated it?
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: The Dimonds, the Devil, and the Willfully Duped
    « Reply #19 on: July 18, 2017, 01:56:13 PM »
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  • But he did allow it. He (the valid pope) instigated the whole blasphemous idea. But, contrary to your version, he did not bind it on anyone, nor have the V2 leaders bound anyone to it.

    Why did you say the V2 leaders did such a thing when they didn't? Why did you say a pope cannot allow such a thing when he initiated it?
    You have taken the insanity to a whole different level.  I thought Francis had reached the pinnacle.  You now claim a valid pope can allow anything under the sun in an official docuмent and it is okay so long as he doesn't bind it on anyone.  This is pure genius.  Absolutely incredible.  So Francis has to insist that we receive the Eucharist while in an adulterous situation in order for him to be invalid.  This is where we have come.  I guess I shouldn't be surprised.  Who knows maybe Francis will insist on this and then those not in an adulterous situation will no longer be able to receive the Eucharist.  I don't put anything past him.  Even if he did, people would still insist he is pope.  
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church


    Offline cassini

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    Re: The Dimonds, the Devil, and the Willfully Duped
    « Reply #20 on: July 18, 2017, 03:47:40 PM »
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  • Does this pertain to faith and morals?  Will I be damned for not knowing which thing spins around which?  Besides the issue has not been settled:
    http://www.ldolphin.org/geocentricity/Daly.pdf
    There isn't a neutral platform that doesn't move itself from which we can see what spins around what.  

    Now if anyone wanted a demonstration of a papal decree not only rejected but made a laugh of, here it is above. 'Will I be damned for not knowing which thing spins around which?' If you think that is what the 1616 decree was about then your idea of Catholic history is pretty lacking.

    To support his Catholic reasoning 'Lover of truth' offers an opinion of the sedevacantist Daly, because sedevacantism DEPENDS on them 'demoting' the decree enough to allow the popes from 1741 to believe in heliocentrism and to IGNORE the papal decree of 1616. Well Daly was not aware that the records of the 1820 Holy Office stated very clearly the 1616 was an irreversible papal decree. Now you can quote as many opinions as you like, but for me there is only one that set the law, Pope Paul V's followed by Pope Urban VIII's clarification of its infallibility. The day I let Einstein decide the authority of a papal decree like yourself, pigs will fly.

    As for the wise cracks, well they are also an insult to the theological wisdom of St Robert Bellarmine, the Cardinal who presided over the dogma that instructs us what the Scriptures say is true and of faith:

    Second. I say that, as you know, the Council of Trent prohibits expounding the Scriptures contrary to the common agreement of the holy Fathers. And if Your Reverence would read not only the Fathers but also the commentaries of modern writers on Genesis, Psalms, Ecclesiastes and Josue, you would find that all agree in explaining literally (ad litteram) that the sun is in the heavens and moves swiftly around the earth, and that the earth is far from the heavens and stands immobile in the centre of the universe. Now consider whether in all prudence the Church could encourage giving to Scripture a sense contrary to the holy Fathers and all the Latin and Greek commentators. Nor may it be answered that this is not a matter of faith, for if it is not a matter of faith from the point of view of the subject matter (ex parte objecti), it is a matter of faith on the part of the ones who have spoken (ex parte dicentis). It would be just as heretical to deny that Abraham had two sons and Jacob twelve, as it would be to deny the virgin birth of Christ, for both are declared by the Holy Ghost through the prophets and apostles.’

    Today however, thanks to millions of 'lovers of truth' Cardinal Bellarmine is now labeled as a fundamentalist troublemaker. And if you do not believe me read Gaudium et Spes No. 36.

     







    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: The Dimonds, the Devil, and the Willfully Duped
    « Reply #21 on: July 18, 2017, 04:18:22 PM »
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  • You have taken the insanity to a whole different level.  I thought Francis had reached the pinnacle.  You now claim a valid pope can allow anything under the sun in an official docuмent and it is okay so long as he doesn't bind it on anyone.  This is pure genius.  Absolutely incredible.  So Francis has to insist that we receive the Eucharist while in an adulterous situation in order for him to be invalid.  This is where we have come.  I guess I shouldn't be surprised.  Who knows maybe Francis will insist on this and then those not in an adulterous situation will no longer be able to receive the Eucharist.  I don't put anything past him.  Even if he did, people would still insist he is pope.  
    Here's your problem, you think popes are incapable, or not permitted, or in some way divinely prevented from doing what this pope actually did. You further think that if the pope does such a thing then it proves he could not be pope because real popes are prevented by the Holy Ghost from doing such things.

    Where did you learn or acquire this novel thinking?

    And again, YOU are the one who *falsely* claims that the V2 leaders made this a binding decree of some sort upon the Church, no one else, YOU did.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: The Dimonds, the Devil, and the Willfully Duped
    « Reply #22 on: July 19, 2017, 05:42:17 AM »
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  • Here's your problem, you think popes are incapable, or not permitted, or in some way divinely prevented from doing what this pope actually did. You further think that if the pope does such a thing then it proves he could not be pope because real popes are prevented by the Holy Ghost from doing such things.

    Where did you learn or acquire this novel thinking?

    And again, YOU are the one who *falsely* claims that the V2 leaders made this a binding decree of some sort upon the Church, no one else, YOU did.
    My problem.  You defend a valid pope allowing adultery as something that is perfectly acceptable and I have the problem.  
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church


    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: The Dimonds, the Devil, and the Willfully Duped
    « Reply #23 on: July 19, 2017, 05:43:53 AM »
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  • Now if anyone wanted a demonstration of a papal decree not only rejected but made a laugh of, here it is above. 'Will I be damned for not knowing which thing spins around which?' If you think that is what the 1616 decree was about then your idea of Catholic history is pretty lacking.

    To support his Catholic reasoning 'Lover of truth' offers an opinion of the sedevacantist Daly, because sedevacantism DEPENDS on them 'demoting' the decree enough to allow the popes from 1741 to believe in heliocentrism and to IGNORE the papal decree of 1616. Well Daly was not aware that the records of the 1820 Holy Office stated very clearly the 1616 was an irreversible papal decree. Now you can quote as many opinions as you like, but for me there is only one that set the law, Pope Paul V's followed by Pope Urban VIII's clarification of its infallibility. The day I let Einstein decide the authority of a papal decree like yourself, pigs will fly.

    As for the wise cracks, well they are also an insult to the theological wisdom of St Robert Bellarmine, the Cardinal who presided over the dogma that instructs us what the Scriptures say is true and of faith:

    Second. I say that, as you know, the Council of Trent prohibits expounding the Scriptures contrary to the common agreement of the holy Fathers. And if Your Reverence would read not only the Fathers but also the commentaries of modern writers on Genesis, Psalms, Ecclesiastes and Josue, you would find that all agree in explaining literally (ad litteram) that the sun is in the heavens and moves swiftly around the earth, and that the earth is far from the heavens and stands immobile in the centre of the universe. Now consider whether in all prudence the Church could encourage giving to Scripture a sense contrary to the holy Fathers and all the Latin and Greek commentators. Nor may it be answered that this is not a matter of faith, for if it is not a matter of faith from the point of view of the subject matter (ex parte objecti), it is a matter of faith on the part of the ones who have spoken (ex parte dicentis). It would be just as heretical to deny that Abraham had two sons and Jacob twelve, as it would be to deny the virgin birth of Christ, for both are declared by the Holy Ghost through the prophets and apostles.’

    Today however, thanks to millions of 'lovers of truth' Cardinal Bellarmine is now labeled as a fundamentalist troublemaker. And if you do not believe me read Gaudium et Spes No. 36.

     
    Not sure about what the sun does proves that the magisterium can officially lead us to hell.
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: The Dimonds, the Devil, and the Willfully Duped
    « Reply #24 on: July 19, 2017, 08:50:19 AM »
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  • My problem.  You defend a valid pope allowing adultery as something that is perfectly acceptable and I have the problem.  
    Yes, you have the problem - well, the pope also has a problem, but your problem is that you think that the pope is divinely prevented from doing such things and I want to know where you learned this particular error from.
     
    And no, I do not defend any one, certainly I do not defend the pope for wanting, or even considering to allow adulterers to receive communion - where do you come up with this false accusation against me?


    In a short span of only a few posts;

    1) You refuse to answer direct questions with direct answers, presumably because to do so would expose your falsehoods.
    2) You refuse to admit your false claims are either a mistake or a lie.
    3) You have falsely accused me a few times at least of defending the pope(s') heresies.
    4) You have falsely accused the pope of promulgating a sacrilegious, binding legislation.
    5) You have falsely accused the V2 leaders of binding the Church to committing the sacrilege of receiving communion for adulterers.
    6) You have falsely claimed the pope is not the pope.

    And that's only the few errors (or lies if that be the case) that I can immediately recall at the moment - If I actually took the time to dissect your posts, it's guaranteed that you've made at least a dozen or more false accusations, false claims, falsehoods and errors in only those few posts in this thread alone. Now multiply that times all your spam posts and it all adds up to an astronomical number of errors, false accusations, false claims and falsehoods you habitually and continually post.

    THAT'S why I use LOE as your moniker. So please do not think that I use that moniker out of disrespect or lack of charity towards you, I use it because it is the truth, and if you love the truth as you claim, then what is there to dispute about this? Rather, let this be your wake up call.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: The Dimonds, the Devil, and the Willfully Duped
    « Reply #25 on: July 19, 2017, 09:39:58 AM »
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  • LIAR. Prove that the Dimond Brothers take quotes out of context.


    LIAR. This is the exact opposite of the problem. Many people who believe the obvious understanding of EENS see it distorted by sedevacantists such as yourself, and are "put off" of SV because of it. They see that the Dogma is so clear but then see you destroying the Dogma. They think, well if they can't get this simple Dogma correct, they must not have the issue of SV correct. Your problem lies in the fact that you attribute infallibility to more than it concerns. Theologians, Saints, Catechisms etc... are not infallible and when they contradict Dogma, Dogma wins.


    LIAR. This is a perfect example. How can those who believe in EENS take you seriously when they see you state the Dogma "outside of which there is no salvation" and know that you don't really believe in it? You constantly deny it under the guise of phrases such as "as the Church understands it" which implies that you have a deeper understanding than which is clearly stated.
    http://www.dailycatholic.org/issue/08Jul/jul7str.htm
    See the above posted in the proper forum.  Do you ever proof text?
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church


    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: The Dimonds, the Devil, and the Willfully Duped
    « Reply #26 on: July 19, 2017, 01:50:36 PM »
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  • Another envious dust mite trying to get the Dimond's attention.

    Nobody reads the never ending spam that you post here, meanwhile the Dimond's website has more viewers than all the other trad sights put together.



    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: The Dimonds, the Devil, and the Willfully Duped
    « Reply #27 on: July 19, 2017, 01:54:16 PM »
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  • Another envious dust mite trying to get the Dimond's attention.

    Nobody reads the never ending spam that you post here, meanwhile the Dimond's website has more viewers than all the other trad sights put together.


    Where do these people come from?  Trying to get their attention?  You don't read but comment.  Are you one of those bugs?  Pray you can accept the reality in regards to the error they promote before it is too late.
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline graceseeker

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    Re: The Dimonds, the Devil, and the Willfully Duped
    « Reply #28 on: July 19, 2017, 02:07:36 PM »
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  • QUOTE
    Oh sorry, I meant to address this to OP, not you... 

    I may read this post entirely some day but just to state my perceptions: It seems you have no faith in a human being being able to discern what is really true. With the Church in the world, even despite all its problems, people will find the truth. You come across (or the author of this comes across) as if someone is going to go to Hell if he doesn't get absolutely every teaching of the Church "right," and so his soul is in grave jeopardy if he, say, listens to the wrong (heretical) person!

    what an insult to the notion that we are created in God's image!
    what an insult to the notion that it is not ignorance that leads to Hell but willful ignorance, choosing to be ignorant of Christ b/c you.. um.. "have better things to do" or whatever

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: The Dimonds, the Devil, and the Willfully Duped
    « Reply #29 on: July 19, 2017, 02:10:05 PM »
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  • Oh sorry, I meant to address this to OP, not you...

    I may read this post entirely some day but just to state my perceptions: It seems you have no faith in a human being being able to discern what is really true. With the Church in the world, even despite all its problems, people will find the truth. You come across (or the author of this comes across) as if someone is going to go to Hell if he doesn't get absolutely every teaching of the Church "right," and so his soul is in grave jeopardy if he, say, listens to the wrong (heretical) person!

    what an insult to the notion that we are created in God's image!
    what an insult to the notion that it is not ignorance that leads to Hell but willful ignorance, choosing to be ignorant of Christ b/c you.. um.. "have better things to do" or whatever
    Emotional rants serve some purpose though I am not sure what.  Perhaps for purging purposes on those they are inflicted on.
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church