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Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: steelcross on February 05, 2015, 09:11:26 AM

Title: the diamond bros
Post by: steelcross on February 05, 2015, 09:11:26 AM
I heard and seen some of brother Michael diamond's videos and written material. Some of the things he says are interesting. However, does anyone know if he is a real brother, and if so what order does he belong to? God love you. †
Title: the diamond bros
Post by: TKGS on February 05, 2015, 10:54:49 AM
Some of what the Dimond Brothers publish is very good.  Some of what the Dimond Brothers publish is rubbish.  This is why the Dimond Brothers cannot be trusted.  Like EWTN, they mix the good with the bad and pronounce it all Catholic.  One has to know his faith very well to listen to them, otherwise one is likely to fall into the pit.  They are very vocal and claim an air of theological competence that is simply not present.

Are they "real" brothers?  They claim to be Benedictine (I think) monks and have a monastery (which is their house).  I have never heard of authority under which they have established their monastery or taken vows, though their claims to this cannot be discounted due to the crisis in the Church.  

I would not use them as an authority.
Title: the diamond bros
Post by: Matto on February 05, 2015, 12:14:45 PM
The Dimond brothers were my introduction to traditional Catholicism so I owe them a great debt of gratitude. I may have found out about traditional Catholicism without them but I don't know if I would have. I do not agree with them about everything but I think they are good at pointing out the errors of Vatican II and the recent popes.

Just yesterday I read their book on Padre Pio again which is not bad. My former SSPX priest liked their book about Padre Pio so much that he got many copies of it and gave it out to us at Mass, even though he opposes the Dimond Brothers on many issues.
Title: the diamond bros
Post by: Ladislaus on February 05, 2015, 01:07:09 PM
Yes, the Dimond brothers are a mixed bag.

Some of the work they do is tremendous.  Their biography of Padre Pio has to be one of the best I've ever read.  They wrote this pamphlet "How the Bible Proves the Teachings of the Catholic Church" that's a masterpiece of apologetics.  Their stuff on UFOs was tremendous.  They have done absolutely terrifc work showing the problems with evolution ... from a scientific standpoint.  Their video on "Hell" is very motivational.  And they practically give their materials away (most of it is available free online, while the rest they must be taking a loss on).  I consider them to be right on a number of issues, e.g. NFP and MOST of their thinking on EENS.

Where they crossed the line, however, is in having gone dogmatic both with regard to BoD and with regard to Sedevacantism.  To call even CLASSIC BOD such as held by St. Thomas Aquinas "heretical" and to label non-sedevacantists as non-Catholics crosses a very dangerous and very serious line ... into a schismatic mentality.  Sometimes they fail to make the appropriate distinctions and make everything a dogmatic black-and-white.  It's this dogmatic stuff (which they have more in common with the dogmatic SVs than the classical Feeneyites, most of whom are R&R or in communion with Rome) that has caused them to go off the rails.
Title: the diamond bros
Post by: Ladislaus on February 05, 2015, 01:11:32 PM
Quote from: TKGS
Are they "real" brothers?  They claim to be Benedictine (I think) monks and have a monastery (which is their house).  I have never heard of authority under which they have established their monastery or taken vows, though their claims to this cannot be discounted due to the crisis in the Church.


No, they're not brothers in the strict canonical sense, but then a LOT of Traditional Religious groups lack the same canonical approval.  So that's neither here nor there.  People who despise their positions tend to use that as an ad hominem.  If they live according to the rule of St. Benedict, they're at least informal Benedictines; there was some link to a former Benedictine but it wasn't very strong.  Yet that part is neither here nor there.  Anyone can decide to live like a Benedictine.
Title: the diamond bros
Post by: steelcross on February 05, 2015, 04:47:52 PM
Thanks to all who commented, and all with very well explanations. I once called them to place an order, and whomever I spoke with, seemed rude. I seen one of their videos on YouTube that explained purgatory in scripture, pretty good there. And it seems I am not the only one who sees this. Its good to know there are Catholics out there such as everyone here on this site, that see and call things as theyare. Again, thank you my bbrothers and sisters in Christ. God love you. †
Title: the diamond bros
Post by: Croixalist on February 05, 2015, 10:02:26 PM
Ah yes. Frederick "Michael" and Robert "Peter". The same "Home Aloners" who regularly attend a VII Rome-aligned Eastern Rite church in plain clothes. They also claimed that JPII was the Antichrist and Benedict was the False Prophet... then Bergoglio happened. lol.

I've seen commercials for their website about a year ago on late night CNN (it's always on where I work). They've been sued by a naive man who joined their "monastery" thinking they were true Benedictines and gave them his life savings... only to find out who they really were and left without being able to get his money back. Their videos don't require a lot of overhead, where does all the money go?

TV commercials?

Fred's narrative style oozes with the malice and arrogance of an obnoxious high school debate team member. Seeing the sheer amount of trads who mirror their beliefs now, I just can't justify straining out all their garbage to get a kernel of truth.

Avoid them like the plague!
Title: the diamond bros
Post by: Matto on February 05, 2015, 10:17:48 PM
If I ever manage to save my soul, I will have the dimond brothers to thank for it as much as anyone else because they enlightened me in this world of shame. Even though I now disagree with them about some things I will always be grateful to them for starting me on the road to (hopefully) salvation.
Title: the diamond bros
Post by: TheKnightVigilant on February 05, 2015, 10:52:59 PM
I credit the Dimond Brothers (along with Bishop Williamson) for bringing me to the Catholic faith. Without their influence I'd probably still be either an atheist or some kind of Calvinist. When I was in the initial stages of my conversion to Christianity, I was mainly exposed to Calvinist videos and writings, partly because they have a much larger internet presence than traditional Catholics and are regrettably much more involved in evangelizing. But it was, somewhat ironically, through the conduit of anti-Catholic Calvinism that I found the Catholic Church. I was researching some kind of anti-Catholic conspiracy theories when I stumbled upon the Dimond Brothers material. The things they were saying about Christianity and about history just made so much more sense than any of the Prottie claptrap I'd been reading up to that point. Unlike most trad Catholics, they make themselves heard. They have a forceful style which compels you to listen. They proselytize.

I don't agree with all of their positions now. Hell, I'm not even sure if I'd call myself a sedevacantist at this point. But I still think they do some great things. Peter Dimond's debate with the rabid Calvinist Keith Thompson is simply the best refutation of Protestantism I've ever heard. He literally obliterates their religion.
Title: the diamond bros
Post by: JezusDeKoning on February 06, 2015, 07:12:03 AM
The Dimonds do some things right but their very "us-vs.-them" attitude can be kind of jarring. If they weren't both Feeneyite and dogmatic sedevacantist, they'd be brilliant.
Title: the diamond bros
Post by: Ladislaus on February 06, 2015, 07:42:04 AM
Quote from: JezusDeKoning
The Dimonds do some things right but their very "us-vs.-them" attitude can be kind of jarring. If they weren't both Feeneyite and dogmatic sedevacantist, they'd be brilliant.


No, if they weren't DOGMATIC "Feeneyite" and dogmatic sedevacantist, they'd be brilliant.  They do struggle with their syllogisms and their logic (an inability to make appropriate distinctions when warranted) and their grasp of Latin, due to lack of formal theological training, but they make a great contribution in a lot of ways.
Title: the diamond bros
Post by: Croixalist on February 06, 2015, 09:18:31 AM
Quote from: Bellator Dei
Quote from: Croixalist
they've been sued by a naive man who joined their "monastery" thinking they were true Benedictines and gave them his life savings... only to find out who they really were and left without being able to get his money


Quote
They won that lawsuit, by the way.
 

That's not the point.

Of course, if they want to say they're Benedictine, there's very little recourse to secular law. They can't be punished by the Church because they're already operating outside of it.  Like I said, the man was naive. Once he left their monastery his money stayed in their pockets. Was it moral for them to do so after it's obvious he wasn't aware of their history? I'd say no.

They're swindlers on top of being frauds, false prophets, and raving home-aloner hypocrites.

Quote
I know that a lot of the information that they provide is hard to take in sometimes, but blanket statements like these are just ridiculous.  They have a wealth of information that they've made available for people to look into, for free.


It wasn't a blanket statement, it was a piece of advice coming from someone who doesn't believe a good portion of what they teach is true.

Quote
If you know that they're wrong about something, prove it.  Challenge them to a debate and prove that they're wrong.


That won't be necessary. If JPII was the "Final AntiChrist" and Benedict was his "False Prophet", then what pray tell, is Bergoglio? Just another VII antipope? An evil "Peter the Roman"! You tell me. I'm not wading through one more of their screeds. Any version of the Final Antichrist that does not naturally conclude with the return of Christ Himself doesn't fit in with anything I've ever read on the subject. It also doesn't help that JPII died as an old man from natural causes after a very long decline.

Quote
It really makes me laugh sometimes that individuals like Siscoe, Sungenis, Ferrara, Salza, et al, claim to be these modern day lay theologians - but NONE of them will debate the Dimonds....why is that?


I remember Salza saying that they were ducking him. I guess we'll just have to trust in their angelic personalities and hope they'd never mislead their throng of dedicated YT subscribers and paypal donators!
Title: the diamond bros
Post by: TKGS on February 06, 2015, 10:38:49 AM
Quote from: Ladislaus
Quote from: JezusDeKoning
The Dimonds do some things right but their very "us-vs.-them" attitude can be kind of jarring. If they weren't both Feeneyite and dogmatic sedevacantist, they'd be brilliant.


No, if they weren't DOGMATIC "Feeneyite" and dogmatic sedevacantist, they'd be brilliant.  They do struggle with their syllogisms and their logic (an inability to make appropriate distinctions when warranted) and their grasp of Latin, due to lack of formal theological training, but they make a great contribution in a lot of ways.


This is probably the best characterization of the Dimond Brothers so far.  Good analysis, Ladislaus.

I've read the final court decision on the lawsuit--the Dimond Brothers posted it to the internet.  Not sure if it's still available.  The court found that the Dimond Brothers fully disclosed to the postulate their status, their doctrine, etc., etc., etc.  They did not hide anything from the individual nor did they make untrue claims about themselves.  They did not require the individual to give them anything other than a customary dowry but the man determined to donate a great deal of money which he wanted back.  It is this great deal of money, I think, that has enabled them to provide many of their materials at or below the cost of production.

I really do wish they would eliminate their dogmatism on Feeneyism and sedevacantism as well as brush up on logic.  They could be a great resource.  While they do open doors to tradition, I think they slam even more doors shut.
Title: the diamond bros
Post by: Malleus on February 06, 2015, 12:11:24 PM
Quote from: Croixalist
They also claimed that JPII was the Antichrist and Benedict was the False Prophet... then Bergoglio happened. lol.


Make that claim.

They still say he is the antichrist!
Title: the diamond bros
Post by: Croixalist on February 06, 2015, 01:26:10 PM
Quote from: Malleus
Quote from: Croixalist
They also claimed that JPII was the Antichrist and Benedict was the False Prophet... then Bergoglio happened. lol.


Make that claim.

They still say he is the antichrist!


Hah, well okay then! The Final Antichrist has been dead of natural causes for 10 years and Christ hasn't come back. Does that sound right to you?

Quote from: Bellator Dei

Of course, you are entitled to your opinion.  I was merely pointing out that just because there was a lawsuit, it doesn't necessarily qualify as reason to discredit them.


The lawsuit wasn't my only reason to discredit them. It's there to give you an idea of who they like to recruit and how they conduct their affairs. They do have a proven ability to separate fools from their money.

Quote
Right....   But when confronted about providing proof, you answer like most who cannot provide an adequate answer, such as:
 
Quote from: Croixalist
That won't be necessary.


That was the introductory sentence to a paragraph where I did provide an argument. You neglected to address those points... unless you thought I needed to post it on their website first or something.

Quote from: Croixalist
I remember Salza saying that they were ducking him.


That was in response to why there aren't any debates with these people. There's other reasons outside of being too scared. Though they do enjoy a certain amount of notoriety, they aren't authoritative on anything. Their habit of declaring all Catholics who don't agree with them as heretics couldn't help matters. They also could be using unreasonable demands to mask an unwillingness to debate. If you go by William Albrecht, he said they insisted on exclusive rights to the debate on YT. Now, I don't agree with William on all things, but he did provide screenshots of the conversation. Who knows, their rep might have been shot on that alone.

Quote
Doubtful, but certainly within the realm of possibilities.  The point, however, is that if you're going to accuse them of being frauds, debate them in a public setting and prove it.  Saying that they're frauds on an internet forum doesn't do your accusation any justice.

I'm not trying to hold you to anything here on the forum, but if you believe they are truly frauds, then expose them in a debate setting so we can all have proof.


There's plenty of proof to be had in the way of unsubstantiated claims. "Most" Holy Family Monastery is a spinoff of a spinoff who neglected to actually become a monk. If they have a stronger tie than Joseph Natale, I haven't heard of it. They're self-declared Benedictine monks until someone can prove otherwise.

Their Feeneyism is another proof that they are in error, but I think I know the audience I'm speaking to. If Feeney couldn't be bothered with Pius XII, why should I bother with his spiritual successors?

I'll debate anyone on this forum and if the Dimonds want to sign up and go to town, they're welcome to. Until then, I'm going to continue to follow my own advice on the subject. However, if you disagree with what I'm saying, feel free to provide your own reasons instead of inventing an imaginary arbiter of internet argumentation.

Ultimately, I would put as much distance as possible between myself and any home-aloner who goes out of their way to declare virtually all Catholics, trad or not, as heretics.

That's just me though!
Title: the diamond bros
Post by: Malleus on February 06, 2015, 01:49:11 PM
Quote from: Croixalist
Hah, well okay then! The Final Antichrist has been dead of natural causes for 10 years and Christ hasn't come back. Does that sound right to you?


Of course not! These guys are crazy.

I suppose it's beyond them to say "Hey, we were wrong about this, so we're sorry and we take it back okay?"
Title: the diamond bros
Post by: roscoe on February 06, 2015, 05:00:48 PM
I got news for croixalist--- any paperwork claiming that Fr Feeney was either called to Rome or ex-communicated for not complying is a fraud.  :thinking:
Title: the diamond bros
Post by: Croixalist on February 07, 2015, 05:51:29 AM
Quote from: Bellator Dei
Quote from: Croixalist
I'll debate anyone on this forum
 

I look forward to seeing you on the threads...

Quote from: Croixalist
I'm going to continue to follow my own advice


Look Mate, I'm no apologetic for the Dimonds, but accusations demand proof.  

Of course, follow your own advice, it matters not to me.  I'm not here to convince you of following the Dimonds....



The difference here is that my proof isn't good enough for you. That's fine, I'm not an authority. The only thing that will truly settle this for good, is for a Holy Pope to start making pronouncements against this sort of thing. We're in the wild west right now and everyone has a revolver and we all shoot from the hip. Our ammo is as soft as clay (or a virtual down-thumb) so no one falls down.

The real danger is thinking we're safe and secure against the myriads of deceptions that can arise in our traditional movement. There aren't many people who can handle snakes without being bitten. The same goes for trad Catholics and self-styled breakaway leaders. I'm not saying you can't discern truth from fiction, but you ought to be humble and wary going into it or you're likely to get tripped up somewhere.

With the Dimonds, we've already seen the fruit of failed prophecy. They are known only for their what they fight against, not for their charity, not for their spiritual life, not for what they pray for.  For what they are, the lack of formal training, the lack of bonifides, and the lack of ecclesiastical office, they do far more damage than they could ever fix themselves. Anyone who does credit them with "conversion" is going to have quite a task removing all the parasites from their thought process.

Someone with more training could delve deeper through those murky waters. If you think you got what it takes, great, but it seems like you have fallen into their cult following. Ladislaus sounds like he's got stable footing here, though I am much less apt to give them any slack because I know my limitations.

So my bullet is a warning shot. If it stings, you might consider moving your position. Hopefully, it went over your head.

Quote from: Malleus
Of course not! These guys are crazy.


Someone I can agree with!  :cheers:

And roscoe, is there something I missed in Acta Apostolicae Sedis?

Quote
"Since Father Leonard Feeney remained in Boston (St. Benedict Center) and since he has been suspended from performing his priestly duties for a long time because of his grave disobedience to the Authority of the Church, in no way moved by repeated warnings and threats of incurring excommunication ipso facto, and has still failed to submit, the most Eminent and Reverend Fathers, charged with the responsibility of safeguarding faith and morals, during a plenary session held on February 4, 1953, have declared him excommunicated with all the effects that this has in law.
"On Thursday, February 12, 1953, Our Most Holy Father Pius XII, Pope by Divine Providence, has approved and confirmed the decree of these Most Eminent Fathers, and ordered that this be made a matter of public record.
"Given in Rome in the general quarters of the Holy Office, February 13, 1953. Marius Crovini, notary."


Or do you believe Feeney had the authority to place conditions on his appearance in Rome? You think Crovini made it up on his own?
Title: the diamond bros
Post by: TKGS on February 07, 2015, 07:34:43 AM
Quote from: Malleus
I suppose it's beyond them to say "Hey, we were wrong about this, so we're sorry and we take it back okay?"


The day this happens is the day I will take a fresh look at them.  Based on their history, I don't foresee this every happening.
Title: the diamond bros
Post by: Centroamerica on February 07, 2015, 08:51:30 AM
Quote from: Bellator Dei
Quote from: TKGS
Are they "real" brothers?


From what I understand, they took their vows before a validly ordained Priest.


Hardly!

Quote from:  Wikipedia source


History

Schism House was founded in 1967, in Berlin, New Jersey, by a self-proclaimed Benedictine monk named Joseph Natale (1933-1995), originally as a community for handicapped men. Natale entered the Benedictine Archabbey in Latrobe, Pennsylvania, in 1960 as a lay postulant, but left less than a year later to start his own Holy Family Monastery. According to an archivist of the Saint Vincent Archabbey in Latrobe, Natale left before taking vows; he never actually became a Benedictine monk.[4]

Throughout the late 1960s and early 1970s, Natale denounced the Second Vatican Council and the New Mass, and by the mid-1970s the community had separated from the Vatican. By mid-1980s, there were ten monks in it, but by 1994 the number declined to three. Shortly after a conference in 1994, John Vennari left to work for Fr. Nicholas Gruner.

Natale died in 1995, whereupon Michael Dimond (born Frederick Dimond[5]), who joined in 1992 at the age of 19 after converting to Catholism four years earlier,[6] was elected the Superior. Soon after, he relocated to Granger, New York (close to Fillmore, New York), where Natale owned more than 90 acres (36 ha) of donated land.[7]

Dimond supported Gerry Matatics when he held similar beliefs.[8]

Michael and Peter Dimond's position condemning the Vatican's promotion of Natural Family Planning (a Fertility awareness method for married couples to regulate conception, pregnancy, and birth) was noted in the 2010 book Twentieth-Century Global Christianity by Fortress Press, as "an admittedly rare example of contemporary opposition".[9]

Schism House airs advertisements on shortwave radio broadcasts of The Alex Jones Show.

Beginning in late 2012, an audio recording of Peter Dimond responding to an individual struggling with sex addiction set to the image of a macaque became a fad on the site YTMND under the name "impurity". A number of similar "impurity" sites have since been created, incorporating clips from the original recording along with recordings of Alex Jones and other content relating to traditionalist Catholicism, sɛҳuąƖ promiscuity, and the 9/11 truth movement.

Sacraments

As none of their members were ordained into the priesthood, and as they believe that the New Mass is invalid and that the Tridentine Mass (promoted by Benedict XVI) is compromised by the 1962 Missal changes made by John XXIII, they receive the sacraments from a Byzantine rite Catholic Church that is in communion with the Vatican, in Rochester, New York. During these occasions they wear layman's clothes in lieu of their Benedictine habits. Peter Dimond wrote: "In receiving the sacraments from certain Byzantine priests for over the last decade – i.e. from priests who are not notorious or imposing about their heresies – I've received what I consider to be tremendous spiritual graces."[10][11]



http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_Holy_Family_Monastery

I find that there are some very interesting facts on the Wikipedia. Most Of these details raise a serious eye of suspicion. For instance, four years after converting from atheist parents to traditional Catholicism at the mere age of 19 Michael Dimond was elected superior of the "Benedictine" monastery. They also seem to support the pro-Zionist Jєω lover Alex Jones. I mean, maybe some of the details are only coincidence, but they lead me to believe that these highly divisive individuals are actually plants to disrupt the Traditionalist movement. But then when you watch some of their videos, for instance a recent one proving the Papacy, this is hard to believe. As someone else said, they are certainly a mixed bag.
Title: the diamond bros
Post by: Centroamerica on February 07, 2015, 08:54:29 AM


Schism House!

Hats off to the moderator on that one! :applause:
Title: the diamond bros
Post by: Croixalist on February 07, 2015, 09:38:15 AM
Quote from: Centroamerica


Schism House!

Hats off to the moderator on that one! :applause:


:roll-laugh2: :roll-laugh2: :roll-laugh2:

Sneaky!
Title: the diamond bros
Post by: roscoe on February 07, 2015, 05:22:00 PM
Quote from: roscoe
I got news for croixalist--- any paperwork claiming that Fr Feeney was either called to Rome or ex-communicated for not complying is a fraud.  :thinking:


 :fryingpan:
Title: the diamond bros
Post by: Croixalist on February 08, 2015, 07:05:36 AM
I don't count frying-pan gif as a valid source of information.

Title: the diamond bros
Post by: Ladislaus on February 08, 2015, 07:10:54 AM
Quote from: Croixalist
I don't count frying-pan gif as a valid source of information.



It's about as good as anything which comes from the Cushingites.
Title: the diamond bros
Post by: Croixalist on February 08, 2015, 12:56:57 PM
Well if I could justify his argument without saving it, I'd take Feeney seriously. Cushing was right for the wrong reasons in regards to disciplining Feeney, who was wrong for the right reasons... though Cushing was wrong for the wrong reasons on his own personal take, which became mainstream during VII anyway. Nostra Aetate will get it's turn to be shot down too (along with the rest of VII) once the ship rights itself.

I don't think you automatically have to be in Cushing's corner in order to object to Feeneyism, if that was what you were implying. Feeney had the right instinct to fight against what would later emerge as a rejection of EENS, he just painted himself into a corner during the attempt and refused to start over. It's that sort of pride that the Dimonds have fallen prey to.
Title: the diamond bros
Post by: roscoe on February 08, 2015, 01:14:32 PM
There is no such thing as 'Feeneyism'....  :pop:
Title: the diamond bros
Post by: Croixalist on February 12, 2015, 09:14:23 AM
Whatever they're calling the rejection of Baptism of Desire/Blood and the separation of justification and salvation nowadays. You wanna lend your name?
Title: the diamond bros
Post by: TheKnightVigilant on February 12, 2015, 09:30:20 AM
Quote from: Centroamerica


I find that there are some very interesting facts on the Wikipedia. Most Of these details raise a serious eye of suspicion. For instance, four years after converting from atheist parents to traditional Catholicism at the mere age of 19 Michael Dimond was elected superior of the "Benedictine" monastery. They also seem to support the pro-Zionist Jєω lover Alex Jones. I mean, maybe some of the details are only coincidence, but they lead me to believe that these highly divisive individuals are actually plants to disrupt the Traditionalist movement. But then when you watch some of their videos, for instance a recent one proving the Papacy, this is hard to believe. As someone else said, they are certainly a mixed bag.


They don't support Alex Jones. Please stop talking out of your backside with retarded conspiracy theories. They actually did an entire video on how Alex Jones is dangerous and untrustworthy.
Title: the diamond bros
Post by: Arborman on February 18, 2015, 03:35:07 PM
I found the Dimond brothers off an ad on the Alex Jones channel.  I like them as a source of information and even made them my start up page.   I wrote to them and they responded to my questions and they were helpful.  That being said I don't agree with everything they say and attend an SSPX chapel.  I also subscribe to the Remnant and other traditional Catholics on the internet.      The above poster is right, they did do a video on Alex Jones.
Title: the diamond bros
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on February 18, 2015, 04:51:42 PM
Quote from: Croixalist
Ah yes. Frederick "Michael" and Robert "Peter". The same "Home Aloners" who regularly attend a VII Rome-aligned Eastern Rite church in plain clothes. They also claimed that JPII was the Antichrist and Benedict was the False Prophet... then Bergoglio happened. lol.

I've seen commercials for their website about a year ago on late night CNN (it's always on where I work). They've been sued by a naive man who joined their "monastery" thinking they were true Benedictines and gave them his life savings... only to find out who they really were and left without being able to get his money back. Their videos don't require a lot of overhead, where does all the money go?

TV commercials?

Fred's narrative style oozes with the malice and arrogance of an obnoxious high school debate team member. Seeing the sheer amount of trads who mirror their beliefs now, I just can't justify straining out all their garbage to get a kernel of truth.

Avoid them like the plague!
Title: the diamond bros
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on February 18, 2015, 05:15:39 PM
 :incense:
Title: the diamond bros
Post by: andysloan on February 19, 2015, 05:42:07 AM
Dimond Brothers -

Matthew 23:15

"Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you go round about the sea and the land to make one proselyte; and when he is made, you make him the child of hell twofold more than yourselves."
Title: the diamond bros
Post by: andysloan on February 19, 2015, 06:11:17 AM
As to their works;

"if the philosophers made any true statements, we must claim them for our own use, as from unjust possessors."

St Augustine
(De Doctr. Christ. ii, 40)
Title: Re: the diamond bros
Post by: LionheartCrusader on September 10, 2017, 08:14:35 PM
 Are they right that SSPX believe Mulims, Jєωs, and people that never heard the gospel are saved by their pagan religions and follow Christ ''as they know true?'' 
 I've hear them claim this. 
Title: Re: the diamond bros
Post by: RoughAshlar on September 10, 2017, 11:07:25 PM
What the Archbishop taught and believed is different than what you will here now from the various priests in the SSPX.  This claim come from on of his books:

Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, Against the Heresies, p. 216: "Evidently, certain distinctions must be made. Souls can be saved in a religion other than the Catholic religion (Protestantism, Islam, Buddhism, etc.), but not by this religion. There may be souls who, not knowing Our Lord, have by the grace of the good Lord, good interior dispositions, who submit to God... But some of these persons make an act of love which implicitly is equivalent to baptism of desire. It is uniquely by this means that they are able to be saved."
Title: Re: the diamond bros
Post by: DZ PLEASE on September 11, 2017, 12:06:18 AM
Are they right that SSPX believe Mulims, Jєωs, and people that never heard the gospel are saved by their pagan religions and follow Christ ''as they know true?''
 I've hear them claim this.

Why don't you go straight to the respective sources, instead of getting things second, third, fourth etc. etc. hand?
Title: Re: the diamond bros
Post by: DZ PLEASE on September 11, 2017, 12:10:51 AM
What the Archbishop taught and believed is different than what you will here now from the various priests in the SSPX.  This claim come from on of his books:

Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, Against the Heresies, p. 216: "Evidently, certain distinctions must be made. Souls can be saved in a religion other than the Catholic religion (Protestantism, Islam, Buddhism, etc.), but not by this religion. There may be souls who, not knowing Our Lord, have by the grace of the good Lord, good interior dispositions, who submit to God... But some of these persons make an act of love which implicitly is equivalent to baptism of desire. It is uniquely by this means that they are able to be saved."

It's not EVEN BoD, but the EQUIVALENT OF

"...implicitly is equivalent to..."

What's next, implicit implicit desire?

OH MY!

LOL