Author Topic: The Crisis in the Church is a supernatural mystery  (Read 1981 times)

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Offline XavierSem

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Re: The Crisis in the Church is a supernatural mystery
« Reply #60 on: September 16, 2019, 06:12:21 AM »
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  • Are you serious?  There are 1.1 billion people in the world who call themselves Catholic.  How many of them do you think are traditional?  Let’s forget about the laity because it’s easier to track the clergy.  How many priests are traditional?  How many are SSPX?  How many are sedes?  And how many are Resistance?  Does anyone know?  I’m certain that there are more sede priests than Resistance priests in North America.  So how can you be throwing out statistics?  You more than anyone should be loathe to start looking at statistics.  And I’m pretty sure I have seen you downplay statistics in the past but now all of a sudden you think statistics prove your position is correct?
    If you think that we should include laity in this, just remember that a significant number of sedes go to SSPX and resistance chapels so I don’t think it helps your cause.
    I think you misunderstood Matthew's point. Matthew was saying in that portion that, IF sedes are correct, certainly R&R are of good will. That has been his experience. 
    Now, about the statistics. There are 1.313 billion Catholics in the world, out of 7.4 billion people, per latest Vatican official statistics: "Out of a world population of 7,408 million, 1,313 million or 17.7% are baptized Catholic" https://press.vatican.va/content/salastampa/en/bollettino/pubblico/2019/03/06/190306b.html
    How many Priests in the world? Some 415,000 "Between 1970 and 2017, the number of priests declined from 419,728 to 414,582 in 2017.[2][3]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priest_shortage_in_the_Catholic_Church
    How many Traditional Priests? Around 10,000, or 2.5%. 
    SSPX: 971 (637 priests) members. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_of_Saint_Pius_X 
    FSSP: 418 members (304 priests) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priestly_Fraternity_of_Saint_Peter
    ICRSS: 193 members (100 priests) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_of_Christ_the_King_Sovereign_Priest
    This is already over a 1000, and probably will be well over 2000, I daresay, within a decade from now. 
    Interested persons can use similar links to research further. About the SSPV, the CMRI or any such group.
    There are also about 5000 Traditional Diocesan Priests: "At least 3,000 diocesan priests (maybe up to 5,000, if one includes those who are very cautious because of their local bishops) who celebrate it regularly, even if not exclusively, including 1,000 at least in the United States: this is the Summorum Pontificum group, by far the largest."
    https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2019/02/around-5000-priests-currently-celebrate.html
    Finally, as for the Thread OP, yes, the Crisis in the Church is a Supernatural Mystery, but as Rev. Father Jean Michel Gleize, Seminary Professor of Ecclesiology at Econe, says so well, a 61 year sede vacante leads to an absurdity, and therefore can be reasonably excluded.
    "The Angelus: As for the place of the pope in all this, we certainly must admit that there is a mystery here, a mystery of iniquity.
    Fr. Gleize: No doubt, but a mystery is a truth that surpasses reason; that the Church should be habitually deprived of her head is an absurdity and contrary to the promises of indefectibility. One of the reasons the founder of the Society of Saint Pius X could rely on to reject the sedevacantist hypothesis was that “the matter of the visibility of the Church is too essential to its existence for God to be able to do without it for decades; the reasoning of those who assert the non-existence of the pope places the Church in an insoluble situation.”3 Actually, your reasoning is more or less equivalent to sedevacantism. This is nothing new; but it is an old error that was already condemned by the founder of the Society of Saint Pius X. Pardon me if I disappoint you, but I will not run the risk of trying to be wiser than Solomon! The 40 years of Archbishop Lefebvre’s episcopate matter, if not in the sight of men, at least in the sight of God. Archbishop Lefebvre was a great man, a great bishop, because he was a man of the Church.
    The Angelus: Thank you, Father Gleize." http://www.angelusonline.org/index.php?section=articles&subsection=show_article&article_id=3501
    Do make Acts of Consecration to the Twin Hearts, Spiritual Offerings of the Precious Blood of Jesus in Union with the Holy Mass, like in St. Gertrude's Chaplet, along with Spiritual Communions at least every hour. "Pray the Rosary every day to obtain Peace for the world." ~ Our Lady of the Rosary.

     

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