Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

« previous next »
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5

Author Topic: The Crisis in the Church is a supernatural mystery  (Read 6966 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline amor vincit

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
  • Reputation: +7/-6
  • Gender: Male
Preamble to the Coup d'état: The Forced Ouster of Benedict XVI
« Reply #30 on: August 30, 2019, 11:43:23 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • I just can't believe that people don't see that Jorge Bergoglio is an anti-Pope. The guy does not even believe in the Catholic faith. In fact, he despises the Catholic faith. He says God is not a Catholic God. Now what a ridiculous thing to say and what anti-Catholic bigotry he spouts. He preaches as if he's God. He says the total opposite of what Jesus says. Jesus says go and teach All Nations baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and the Holy Ghost. Bergoglio in his arrogance says proselytizing is solemn nonsense.[1]
    Now I just can't believe the people cannot see that this guy is a Franken fraud. He has no idea what the Catholic faith is and he thinks all roads lead to Heaven. Almost everything Francis teaches is false and I suspect that he's guilty of hundreds of heresies. I think all the Bishops and Cardinals are totally blind. They cannot see this guy is not a Catholic, and probably never has been for a very long time. He's a total Antichrist! It's sad to say, the blindness of the clergy and Catholics, in general, is just mind-boggling. It should be obvious to all that he's not a Catholic. We will all be held accountable for not removing this Francis fraud from the Throne of Peter.
    Benedict is still the Pope. He never fully resigned. One has only to read his resignation letter to know this. He has repeated several times that he has not resigned the Petrine office, only the ministry.
     
     All of these so-called YouTube cyber stars, like Fr. Mark Goring, like Dr. Taylor Marshall and Timothy Gordon, like Michael Voris of Church Militant—they're just trying to protect their own reputation (God help them if they are viewed as conspiracy theorists!) They're afraid to say the truth, afraid to investigate the truth. They have to be held accountable for their cowardice in not telling the truth. There is such a thing as a sin of omission and not speaking out against this obviously fraudulent Pope is a sin of omission. Anyone with a pair of eyes can see that he is a false Pope.

    [1]Trying to Convert Others Is ‘Nonsense’
    December 27, 2018, | José Antonio Ureta https://www.tfp.org/commenting-on-the-assertion-that-trying-to-convert-others-is-nonsense
    Logged

    Offline Meg

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6790
    • Reputation: +3467/-2999
    • Gender: Female
    Re: The Crisis in the Church is a supernatural mystery
    « Reply #31 on: August 30, 2019, 11:53:54 AM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
    • The popes during and since Vatican ll are and have all been Modernists. Francis is just way more upfront about his Modernist views than his predecessors.

    Archbishop Lefebvre believed that the Church is occupied by a Modernist sect, which I agree with. We still have to try to save our souls, despite the terrible situation. You can focus on Francis if you want (or rather his status - if he's Pope or not), but that in itself isn't going to save your soul.
    Logged
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Alexandria

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2677
    • Reputation: +485/-122
    • Gender: Female
    Re: The Crisis in the Church is a supernatural mystery
    « Reply #32 on: August 30, 2019, 12:07:41 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Meg on August 30, 2019, 11:53:54 AM
    The popes during and since Vatican ll are and have all been Modernists. Francis is just way more upfront about his Modernist views than his predecessors.

    Archbishop Lefebvre believed that the Church is occupied by a Modernist sect, which I agree with. We still have to try to save our souls, despite the terrible situation. You can focus on Francis if you want (or rather his status - if he's Pope or not), but that in itself isn't going to save your soul.
    Do you think it would be the cause of a person possibly losing their soul if they happened to be wrong in thinking Francis wasn't the pope?
    Logged

    Offline Stubborn

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 14754
    • Reputation: +6088/-907
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Preamble to the Coup d'état: The Forced Ouster of Benedict XVI
    « Reply #33 on: August 30, 2019, 12:09:46 PM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!1
    • Quote from: amor vincit on August 30, 2019, 11:43:23 AM
    I just can't believe that people don't see that Jorge Bergoglio is an anti-Pope....We will all be held accountable for not removing this Francis fraud from the Throne of Peter.

    Benedict is still the Pope. He never fully resigned. One has only to read his resignation letter to know this. He has repeated several times that he has not resigned the Petrine office, only the ministry.
    Pope Benedict XVI resigned, get over it. He was as much a modernist enemy as Pope Francis.

    Also, there is no removing the pope, he only vacates the Chair by his death or, as is the case with Benedict, he resigns.

    Just think, most of the cardinals think he is too conservative and want a Liberal for the next pope.  

    Don't forget that we are only beginning to see the new religion of V2 being truly understood and implemented, it still has a ways to go - it'll probably take at least a few more popes before it's real understanding is wholly embraced and fully implemented. Count on it getting a lot worse before it gets any better.
    Logged
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Meg

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6790
    • Reputation: +3467/-2999
    • Gender: Female
    Re: The Crisis in the Church is a supernatural mystery
    « Reply #34 on: August 30, 2019, 12:10:26 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Alexandria on August 30, 2019, 12:07:41 PM
    Do you think it would be the cause of a person possibly losing their soul if they happened to be wrong in thinking Francis wasn't the pope?

    I wouldn't think so. Adopting the sede view isn't going to cause anyone to lose their soul, as far as I know. But if that's what they are going to focus on, to the exclusion of more important things, like saving one's soul, then maybe that's a problem. But I'm no expert. It's just my opinion.
    Logged
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Alexandria

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2677
    • Reputation: +485/-122
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Preamble to the Coup d'état: The Forced Ouster of Benedict XVI
    « Reply #35 on: August 30, 2019, 12:19:16 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Stubborn on August 30, 2019, 12:09:46 PM
    Pope Benedict XVI resigned, get over it. He was as much a modernist enemy as Pope Francis.

    Also, there is no removing the pope, he only vacates the Chair by his death or, as is the case with Benedict, he resigns.

    Just think, most of the cardinals think he is too conservative and want a Liberal for the next pope.  

    Don't forget that we are only beginning to see the new religion of V2 being truly understood and implemented, it still has a ways to go - it'll probably take at least a few more popes before it's real understanding is wholly embraced and fully implemented. Count on it getting a lot worse before it gets any better.
    Isn't that what Benedict said?  The problems in the church were on account of the fact that we never had a chance to implement VII because it was hijacked by the "spirit" of VII?
    Either way, it's nonsense.    The best way for VII to work is to burn the docuмents and dump the ashes over the Pacific Ocean.
    Logged

    Offline Stubborn

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 14754
    • Reputation: +6088/-907
    • Gender: Male
    Re: The Crisis in the Church is a supernatural mystery
    « Reply #36 on: August 30, 2019, 01:26:43 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Alexandria on August 30, 2019, 12:07:41 PM
    Do you think it would be the cause of a person possibly losing their soul if they happened to be wrong in thinking Francis wasn't the pope?
    Only God knows for each person, but if the sedes guess wrong, then what they are risking, is being:
    Schismatic(Siz-mat-ik), n. & adj.; Gr., L. One who of his own will departs from the unity of the Church and refuses to acknowledge a valid Roman Pontiff as the supreme head or to accept his Jurisdiction. Adj. Of or pertaining to a schism.
    - Catholic Dictionary

    This is one of the main reasons that I personally have always been against sedeism. Aside from the whole matter being altogether nugatory, it is simply not anywhere even close to being worth the risk, not to me.
    Logged
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Stubborn

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 14754
    • Reputation: +6088/-907
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Preamble to the Coup d'état: The Forced Ouster of Benedict XVI
    « Reply #37 on: August 30, 2019, 01:33:37 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Alexandria on August 30, 2019, 12:19:16 PM
    Isn't that what Benedict said?  The problems in the church were on account of the fact that we never had a chance to implement VII because it was hijacked by the "spirit" of VII?
    Either way, it's nonsense.    The best way for VII to work is to burn the docuмents and dump the ashes over the Pacific Ocean.
    I'm not sure if he said it, it's just the logical conclusion based on observing the way it's progressed since V2. It just keeps getting more and more rotten. I just wonder if they'll elect another imagined conservative aka PBXVI first.
    Logged
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Alexandria

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2677
    • Reputation: +485/-122
    • Gender: Female
    Re: The Crisis in the Church is a supernatural mystery
    « Reply #38 on: August 30, 2019, 01:52:04 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Stubborn on August 30, 2019, 01:26:43 PM
    Only God knows for each person, but if the sedes guess wrong, then what they are risking, is being:
    Schismatic(Siz-mat-ik), n. & adj.; Gr., L. One who of his own will departs from the unity of the Church and refuses to acknowledge a valid Roman Pontiff as the supreme head or to accept his Jurisdiction. Adj. Of or pertaining to a schism.
    - Catholic Dictionary

    This is one of the main reasons that I personally have always been against sedeism. Aside from the whole matter being altogether nugatory, it is simply not anywhere even close to being worth the risk, not to me.
    But isn't that what we all do?  Do you want to be in union with Francis and the VII church?
    Logged

    Offline Mr G

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2401
    • Reputation: +1574/-93
    • Gender: Male
    Re: The Crisis in the Church is a supernatural mystery
    « Reply #39 on: August 30, 2019, 02:23:39 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: MMagdala on August 29, 2019, 01:17:54 PM
    Do you not understand the first thing about Catholic ecclesiastical hierarchy and the role of the laity?  Reputed trads suggesting some kind of lay-initiated activism is beyond ironic.  It is not within the jurisdiction of a single lay person, or priest, or religious, to "do" anything about "the guy in the white cassock."  The titular pope, whoever he is, whether true or untrue, good or bad, holy or disgraceful, is not like the chairman of some board, president of a company, or governmental official, who can be booted from his position by "a plan."

    The best way to "make the guy...stop..." is to pray and do penance.  It's what Our Lady has instructed us to do.

    And if he doesn't stop destroying the Church despite prayer and penance, he, not you, will be judged for that by Our Lord.
    That is why I added " but if not then you are better off taking Matthew's advice "spend more time sanctifying ourselves and our families, and spending time and love on our children, so they will be less likely to stray later." At least that we can have an impact."
    Logged

    Offline forlorn

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2521
    • Reputation: +1041/-1106
    • Gender: Male
    Re: The Crisis in the Church is a supernatural mystery
    « Reply #40 on: August 30, 2019, 03:12:29 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Stubborn on August 30, 2019, 01:26:43 PM
    Schismatic(Siz-mat-ik), n. & adj.; Gr., L. One who of his own will departs from the unity of the Church and refuses to acknowledge a valid Roman Pontiff as the supreme head or to accept his Jurisdiction. Adj. Of or pertaining to a schism.
    - Catholic Dictionary
    Quote
    Far as I'm concerned, the SSPX should have nothing to do with newchurch until newchurch condemns itself and everything it stands for and returns to the faith. But newchurch is not going to do that and no one expects them to do that, at least I don't thinks so, not in my lifetime anyway.

    If it were up to me, I would say that maybe once or twice a year, or maybe once a month - or something, SSPX should send a one-way communication to the pope reminding him of the predicament they (Rome) are in and warn them to return to the faith. Other than that, they should have nothing to do with them.  
    Logged

    Offline Stubborn

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 14754
    • Reputation: +6088/-907
    • Gender: Male
    Re: The Crisis in the Church is a supernatural mystery
    « Reply #41 on: August 31, 2019, 05:31:56 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1
    • Quote from: Stubborn on August 30, 2019, 01:26:43 PM
    Only God knows for each person, but if the sedes guess wrong, then what they are risking, is being:
    Schismatic(Siz-mat-ik), n. & adj.; Gr., L. One who of his own will departs from the unity of the Church and refuses to acknowledge a valid Roman Pontiff as the supreme head or to accept his Jurisdiction. Adj. Of or pertaining to a schism.
    - Catholic Dictionary

    This is one of the main reasons that I personally have always been against sedeism. Aside from the whole matter being altogether nugatory, it is simply not anywhere even close to being worth the risk, not to me.
    Quote from: Alexandria on August 30, 2019, 01:52:04 PM
    But isn't that what we all do?  Do you want to be in union with Francis and the VII church?
    Alexandria no, that is not what we all do.

    We are the faithful Catholics, we are not the ones who've departed from the unity of the Church, they, the NOers did - of their own free will. Nor do we refuse to acknowledge the conciliar popes as valid popes, supreme head with universal jurisdiction. As such, we are not being schismatic.  

    Those who believe that the pope is not the pope, are those who refuse to acknowledge the popes as valid popes. Per the definition of Schismatic, there are only two possible results - they are the ones who either are certainly schismatic, or they risk being schismatic if their guess is wrong.  

     
    Logged
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline forlorn

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2521
    • Reputation: +1041/-1106
    • Gender: Male
    Re: The Crisis in the Church is a supernatural mystery
    « Reply #42 on: August 31, 2019, 05:46:22 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
    • Quote from: Stubborn on August 31, 2019, 05:31:56 AM
    No, that is not what we all do.

    We are the faithful Catholics, we are not the ones who've departed from the unity of the Church, they did - of their own free will. Nor do we refuse to acknowledge the conciliar popes as valid popes, supreme head with universal jurisdiction. As such, we are not being schismatic.  

    Those who believe that the pope is not the pope, are those who refuse to acknowledge the popes as valid popes. Per the definition of Schismatic, there are only two possible results - they are the ones who either are certainly schismatic, or they risk being schismatic if their guess is wrong.  
    Attending the Masses of priests with no ministry in the Church against the order of the pope doesn't sound like respecting his jurisdiction. When's the last time you listened or paid heed to, much less obeyed, any order of the pope? You said yourself that the SSPX should ignore him entirely. 
    You say you recognise his "universal jurisdiction" - but to you that phrase is entirely meaningless. 
    Logged

    Offline Stubborn

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 14754
    • Reputation: +6088/-907
    • Gender: Male
    Re: The Crisis in the Church is a supernatural mystery
    « Reply #43 on: August 31, 2019, 06:39:41 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: forlorn on August 31, 2019, 05:46:22 AM
    Attending the Masses of priests with no ministry in the Church against the order of the pope doesn't sound like respecting his jurisdiction. When's the last time you listened or paid heed to, much less obeyed, any order of the pope? You said yourself that the SSPX should ignore him entirely.
    You say you recognise his "universal jurisdiction" - but to you that phrase is entirely meaningless.
    You neglect to incorporate the supreme rule into your accusations: "First we are under obedience to God, only then under obedience to man."

    For me, this rule is supreme and it applies always and everywhere to everyone, including laymen, priests, bishops and popes - but for me, it especially applies to me.

    It sounds like you not live by this rule, and/or you believe that some people are immune from living by it. But I do not believe that.

    It sounds as if you think we are some how forced to obey the popes heretical ideas, opinions, wishes and examples, even though doing so violates the supreme rule. I mean, it sounds like you think all those people who violate the supreme rule did not do so of their own free will, that some how they do so at the point of a gun or something.

    It seems as if you do not understand the concept of true obedience, or perhaps you go by the new concept of what obedience is, which is blind obedience, of which no Catholic above the age of reason is permitted.




    Logged
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline forlorn

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2521
    • Reputation: +1041/-1106
    • Gender: Male
    Re: The Crisis in the Church is a supernatural mystery
    « Reply #44 on: August 31, 2019, 10:49:31 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1
    • Quote from: Stubborn on August 31, 2019, 06:39:41 AM
    You neglect to incorporate the supreme rule into your accusations: "First we are under obedience to God, only then under obedience to man."

    For me, this rule is supreme and it applies always and everywhere to everyone, including laymen, priests, bishops and popes - but for me, it especially applies to me.

    It sounds like you not live by this rule, and/or you believe that some people are immune from living by it. But I do not believe that.

    It sounds as if you think we are some how forced to obey the popes heretical ideas, opinions, wishes and examples, even though doing so violates the supreme rule. I mean, it sounds like you think all those people who violate the supreme rule did not do so of their own free will, that some how they do so at the point of a gun or something.

    It seems as if you do not understand the concept of true obedience, or perhaps you go by the new concept of what obedience is, which is blind obedience, of which no Catholic above the age of reason is permitted.
    Except you ignore ALL the pope's ideas, opinions, wishes, laws, orders, etc. no matter what they are - and you said you wished the SSPX did the same. So you don't just ignore just the ones that you, in your private judgement(quite Protestant), judge to be heretical - but the whole lot. Ignoring the pope's jurisdiction and authority entirely. 

    Furthermore, the Catholic Encyclopedia defines schism as "the rupture of ecclesiastical union and unity". Seeing as the SSPX has irregular status and its priests do not have ministry within the Church, they are not in ecclesiastical union and unity. Their efforts to work with the diocesan authorities, attempts at rectifying that, were in fact condemned by yourself. You literally condemned them for attempting to mend their schism with the Church - all while you condemn others for being "schismatic". 
    Logged
    Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5
    « previous next »