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Author Topic: The Cozy relationship between the Neo-SSPX and the Novus Ordo deepens  (Read 2004 times)

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Offline Jr1991

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  •  An amazing chain of events then began to unfold. The mass in the Cathedral was attended by the Cardinal, three Florida bishops, and a great many clergy and faithful. Fr. Vernoy was on the sidewalk following the Mass, and as everyone exited the church, Bishop Estevez of recognized Father from his several visits over the years. His Excellency offered Father his Episcopal ring to kiss, which Father promptly did, much to the delight of the bishop!

    Father had planned to escort the freshly-crowned statue of Our Lady on foot to the shrine as she rode in a special charted bus, but we were invited by a friendly diocesan priest to ride in a bus reserved for the event. Upon arriving at the Nombre de Dios Mission, we thanked the priest who, reminding him that we were accustomed to arriving after walking and canoeing 120 miles on our annual pilgrimage.

    Because we were then “on the inside,” Father and I fell in directly behind the Cardinal and Bishop as the procession made its way through the throng of pilgrims who had come to be part of the event








    http://www.sspxflorida.com/en/news-events/news/saint-thomas-more-honors-our-lady-canonical-coronation-69321


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: The Cozy relationship between the Neo-SSPX and the Novus Ordo deepens
    « Reply #1 on: October 19, 2021, 01:36:20 PM »
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  • I seem to recall a post a few months back where Bp. Fellay casually admitted that the SSPX was fully regularized with Rome.

    Does anyone have more background on that?
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: The Cozy relationship between the Neo-SSPX and the Novus Ordo deepens
    « Reply #2 on: October 19, 2021, 02:03:33 PM »
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  • I seem to recall a post a few months back where Bp. Fellay casually admitted that the SSPX was fully regularized with Rome.

    Does anyone have more background on that?

    It was in relation to this (scroll down to #101):

    https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/catalog-of-compromise-change-and-contradiction-in-the-sspx/90/
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Online SimpleMan

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    Re: The Cozy relationship between the Neo-SSPX and the Novus Ordo deepens
    « Reply #3 on: October 19, 2021, 02:37:00 PM »
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  • I've noted here before --- and keep in mind that this is nothing more than the opinion of what is, at bottom, a highly educated hillbilly with a laptop --- that I have a pet theory, namely, that the "long game" may be to corral as many non-sedevacantist TLM adherents as possible, into an SSPX that becomes united or associated with the FSSP, ICKSP, and similar bodies, and then to propose a personal ordinariate, or even to create a new rite not unlike the Maronites, Melkites, and so on, essentially, a second Roman Rite.  Those who resist, both SV and non-SV, could then be painted as either gravely disobedience or (more likely) schismatic.  What would happen after that, one can only speculate.  Maybe nothing.  When you set a humane trap for an animal, it can either end well for the animal, or it can not end well.  It depends on what the trapper has in mind.

    I'm not sure how much of a "long game" even exists, though, because TC comes across as the desperate "last gasp" of a man who is afraid he is about to die, "guys, I may not make it, before I go, I'm going to throw the entire weight of the papacy against the Tridentine Latin Mass, insofar as I can, I'm going to get rid of it, and make the Novus Ordo the only game in town".  It does seem to have been a "rush job" of sorts, in that it has no vacatio legis, it doesn't even mention the SSPX --- a curious omission --- nor Canon 87 of the 1983 CIC:

    Can. 87 §1. A diocesan bishop, whenever he judges that it contributes to their spiritual good, is able to dispense the faithful from universal and particular disciplinary laws issued for his territory or his subjects by the supreme authority of the Church. He is not able to dispense, however, from procedural or penal laws nor from those whose dispensation is specially reserved to the Apostolic See or some other authority.

    Neither did he specifically mention Quo primum.  That is another curious omission.  Maybe that was a Rubicon he didn't want to cross, or maybe the Holy Ghost wouldn't permit it.  No way to say.

    Offline Jr1991

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    Re: The Cozy relationship between the Neo-SSPX and the Novus Ordo deepens
    « Reply #4 on: October 19, 2021, 08:41:12 PM »
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  • Like I have been saying for a while now. The chapels here in Florida are primarily made up of 90% Novus Ordo parishioners displaced during the Plandemic. The actual traditionalist, i.e., Catholics who were going to the SSPX chapels, have mostly left. This is completely fine with the Florida SSPX because they have increased their numbers which means more money. As far as the Catholics that supported the Society for decades, they could care less about them. It's all about money and thus the hyper pandering to the local Novus Ordo Bishops. Venroy should go and submit himself to Estevez already.


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: The Cozy relationship between the Neo-SSPX and the Novus Ordo deepens
    « Reply #5 on: October 19, 2021, 08:50:08 PM »
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  •  

    But most SSPXers will still deny any modernist changes are happening.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Jr1991

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    Re: The Cozy relationship between the Neo-SSPX and the Novus Ordo deepens
    « Reply #6 on: October 19, 2021, 09:02:47 PM »
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  • Well, at this point, if they don’t see the changes, they are either delusional or completely brainwashed.

    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: The Cozy relationship between the Neo-SSPX and the Novus Ordo deepens
    « Reply #7 on: October 19, 2021, 09:06:50 PM »
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  • I've noted here before --- and keep in mind that this is nothing more than the opinion of what is, at bottom, a highly educated hillbilly with a laptop --- that I have a pet theory, namely, that the "long game" may be to corral as many non-sedevacantist TLM adherents as possible, into an SSPX that becomes united or associated with the FSSP, ICKSP, and similar bodies, and then to propose a personal ordinariate, or even to create a new rite not unlike the Maronites, Melkites, and so on, essentially, a second Roman Rite.  Those who resist, both SV and non-SV, could then be painted as either gravely disobedience or (more likely) schismatic.  What would happen after that, one can only speculate.  Maybe nothing.  When you set a humane trap for an animal, it can either end well for the animal, or it can not end well.  It depends on what the trapper has in mind.

    I'm not sure how much of a "long game" even exists, though, because TC comes across as the desperate "last gasp" of a man who is afraid he is about to die, "guys, I may not make it, before I go, I'm going to throw the entire weight of the papacy against the Tridentine Latin Mass, insofar as I can, I'm going to get rid of it, and make the Novus Ordo the only game in town".  It does seem to have been a "rush job" of sorts, in that it has no vacatio legis, it doesn't even mention the SSPX --- a curious omission --- nor Canon 87 of the 1983 CIC:

    Can. 87 §1. A diocesan bishop, whenever he judges that it contributes to their spiritual good, is able to dispense the faithful from universal and particular disciplinary laws issued for his territory or his subjects by the supreme authority of the Church. He is not able to dispense, however, from procedural or penal laws nor from those whose dispensation is specially reserved to the Apostolic See or some other authority.

    Neither did he specifically mention Quo primum.  That is another curious omission.  Maybe that was a Rubicon he didn't want to cross, or maybe the Holy Ghost wouldn't permit it.  No way to say.

    This is right in line with what I suspect as well. The Neo-SSPX leaders are working to get the SSPX under the thumb of Modernist Rome, and then proceed to regularize them into the Novus Ordo. It is precisely what Bp. Williamson, Fr. Jenkins, Fr. Cekada, and Bp. Sanborn have been warning us about the neo-SSPX for years. These talks with the Modernists in Rome is nothing more than a honeypot to get as many unsuspecting traditional Catholics under the control of the Novus Ordo. I recall one of the SV clergy stating that the heads of the neo-SSPX want nothing more than to have their niche, their little corner, in the pantheon of the Novus Ordo. The SSPX leaders are really no different than indulters at this point: they want their "High Catholic" rite, a superficial "communion" with heretics.

    Look at what Francis pulled with Traditionis Custodes. I would fully expect him or a successor to do the same thing to a "regularized" SSPX.
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]


    Offline Jr1991

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    Re: The Cozy relationship between the Neo-SSPX and the Novus Ordo deepens
    « Reply #8 on: October 19, 2021, 09:16:21 PM »
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  • This is right in line with what I suspect as well. The Neo-SSPX leaders are working to get the SSPX under the thumb of Modernist Rome, and then proceed to regularize them into the Novus Ordo. It is precisely what Bp. Williamson, Fr. Jenkins, Fr. Cekada, and Bp. Sanborn have been warning us about the neo-SSPX for years. These talks with the Modernists in Rome is nothing more than a honeypot to get as many unsuspecting traditional Catholics under the control of the Novus Ordo. I recall one of the SV clergy stating that the heads of the neo-SSPX want nothing more than to have their niche, their little corner, in the pantheon of the Novus Ordo. The SSPX leaders are really no different than indulters at this point: they want their "High Catholic" rite, a superficial "communion" with heretics.

    Look at what Francis pulled with Traditionis Custodes. I would fully expect him or a successor to do the same thing to a "regularized" SSPX.


    Spot on---They desperately, and I mean desperately, want in. The Neo-SSPX is fascinated with the Novus Ordo. I don’t understand why I can only speculate that they wish for the same comfortable lives that the NO religion enjoys.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: The Cozy relationship between the Neo-SSPX and the Novus Ordo deepens
    « Reply #9 on: October 19, 2021, 09:39:19 PM »
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  • Like I have been saying for a while now. The chapels here in Florida are primarily made up of 90% Novus Ordo parishioners displaced during the Plandemic. The actual traditionalist, i.e., Catholics who were going to the SSPX chapels, have mostly left. This is completely fine with the Florida SSPX because they have increased their numbers which means more money. As far as the Catholics that supported the Society for decades, they could care less about them. It's all about money and thus the hyper pandering to the local Novus Ordo Bishops. Venroy should go and submit himself to Estevez already.

    Gratuitous, hyperbolic, unsubstantiated, etc...

    Do you really expect anyone to believe 90% of SSPXers have left, or are now outnumbered by Novus Ordo Catholics 10:1???
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Jr1991

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    Re: The Cozy relationship between the Neo-SSPX and the Novus Ordo deepens
    « Reply #10 on: October 19, 2021, 09:57:39 PM »
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  • Gratuitous, hyperbolic, unsubstantiated, etc...

    Do you really expect anyone to believe 90% of SSPXers have left, or are now outnumbered by Novus Ordo Catholics 10:1???

    Oh no. Entirely factual. How do I know? Because I have been to  three chapels in Florida pre COVID and post COVID, the increase and mix of parishioners is entirely different from even two years ago.

    You do not have to take my word for it; you can ask some of the SSPX Florida members on this forum, and some will tell you the same.

    I had an Usher tell me in one of the chapels they had one hundred attendees pre COVID;  after COVID, it was up to 275. He told me(not that I did not know why) that Parishioners from the Novus Ordo who were locked out during  COVID  started attending the SSPX chapel. After the Diocesan chapels opened, they decided to stay.








    Offline Jr1991

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    Re: The Cozy relationship between the Neo-SSPX and the Novus Ordo deepens
    « Reply #11 on: October 19, 2021, 10:01:04 PM »
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  • Gratuitous, hyperbolic, unsubstantiated, etc...

    Do you really expect anyone to believe 90% of SSPXers have left, or are now outnumbered by Novus Ordo Catholics 10:1???
     
    The 90% number is from one of the chapels down here—But I have friends who attend other chapels in the state(Including the priority in Sanford), and they have seen a similar influx.


    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: The Cozy relationship between the Neo-SSPX and the Novus Ordo deepens
    « Reply #12 on: October 19, 2021, 10:08:58 PM »
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  • So, where are the former SSPX people?

    Offline Jr1991

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    Re: The Cozy relationship between the Neo-SSPX and the Novus Ordo deepens
    « Reply #13 on: October 19, 2021, 10:21:15 PM »
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  • So, where are the former SSPX people?
    That is a good question. One that I have asked myself. Keep in mind that one SSPX chapel was closed during the pandemic and is now being sold off. It was located in the largest County in Florida. Some of those mass goers went up to the chapel in Davie. I would say about 5-10%. I guess the other 90% either stopped going to mass, started going to the local indult mass, or an independent chapel run by a Thuc Bishop. The others located in other parts of the state, I don't know. 


    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: The Cozy relationship between the Neo-SSPX and the Novus Ordo deepens
    « Reply #14 on: October 20, 2021, 02:17:46 AM »
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  • Gratuitous, hyperbolic, unsubstantiated, etc...

    Do you really expect anyone to believe 90% of SSPXers have left, or are now outnumbered by Novus Ordo Catholics 10:1???
    The SSPX as you know very well SJ is not what it used to be. The original founders of all the SSPX chapels in the USA, the original few serious Catholics who kept the faith and braved long drives and hard work just to have the mass, have been slowly replaced by the Neo-SSPX since like 2000, and today 20 years later, one can say that 90% of the SSPXers are gone. They have been replaced by what I would call SSPX Indulterers, Indult Mass type people who go there because it is convenient, for their children, it is more reverent, smells and bells... If and when the SSPX becomes lepers again, I think that we will see who really was serious. So, when the gentleman says 90% of the SSPXers have left that is what I think he really means.

    Now, add to that all of the Novus Ordos that abruptly came over during the plandemic, they represent about 66% of the parishioners in the largest SSPX mass center in Florida, the Sanford priory ( I can only assume it is the same in the other Florida chapels). Therefore, you have 10% real old time SSPX types, 23% neo-SSPX (really like indult types) and 66% Novus Ordo's ( indults and Novus Ordos). Many of these new types we hope will become serious Catholics, but from my life's experience, it will go the opposite direction, the rotten apple will spoil the barrel. Still God's Grace is there for everyone that is TRULY seeking the Faith. It will be like the 1960's, a few will survive this change for the worse.

    The Sanford, FL priory is just like any Catholic Church in 1965, really strikingly identical, and everything "was going great" then too. We are just living 1965 all over again.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24