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Author Topic: The changed form of Consecration of Bishops in 1968.  (Read 3632 times)

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Offline Gray2023

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The changed form of Consecration of Bishops in 1968.
« on: December 07, 2023, 08:15:47 AM »
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    • I think discussing what the Nine did to +ABL is starting an argument in the middle.

    Not that anybody really cares, but I think that most of us can agree that the NO changed things it shouldn't have changed.  We needed new Bishops to continue the church because the Consecration Form was changed in 1968.  Doubt of the bread being turned into the "Body of Christ" began to happen.  We no longer believe that Jesus is at NO altars.  If we ever get a Pope again, who is Catholic, he is going to have to remedy this first.  Because we believe Jesus is not at the NO altars, then we believe that we have to have "Emergency" priests who can continue Christ's Church.  Aren't these priests and bishops limited to what they can do because they do not have jurisdiction? Doesn't this need to be discussed first.  +ABL picked one path +Thuc picked another.  They both saw the need for an "Emergency".  I guess we just need to pray really hard for a Catholic Pope to remedy this first problem, before the rest can be figured out (what missal to use?, +ABL vs +Thuc, UNa cuм vs non-una cuм).  Do people really think that the people who accept the +Thuc lines bishops are not Catholic?  

    Maybe I am wrong, but I wanted to see how a discussion would go on this topic.  If there was one years ago, I am sorry for starting it again.

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    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: The changed form of Consecration of Bishops in 1968.
    « Reply #1 on: December 07, 2023, 08:35:18 AM »
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    • Quote from: Gray2023 on December 07, 2023, 08:15:47 AM
    Not that anybody really cares, but I think that most of us can agree that the NO changed things it shouldn't have changed.

    Yes, that's why we're Traditional Catholics and here on CathInfo.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: The changed form of Consecration of Bishops in 1968.
    « Reply #2 on: December 07, 2023, 08:36:45 AM »
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    • Quote from: Gray2023 on December 07, 2023, 08:15:47 AM
    Aren't these priests and bishops limited to what they can do because they do not have jurisdiction?

    Yes, both Trad bishops and priests simply have enough Church-supplied jurisdiction to provide for the needs of the faithful, basically to confect the Sacraments.
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    Offline Gray2023

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    Re: The changed form of Consecration of Bishops in 1968.
    « Reply #3 on: December 07, 2023, 10:36:06 AM »
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    • Quote from: Gray2023 on December 07, 2023, 08:15:47 AM
    Do people really think that the people who accept the +Thuc lines bishops are not Catholic? 
    I really feel that people think this, but nobody says anything.  Why?

    I guess if we say it aloud then we have to address that some here have left the Catholic Church. :confused:

    This all matters to me because my son is trying to find a Seminary that forms priests well, but with all of the differences, he can't find a good Seminary. Does anyone have suggestions on how he can become a priest? (sorry for the change of topic, but I guess this is my real issue)
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    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"

    Offline Angelus

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    Re: The changed form of Consecration of Bishops in 1968.
    « Reply #4 on: December 07, 2023, 11:19:00 AM »
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    • Quote from: Gray2023 on December 07, 2023, 10:36:06 AM
    I really feel that people think this, but nobody says anything.  Why?

    I guess if we say it aloud then we have to address that some here have left the Catholic Church. :confused:

    This all matters to me because my son is trying to find a Seminary that forms priests well, but with all of the differences, he can't find a good Seminary. Does anyone have suggestions on how he can become a priest? (sorry for the change of topic, but I guess this is my real issue)

    Can you give more detail regarding why "he can't find a good Seminary?"

    Where has he looked? Diocesan? FSSP? SSPX? Sede?

    Why did he not like those that he looked at?
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    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: The changed form of Consecration of Bishops in 1968.
    « Reply #5 on: December 07, 2023, 11:29:33 AM »
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    • Quote from: Gray2023 on December 07, 2023, 10:36:06 AM
    I really feel that people think this, but nobody says anything.  Why?

    I guess if we say it aloud then we have to address that some here have left the Catholic Church. :confused:

    This all matters to me because my son is trying to find a Seminary that forms priests well, but with all of the differences, he can't find a good Seminary. Does anyone have suggestions on how he can become a priest? (sorry for the change of topic, but I guess this is my real issue)
    Talk to Fr. Alphonsus when he gets back, Dec. 13th I believe
    https://redemptoris.org/vocation-info
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    Offline Gray2023

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    Re: The changed form of Consecration of Bishops in 1968.
    « Reply #6 on: December 07, 2023, 11:43:16 AM »
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    • And there is the problem.

    Fssp is diocesan and part of the NO.

    Sspx probably wont let him say a first mass at the church that formed him.

    Sede CMRI, do they form good priests? He will probably check them out soon.

    Sgg? Straight sede. Seminary is very new.

    Resistance no good seminary that i know of.  How are they getting priests?

    SSPV Sede, but say Thuc line isnt good.  We dont think that.

    Etc.

    He definately does not want to learn the 1962 rubrics because he was raised in pre 55.

    Ok after i typed all of that, i just want to give up.

    There are too many fights now to form good Catholic priests.

    I guess we are heading toward the CMRI, unless there are other options we havent thought of.  Which is why I was asking the question here, to see if i am missing some options. 



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    Offline Gray2023

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    Re: The changed form of Consecration of Bishops in 1968.
    « Reply #7 on: December 07, 2023, 11:58:24 AM »
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    • Quote from: Gray2023 on December 07, 2023, 11:43:16 AM

    There are too many fights now to form good Catholic priests.
    And what i mean by this is that it seems most of these groups dont seem to work together for the benefit of saving souls, but i guess when their isnt a Pope, this is what happens.  We just need some priests to put aside some of these differences so the Faithful dont feel like they sin for one group and not for another.  I am just a frustrated mother, who wonders why God has kept this going on so long.  Do we really deserve ir or us man perpetuating it.  I just dont know.
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    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"

    Offline Angelus

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    Re: The changed form of Consecration of Bishops in 1968.
    « Reply #8 on: December 07, 2023, 12:08:25 PM »
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    • Quote from: Gray2023 on December 07, 2023, 11:43:16 AM
    And there is the problem.

    Fssp is diocesan and part of the NO.

    Sspx probably wont let him say a first mass at the church that formed him.

    Sede CMRI, do they form good priests? He will probably check them out soon.

    Sgg? Straight sede. Seminary is very new.

    Resistance no good seminary that i know of.  How are they getting priests?

    SSPV Sede, but say Thuc line isnt good.  We dont think that.

    Etc.

    He definately does not want to learn the 1962 rubrics because he was raised in pre 55.

    Ok after i typed all of that, i just want to give up.

    There are too many fights now to form good Catholic priests.

    I guess we are heading toward the CMRI, unless there are other options we havent thought of.  Which is why I was asking the question here, to see if i am missing some options.

    Well, if your son wants to avoid the 1962 missal, then Bp. Sanborn's seminary seems like the most obvious one to investigate first.

    https://www.youtube.com/@mhtseminary

    Here is a video of a recently ordained priest from MHT. I don't know him but I liked the video because he lays out his reasons for ultimately choosing MHT seminary after growing up in the Novus Ordo in Austria. He was in the SSPX seminary in Germany for two years before leaving to finish up at Bp. Sanborn's seminary.


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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: The changed form of Consecration of Bishops in 1968.
    « Reply #9 on: December 07, 2023, 12:12:11 PM »
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    • Quote from: Gray2023 on December 07, 2023, 11:43:16 AM
    And there is the problem.

    Fssp is diocesan and part of the NO.

    Sspx probably wont let him say a first mass at the church that formed him.

    Sede CMRI, do they form good priests? He will probably check them out soon.

    Sgg? Straight sede. Seminary is very new.

    Resistance no good seminary that i know of.  How are they getting priests?

    SSPV Sede, but say Thuc line isnt good.  We dont think that.

    Etc.

    He definately does not want to learn the 1962 rubrics because he was raised in pre 55.

    Ok after i typed all of that, i just want to give up.

    There are too many fights now to form good Catholic priests.

    I guess we are heading toward the CMRI, unless there are other options we havent thought of.  Which is why I was asking the question here, to see if i am missing some options.
    The CMRI is an excellent choice. 

    Home – (materdeiseminary.org)
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    Offline Angelus

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    Re: The changed form of Consecration of Bishops in 1968.
    « Reply #10 on: December 07, 2023, 12:28:40 PM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on December 07, 2023, 12:12:11 PM
    The CMRI is an excellent choice. 

    Home – (materdeiseminary.org)

    I agree. We attend Mass where one of the priests is a newly-ordained CMRI priest. Very well-formed, Marian priest. 
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: The changed form of Consecration of Bishops in 1968.
    « Reply #11 on: December 07, 2023, 12:34:11 PM »
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    • Quote from: Angelus on December 07, 2023, 12:28:40 PM
    I agree. We attend Mass where one of the priests is a newly-ordained CMRI priest. Very well-formed, Marian priest.
    I also think that Bishop Pivarunas is a very temperate and humble man.  I was honored to be confirmed by him in 2021.
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    Offline Gray2023

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    Re: The changed form of Consecration of Bishops in 1968.
    « Reply #12 on: December 07, 2023, 01:04:07 PM »
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    • Maybe the CMRI is where God is directing us.  Please pray for us.

    Thank you for the information.
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    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: The changed form of Consecration of Bishops in 1968.
    « Reply #13 on: December 07, 2023, 01:13:46 PM »
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    • Quote from: Gray2023 on December 07, 2023, 11:43:16 AM
    He definately does not want to learn the 1962 rubrics because he was raised in pre 55.

    I'm pretty sure CMRI use the Pius XII Holy Week Rites (1955).

    Another option, sede (or, rather, sedeprivationist) would be Bishop Sanborn's seminary.
    https://mostholytrinityseminary.org/

    Pre-1955 Liturgy, +Thuc line bishop via +Thuc->+Guerard es Lauriers->+McKenna->+Sanborn, so a solid line.

    Very sedeprivationist (aka practical sedevacantist) however.

    They're very well organized and provide a solid formation.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: The changed form of Consecration of Bishops in 1968.
    « Reply #14 on: December 07, 2023, 01:15:17 PM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on December 07, 2023, 12:12:11 PM
    The CMRI is an excellent choice. 

    Home – (materdeiseminary.org)

    Do the CMRI use the 1962 Missal or just the Pius XII (1955) Holy Week Rites?
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