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Author Topic: The Chair is vacant!!  (Read 5158 times)

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Offline Petertherock

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The Chair is vacant!!
« on: November 06, 2014, 10:51:06 PM »
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  • Seriously...if he has a bag over his head, how do we know who is in the Chair of Peter?


    At yesterday's General Audience, the 'god of surprises' teamed up with the 'spirit of Vatican II'...


    Offline Mabel

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    The Chair is vacant!!
    « Reply #1 on: November 06, 2014, 10:59:28 PM »
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  • That's a good look for him, it covers up his modernist smirk.


    Offline andysloan

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    The Chair is vacant!!
    « Reply #2 on: November 06, 2014, 11:14:52 PM »
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  • Yet another example of "charity" from "those who know".
       

    Jude 1:8


    "In like manner these men also defile the flesh, and despise dominion, and blaspheme majesty. "

    Offline Disputaciones

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    The Chair is vacant!!
    « Reply #3 on: November 07, 2014, 12:27:34 AM »
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  • I think that's not the first time he turns into a KKK member.

    Offline Disputaciones

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    The Chair is vacant!!
    « Reply #4 on: November 07, 2014, 12:36:06 AM »
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  • Quote from: Petertherock
    Seriously...if he has a bag over his head, how do we know who is in the Chair of Peter?


    Chair of Peter? Just look at the regular reception room chair he uses.


    Offline Jehanne

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    The Chair is vacant!!
    « Reply #5 on: November 07, 2014, 06:14:21 AM »
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  • Quote from: andysloan
    Yet another example of "charity" from "those who know".
       

    Jude 1:8


    "In like manner these men also defile the flesh, and despise dominion, and blaspheme majesty. "


    Yeah, this was from a "Pope" who said, "I believe in God, not in a Catholic God.”  This is, perhaps, the most uncharitable comment that any Roman Pontiff has made about the omnipotent One and Triune God, who is very much Catholic!

    Online Ladislaus

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    The Chair is vacant!!
    « Reply #6 on: November 07, 2014, 08:58:39 AM »
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  • When he met with the Jєωs he hid his pectoral cross / crucifix, so it's only fitting that God hide his face in return.  Whoever denies Our Lord will be denied by Him.

    Offline andysloan

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    The Chair is vacant!!
    « Reply #7 on: November 07, 2014, 09:53:15 PM »
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  • Whatever imprudences Pope Francis commits, he is still the Pope.

    And has God given a licence to mock others?


    Jude 1:9

    "When Michael the archangel, disputing with the devil, contended about the body of Moses, he durst not bring against him the judgment of railing speech, but said: The Lord command thee."


       

    Proverbs 3:32

    "For every mocker is an abomination to the Lord."



    Leave it to God!


    "Even if that vicar were a devil incarnate, I must not defy him, but calmly lie down to rest on his bosom... He who rebels against our Father is condemned to death, for that which we do to him we do to Christ: we honor Christ if we honor the Pope; we dishonor Christ if we dishonor the Pope." (St Catherine of Siena - Letter to Bernabo Visconti)


    "Divine obedience never prevents us from obedience to the Holy Father: nay, the more perfect the one, the more perfect is the other. And we ought always to be subject to his commands and obedient unto death. However indiscreet obedience to him might seem, and however it should deprive us of mental peace and consolation, we ought to obey; and I consider that to do the opposite is a great imperfection, and deceit of the devil." (Letter to Brother Antonio of Nizza).


    Offline roscoe

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    The Chair is vacant!!
    « Reply #8 on: November 07, 2014, 10:41:28 PM »
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  • Quote from: andysloan
    Whatever imprudences Pope Francis commits, he is still the Pope.

     


    His ' Imprudences' are disputed by many.

    History says that the anti-pope Frank( like Boniface-- it takes only about 6 months to make Celestine a Saint) is not legally elected-- nor did he obtain his position by any other means that could be considered legal.
     :judge:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline andysloan

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    The Chair is vacant!!
    « Reply #9 on: November 07, 2014, 11:49:13 PM »
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  • To Roscoe:


    Your position is contrary to doctrine


    Vatican 1: session 4 (1870)


    Therefore, if anyone says that it is not by the institution of Christ the lord himself (that is to say, by divine law) that blessed Peter should have perpetual successors in the primacy over the whole church; or that the Roman pontiff is not the successor of blessed Peter in this primacy:
    let him be anathema




    Private declaration and deposition of a Pope prohibited by Our Lord:


    Matthew 18:15-17

    ""But if thy brother shall offend against thee, go, and rebuke him between thee and him alone. If he shall hear thee, thou shalt gain thy brother.
    And if he will not hear thee, take with thee one or two more: that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may stand.  And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican."


    Matthew 23:1-3

    "Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to his disciples,  Saying: The scribes and the Pharisees have sitten on the chair of Moses. All things therefore whatsoever they shall say to you, observe and do: but according to their works do ye not; for they say, and do not."

    "St. Jerome - in saying that a heretic departs on his own from the Body of Christ - does not preclude the Church's judgment, especially in so grave a matter as is the deposition of a pope. He refers instead to the nature of that crime, which is such as to cut someone off from the Church on its own and without other censure in addition to it - yet only so long as it should be declared by the Church... So long as he has not become declared to us juridically as an infidel or heretic, be he ever so manifestly heretical according to private judgment, he remains as far as we are concerned a member of the Church and consequently its head. Judgment is required by the Church. It is only then that he ceases to be Pope as far as we are concerned" (Spanish theologian - John of St. Thomas).



    "He left you this sweet key of obedience; for as you know He left His vicar, the Christ, on earth, whom you are all obliged to obey until death, and whoever is outside His obedience is in a state of damnation, as I have already told you in another place." (God the Father - Dialogues; Treatise on Obedience)

    Offline Jehanne

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    The Chair is vacant!!
    « Reply #10 on: November 08, 2014, 07:43:43 AM »
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  • Quote from: andysloan
    Whatever imprudences Pope Francis commits, he is still the Pope.


    See my post on the excommunication of Pope Honorius:

    http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/The-excommunication-of-Pope-Honorius-I

    Are you claiming that if Francis would deny the bodily Assumption of Mary into Heaven, stating that such was only "allegorical" and not a real, historical event, why would be obliged to "obey" him?


    Offline RomanCatholic1953

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    The Chair is vacant!!
    « Reply #11 on: November 08, 2014, 03:50:23 PM »
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  • Quote from: Jehanne
    Quote from: andysloan
    Whatever imprudences Pope Francis commits, he is still the Pope.


    See my post on the excommunication of Pope Honorius:

    http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/The-excommunication-of-Pope-Honorius-I

    Are you claiming that if Francis would deny the bodily Assumption of Mary into Heaven, stating that such was only "allegorical" and not a real, historical event, why would be obliged to "obey" him?


    Andy Sloan,

    It is more than imprudence when a Pope declares that there is no Catholic God,
    and atheists can go to heaven.







    Offline andysloan

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    The Chair is vacant!!
    « Reply #12 on: November 08, 2014, 05:06:38 PM »
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  • It is clear as follows, that God preserves the Church from dogmatic error:


    1 Timothy 3:15


    "But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth."


    Matthew 23:1-3


    "Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to his disciples,  Saying: The scribes and the Pharisees have sitten on the chair of Moses. All things therefore whatsoever they shall say to you, observe and do: but according to their works do ye not; for they say, and do not."


    Thus the hypothetical example you give is inadmissable.

    It is also clear from Christ's teaching that we must submit to the authority of "the chair", even if it be occupied by "scribes and pharisee's."

       
    Thus, if Pope Francis speaking personally says something erroneous v the Catholic faith, then certainly we will reject it, but we are not obliged to believe everything a pope says, only what is solemnly defined. But, we are forbidden to reject the legitimate authority of a canonically elected Pope!


    St Thomas illuminates in speaking of canonisations:

    "Divine providence preserves the Church lest in such matters it should err through the fallible testimony of men. "

    Offline andysloan

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    The Chair is vacant!!
    « Reply #13 on: November 08, 2014, 05:16:26 PM »
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  • Pope Honorius  was posthumously anathematized with the Monothelites at the Third Council of Constantinople.

    But, first of all, by who was he anathematized by? A legitimate Church body in accordance with Matthew 18:15-17

    Despite his heresy, did Pope Honorius define any dogmatic error? No! Because God preserves the Church (see above post).


    But Pope Honorius was still a valid Pope, because he was not anathematized/deposed during his reign.

    "St. Jerome - in saying that a heretic departs on his own from the Body of Christ - does not preclude the Church's judgment, especially in so grave a matter as is the deposition of a pope. He refers instead to the nature of that crime, which is such as to cut someone off from the Church on its own and without other censure in addition to it - yet only so long as it should be declared by the Church... So long as he has not become declared to us juridically as an infidel or heretic, be he ever so manifestly heretical according to private judgment, he remains as far as we are concerned a member of the Church and consequently its head. Judgment is required by the Church. It is only then that he ceases to be Pope as far as we are concerned" (John of St. Thomas).


    Hence we submit to Pope Francis as holder of the keys, whilst ignoring any errors.


    "Divine obedience never prevents us from obedience to the Holy Father: nay, the more perfect the one, the more perfect is the other. And we ought always to be subject to his commands and obedient unto death. However indiscreet obedience to him might seem, and however it should deprive us of mental peace and consolation, we ought to obey; and I consider that to do the opposite is a great imperfection, and deceit of the devil."
    (St Catherine of Siena - Letter to Brother Antonio of Nizza).

    Offline Jehanne

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    The Chair is vacant!!
    « Reply #14 on: November 08, 2014, 05:38:48 PM »
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  • Quote from: andysloan
    "Divine obedience never prevents us from obedience to the Holy Father: nay, the more perfect the one, the more perfect is the other. And we ought always to be subject to his commands and obedient unto death. However indiscreet obedience to him might seem, and however it should deprive us of mental peace and consolation, we ought to obey; and I consider that to do the opposite is a great imperfection, and deceit of the devil." (St Catherine of Siena - Letter to Brother Antonio of Nizza).


    You keep quoting Saint Catherine of Siena, but she denied the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary:

    Quote
    Benedict XIV ("On Heroic Virtue" III.53.#16) examines an ecstasy of 1377 of St.  Catherine of Siena, in which the Blessed Virgin seems to deny the Immaculate Conception.  Benedict quotes some authors who try to blame editors or directors. But it is very possibly her preconceived ideas - Dominican opposition to Immaculate Conception - really caused the "vision".


    http://www.ewtn.com/library/scriptur/disspr.txt

    Hence, Saint Catherine was not infallible in everything which she said and wrote.

    Quote from: andysloan
    Hence we submit to Pope Francis as holder of the keys, whilst ignoring any errors.


    I am not sure how this is at all contrary to the Sedeprivationism position:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedeprivationism

    By the way, the "salvation of souls" is the "highest law of the Church":

    Quote
    Can. 1752 In cases of transfer the prescripts of can. 1747 are to be applied, canonical equity is to be observed, and the salvation of souls, which must always be the supreme law in the Church, is to be kept before one’s eyes.


    Note that the above canon is the very last canon of the 1983 Code of Canon Law, which Archbishop Lefebvre appealed to as for the justification for the ordination of the (then) four SSPX bishops.

    http://www.jgray.org/codes/cic83eng.html