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Author Topic: The biggest reason I'm not Sede  (Read 248383 times)

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Offline Freind

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Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
« Reply #90 on: November 24, 2025, 06:08:42 PM »
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    • Quote from: Bonafidecat on November 24, 2025, 05:55:10 PM
    Forgive me this question if it has already been addressed, but as someone relatively new to all this, I'll ask it.

    From the sede point of view, how will we know when a true Pope is identified and elected?  Who will make the call?  Given that they seem to be split on numerous doctrines such as EENS, BOD...it will be impossible for any Pope to satisfy all of them.

    Read my previous post.
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    Offline Freind

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #91 on: November 24, 2025, 06:13:56 PM »
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    • Quote from: Matthew on November 12, 2025, 12:48:56 AM
    Sedevacantism hasn't been the solution; it hasn't solved the Crisis. It has been as impotent as the non-sedevacantists.

    Truth itself leads to solutions, though you don't see them yet.
    Take care to follow the truth, come what may.
    Believing that no true pope could possibly be behind Vatican II is a major truth.
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    Offline SkidRowCatholic

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #92 on: November 24, 2025, 06:36:42 PM »
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    • Quote from: JeanBaptistedeCouetus on November 24, 2025, 06:01:32 PM
    To make the meaning unmistakable, here is the correct theological formulation of what I meant:
    Maybe just stick to trolling and blowing your Trumpet and stay away from hypothetical Christ-scenarios used to disparage others as these could be misinterpreted as heresies and/or construed as being a disrespectful way of using the Blood of Christ to denigrate others as if He was some sort of propaganda tool...

    Quote from: JeanBaptistedeCouetus on November 24, 2025, 06:01:32 PM
    It is simply saying: even if the Truth Himself stood in front of them, they would still reject Him.
    Reject Christ how?
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    Offline WorldsAway

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #93 on: November 24, 2025, 07:00:30 PM »
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    • Quote from: SkidRowCatholic on November 24, 2025, 06:36:42 PM
    Reject Christ how?
    He'll probably say something about how by rejecting the papal claimants you're, by extension, rejecting Christ. Meanwhile, Jean's True Remnant recognizes the Vicar of Christ..but has just resisted them all for 50+ years. Of course, that doesn't mean they resist Christ by extension. That only applies to sedes :jester:
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    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    Offline JeanBaptistedeCouetus

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #94 on: November 24, 2025, 07:30:06 PM »
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    • Quote from: SkidRowCatholic on November 24, 2025, 06:36:42 PM
    Maybe just stick to trolling and blowing your Trumpet and stay away from hypothetical Christ-scenarios used to disparage others as these could be misinterpreted as heresies and/or construed as being a disrespectful way of using the Blood of Christ to denigrate others as if He was some sort of propaganda tool...
    Reject Christ how?
    Even popes like Formosus, tried posthumously in the Cadaver Synod, and Honorius I, anathematized by council, show that scandal, sin, or error never invalidates the papacy, and the See endures despite human failings, for as St. Thomas Aquinas teaches, “It is not necessary for the validity of an office that the holder be holy, but only that he be rightly appointed.”
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    Offline JeanBaptistedeCouetus

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #95 on: November 24, 2025, 07:55:01 PM »
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    • Quote from: WorldsAway on November 24, 2025, 07:00:30 PM
    He'll probably say something about how by rejecting the papal claimants you're, by extension, rejecting Christ. Meanwhile, Jean's True Remnant recognizes the Vicar of Christ..but has just resisted them all for 50+ years. Of course, that doesn't mean they resist Christ by extension. That only applies to sedes :jester:
    Lay Catholics cannot depose, judge, or punish the pope, even if he teaches error or imposes sacrilegious laws, because the papal office is divinely instituted and indefectible. As St. Robert Bellarmine explains, it is lawful to resist a pope who issues morally evil commands that harm souls or the Church, but one may not judge, punish, or depose him (De Romano Pontifice, Book II, Chapter 29). Lay Catholics can therefore refuse to obey evil commands, avoid participating in sacrilegious acts, pray for the pope’s conversion, educate and defend the Faith, and support faithful clergy, all without rejecting the pope as Vicar of Christ. This is lawful resistance and is clearly distinguished from sedevacantism

    Sedevacantism, by contrast, is a modern novelty publicly articulated in the early 1970s by Fr. Joaquín Sáenz y Arriaga.
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    Offline SkidRowCatholic

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #96 on: November 24, 2025, 08:38:17 PM »
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    • Quote from: JeanBaptistedeCouetus on November 24, 2025, 07:30:06 PM
    Even popes like Formosus, tried posthumously...
    :confused:... Sorry, I missed the part where you were going to tell us how Catholics - who are morally certain the man sitting in the Chair Of Peter is a non-Catholic pretender - are "rejecting Christ".
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    Offline WorldsAway

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #97 on: November 24, 2025, 08:47:14 PM »
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    • Quote from: JeanBaptistedeCouetus on November 24, 2025, 07:55:01 PM
    Lay Catholics cannot depose, judge, or punish the pope
    Begging the question

    Quote
    even if he teaches error...because the papal office is...indefectible
    Pick one

    Quote
    pray for the pope’s conversion
    Conversion to what?

    Quote
    Sedevacantism, by contrast, is a modern novelty
    Resisting the teachings and commands of ~5 consecutive popes is a modern novelty as well.

    Quote
    publicly articulated in the early 1970s by Fr. Joaquín Sáenz y Arriaga.
    Early 1970s you say? I wonder what could have happened in the 1970s for it to be when some Catholics began to doubt whether or not the popes were actually popes ::) Why weren't Catholics claiming Pius XII, or XI, or Benedict XV were false popes? Probably because they weren't heretics
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    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #98 on: Yesterday at 04:44:44 AM »
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    • Quote from: Bonafidecat on November 24, 2025, 05:55:10 PM
    Forgive me this question if it has already been addressed, but as someone relatively new to all this, I'll ask it.

    From the sede point of view, how will we know when a true Pope is identified and elected?  Who will make the call?  Given that they seem to be split on numerous doctrines such as EENS, BOD...it will be impossible for any Pope to satisfy all of them. 
    That question has been asked many times, never answered sufficiently. This is due to the fact that sedeism is nothing but an opinion that most often evolves over a short period of time into a dogmatic fact among those who delve into the idea. As such, it is almost impossible to expect sedes to agree on if one is a "true pope" even after examining him under the proverbial magnifying glass.

    When sedeism is taken to it's logical conclusion, the Church has no head, therefore no hierarchy (they're all heretics), therefore no priests at all.....except somewhere hiding in the woods or a jungle, it is said that there is a lone true bishop still living who has the faith. 

    This guy really takes it to it's logical conclusion, he's a hard core sede who has actually docuмented all the heresies since Pope Innocent II and concludes that there have been no popes since 1130.         
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Freind

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #99 on: Yesterday at 11:36:26 AM »
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    • Quote from: JeanBaptistedeCouetus on November 24, 2025, 07:55:01 PM
    Lay Catholics cannot depose, judge, or punish the pope, even if he teaches error or imposes sacrilegious laws, because the papal office is divinely instituted and indefectible. As St. Robert Bellarmine explains, it is lawful to resist a pope who issues morally evil commands that harm souls or the Church, but one may not judge, punish, or depose him (De Romano Pontifice, Book II, Chapter 29). Lay Catholics can therefore refuse to obey evil commands, avoid participating in sacrilegious acts, pray for the pope’s conversion, educate and defend the Faith, and support faithful clergy, all without rejecting the pope as Vicar of Christ. This is lawful resistance and is clearly distinguished from sedevacantism

    Sedevacantism, by contrast, is a modern novelty publicly articulated in the early 1970s by Fr. Joaquín Sáenz y Arriaga.

    Do you know that judging that a man is not the pope is not judging a pope?

    And, it is not a modern novelty.
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    Offline JeanBaptistedeCouetus

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #100 on: Yesterday at 12:55:35 PM »
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    • Quote from: Freind on Yesterday at 11:36:26 AM
    Do you know that judging that a man is not the pope is not judging a pope?

    And, it is not a modern novelty.
    You can trace your sect back to the 1970s and to Fr. Joaquín Sáenz y Arriaga.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #101 on: Yesterday at 02:50:54 PM »
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    • Quote from: Bonafidecat on November 24, 2025, 05:55:10 PM
    Forgive me this question if it has already been addressed, but as someone relatively new to all this, I'll ask it.

    From the sede point of view, how will we know when a true Pope is identified and elected?  Who will make the call?  Given that they seem to be split on numerous doctrines such as EENS, BOD...it will be impossible for any Pope to satisfy all of them.

    This is a question whether or not one is SV.  From the R&R perspective, what? ... so we just wait until the Conciliars happen to elect someone who's actually Catholic?  Then what defines whether he's actually Catholic?


    As has been made quite clear by a huge body of Catholic prophecy, God will intervene to fix the problem (with as per Anna Maria Taigi or some other means) ... God will fix it, even if at this time it remains unclear how.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #102 on: Yesterday at 02:55:34 PM »
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    • Quote from: Freind on November 24, 2025, 03:41:00 AM
    Sedes don't judge popes. They judge that a particular man cannot be, or could not have been, a true pope. Entirely two different things.

    I don't even think that the judging the person suffices.  I think that sedevacantists simply judge that the Conciliar Church is not the Catholic Church by any stretch, and since it was created by these putative popes, they cannot have been popes, or at least, freely functioning as popes.

    I do think the "personal manifest heresy" angle is a total dead end.

    There was very little there for the Church to have judged Roncalli a pertinacious manifest heretic.  Despite his file having labeled him as "suspect", he was still permitted to hold high office in the Church, and even made a Cardinal.

    Then when it comes to Montini ... I have not yet seen a shred of evidence from before he was "(s)elected" demonstrating that he was a manifest heretic.  If such can be found at this time, it's so obscure as to not have qualified as being sufficiently manifest to render him a non-member of the Church.  But thus far no one has ever even presented anything.  You can't just depose him after he starts teaching.

    At the end of the day, it's the Siri Theory that explains everything ... with nothing else coming close.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #103 on: Yesterday at 03:02:05 PM »
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    • Quote from: JeanBaptistedeCouetus on Yesterday at 12:55:35 PM
    You can trace your sect back to the 1970s and to Fr. Joaquín Sáenz y Arriaga.

    So, the only "sect" that was created was the Conciliar Church, and everything else is merely a response do it.

    Whether you belong to the Conciliar Church or you are of the R&R variety that holds legitimate Popes are not protected by the Holy Ghost, per Our Lord's promises, not to substantially corrupt the faith and the Church to the point that the Church no longer has the notes of the Church (as admitted by +Lefebvre) ... then you're just a run of the mill non-Catholic heretic, and your sect actually started with the Prots.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #104 on: Yesterday at 03:03:55 PM »
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    • So, is this JeanBaptiste-deJackass another Salza account?
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