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Author Topic: The biggest reason I'm not Sede  (Read 203465 times)

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Offline Seraphina

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Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
« Reply #60 on: November 20, 2025, 09:46:38 PM »
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    • Is it possible Bp. Williamson was wrong?  He also said he could not in an absolute manner, as binding in conscience under penalty of mortal sin, forbid attendance at the novus ordo. 
    I haven’t the time to look it up now, but he published a much more recent Eleison Comments saying exactly that. 
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    Offline JeanBaptistedeCouetus

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #61 on: November 21, 2025, 06:35:35 AM »
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    • Quote from: Seraphina on November 20, 2025, 09:46:38 PM
    Is it possible Bp. Williamson was wrong?  He also said he could not in an absolute manner, as binding in conscience under penalty of mortal sin, forbid attendance at the novus ordo.
    I haven’t the time to look it up now, but he published a much more recent Eleison Comments saying exactly that.
    In his golden years he was right.
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    Offline JeanBaptistedeCouetus

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #62 on: November 21, 2025, 06:37:22 AM »
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    • Quote from: Bonafidecat on November 20, 2025, 08:53:04 PM

    Interesting.  Fr. Cekada remarks that the Abp allowed some of his priests to hold the sede position.  Cekada says they took the Abp's sedevacantist-like comments to their logical conclusion.  Cekada doesn't go so far as to accuse the Abp of holding the sede position, though.
     
    https://youtu.be/DqgcCujfQF0?si=lbA55xoWQXk3krAm
    I am siding with the three bishops on this one.
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    Offline Bonafidecat

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #63 on: November 21, 2025, 05:23:05 PM »
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    • Quote from: JeanBaptistedeCouetus on November 21, 2025, 06:37:22 AM
    I am siding with the three bishops on this one.
    I don't feel the need to side with anyone here.  Did the bishops deny that the Abp ever used sede-like language, as demonstrated by Fr. Cekada?  If not, then I don't see a conflict.  Fr. Cekada never accuses the Abp of embracing sedevacantism, but he does bring the receipts showing the Abp making sede-like accusations.   
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    Offline JeanBaptistedeCouetus

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #64 on: November 21, 2025, 09:22:04 PM »
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    • Quote from: Bonafidecat on November 21, 2025, 05:23:05 PM
    I don't feel the need to side with anyone here.  Did the bishops deny that the Abp ever used sede-like language, as demonstrated by Fr. Cekada?  If not, then I don't see a conflict.  Fr. Cekada never accuses the Abp of embracing sedevacantism, but he does bring the receipts showing the Abp making sede-like accusations. 
    Father Cekada was expelled by Archbishop Lefebvre. 

    While Lefebvre occasionally used strong language condemning Modernist Romes errors he never denied the papacy or broke communion with the Church. 



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    Online Michaelknoxville

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #65 on: November 21, 2025, 09:26:28 PM »
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    • Quote from: TomGubbinsKimmage on November 12, 2025, 01:15:22 AM
    Good post.
    I see bitterness and anger with these people.
    Its very sad
    You can see that in trads too. I understand their frustrations and sympathize but you end up becoming a Pharisee at a certain point and forget it’s not necessarily about the church but the souls being lost because of the distractions. 
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    Offline Freind

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #66 on: Yesterday at 05:49:15 PM »
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    • Quote from: Matthew on November 12, 2025, 12:48:56 AM
    Is because "sedevacantism" is divisive. It's adding a COMPLETELY UN-NECESSARY division to the world of Traditional Catholicism.

    In other words, I'm not against individual "sedevacantists" for their opinion. Their opinion doesn't make me angry. The whole idea of "sedevacantism" as an identity DOES make me angry, however. "Traditional Catholic" should be enough. The idea that "sedevacantists" need to worship only with other "sedevacantists" at special "sedevacantist" chapels.

    I just happened to be cleaning up my email subscription list on the Web after some years, and tested whether this login was valid. It is! I am posting here because I know it is not good etiquette to respond to old threads. This one interests me.

    I totally reject the word "sedevacantism". It really is not an ISM at all. It is really just "Catholicism"; that ISM which includes the fact that a pope can become a heretic and automatically cease to be pope. Just because someone believes a fact has happened within Catholicism doesn't create a brand new ISM.

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    Offline songbird

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #67 on: Yesterday at 06:37:15 PM »
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    • Friend: thank you for your post.  Yes, a Pope can go wrong in his pontificate.  Pope Leo XIII and cardinal Manning went over this: is it possible for a pope to go wrong in his pontificate.  Did Our Lady not say to Sister Lucia, 1931, Pope XI did not heed God's request to consecrate Russia?  She did refer to pope and then said, Pope Pius XI would be like King Louis XIV, dethroned, for not consecrating France to the Sacred Heart. And he was beheaded.  Without the Pope the Church was beheaded.
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    Online St Giles

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #68 on: Yesterday at 09:21:30 PM »
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    • Quote from: Matthew on November 20, 2025, 12:02:56 PM
    Let's put it this way:

    Even if I were someday convinced that the See is vacant, I would nevertheless reject "sedevacantism" wholeheartedly. I would avoid Sedevacantist chapels for their sectarianism. I would reject the sedevacantist identity/movement, and adhere instead to the "plain vanilla" Traditional Movement. I would continue to treat the Pope question as a personal opinion, etc.

    I would continue to consider the same things to be important:

    Tridentine Mass
    Catholic Faith as it was taught, believed, and practiced before Vatican II
    Training of the priest, his attitude towards Vatican II and the new Conciliar religion
    Validity of his ordination (including the bishop who ordained him)

    Those are the only things the "sedevacantists" are doing right -- in other words, the Traditional Movement. They get no extra cred for their rejection of the recent popes. Because it has solved nothing, and done nothing positive for the Faithful or the Church.
    Good thread.

    For the sake of exposure of the topic to new viewers of CI, how about a thread about the biggest reason(s) you are not an Indulter?
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    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
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    Offline MiracleOfTheSun

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #69 on: Yesterday at 10:48:08 PM »
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    • A small part of what helped me into sedevecanstism was the continuous railing against it.  It was, and is, the last great taboo.  Like Michael Matt said in a video a while back, "Sedevacantism just isn't strategic.  Do you know how many people we would alienate...?"  lol  It just ain't a good strategy boys.  It just ain't popular enough.
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    Online St Giles

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #70 on: Today at 01:34:59 AM »
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    • That doesn't sound like a good reason. Truth is what matters, not how favorable or unfavorable something is.
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    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"

    Offline Crayolcold

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #71 on: Today at 08:53:16 AM »
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    • Quote from: Matthew on November 12, 2025, 10:54:47 AM
    I understand the point of the author in your blurb, but it doesn't explain the justification why "sedevacantists" have to go off and have their own chapels, keep to themselves, avoid associating with non-sedevacantist Traditional Catholics, etc.
    This is not what I see at all within CMRI chapels. I think the SSPV and RCI have left a bad taste in your mouth. You seem to be discounting sedeism primarily due to what you view as sede clerical arrogance. Priests in the SSPX or resistance can be as standoffish towards those of the sede persuasion as those are to them.

    In fact, I have more often seen SSPX parishioners ostracize friends and family for becoming sede than the other way around. If you want to talk about who is trying to monopolize the trad movement, look at the SSPX and resistance, not the CMRI.
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    Offline Everlast22

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #72 on: Today at 09:12:47 AM »
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    • Quote from: Crayolcold on Today at 08:53:16 AM
    In fact, I have more often seen SSPX parishioners ostracize friends and family for becoming sede than the other way around. 
    100 percent.

    I think I know more sympathetic indults, and NO's than I do SSPXer's in regards to attitude's towards sedes
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    Offline Crayolcold

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #73 on: Today at 10:28:29 AM »
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    • Quote from: JeanBaptistedeCouetus on November 21, 2025, 09:22:04 PM
    Father Cekada was expelled by Archbishop Lefebvre.

    While Lefebvre occasionally used strong language condemning Modernist Romes errors he never denied the papacy or broke communion with the Church.
    Do you really think that Abp Lefebvre would see himself as holding communion with men he declared were “exommunicated” and “antichrists”
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    Offline MiracleOfTheSun

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #74 on: Today at 12:45:12 PM »
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    • Quote from: St Giles on Today at 01:34:59 AM
    That doesn't sound like a good reason. Truth is what matters, not how favorable or unfavorable something is.

    For St. Giles it might not sound like a good reason but it's actually another sign supporting its veracity as Truth is exactly the thing which is continually lambasted and attacked. 
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