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Author Topic: The biggest reason I'm not Sede  (Read 1009 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
« Reply #15 on: Today at 12:09:53 PM »
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  • Pope Benedict XIV, Ex quo primum tempore:

    Emphasis mine.

    EDIT: the quote above not only applies to the priest celebrating una cuм, but also to the faithful assisting at such a Mass ("Orate fratres ut meum ac vestrum sacrificium...").

    The Sacrifice in question is the sacrifice of Christ Himself, not anything personal from the priest officiating. God is not offended when you unite yourself with the sacrifice being offered up by the Priest.

    And yes, Catholics are pious and good for asserting their Catholicism, which (might I remind you) involves submission to the Pope. There's a name for those who cut themselves off from the Pope -- schismatics.

    It seems strange now to acknowledge and submit to a Pope. But that is THE MOST CATHOLIC of attitudes. Bet that sounds strange at first, doesn't it? I suppose 62 years of "no Pope" will do that to you.

    You see, that's another reason I would NEVER become sedevacantist. The whole point of the Traditional Movement is to KEEP THE FAITH during the Crisis in the Church. If I emerge from the Crisis with a punch-card full of hundreds of Tridentine Masses attended, but have completely lost my Catholic sense when it comes to needing a Pope -- what good was the whole lifeboat? If I end up dying immediately after leaving the lifeboat and going on shore?

    I have to choose the *safest* and most *prudent* path during the Crisis -- the one that will see me still Catholic when it is all over. And based on the holiness of Abp Lefebvre, I'm going with his position. I'm willing to bet my endless eternity on it.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #16 on: Today at 12:12:29 PM »
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  • We've attracted a DOGMATIC SEDEVACANTIST and DOGMATIC HOME-ALONER here!


    Quote
    My real name: Rogelio Caballero.

    My personal posture: Paul VI and his successors lack(ed) papal authority. NO orders must be considered invalid. A Mass where a false Pope is conmemorated is "tainted with sacrilege and the crime of capital schism" - Fr. Guérard des Lauriers. Episcopal consecrations without Apostolic mandate are an "offense against the unity of the Church" - Pope Pius XII, Ad Apostolorum Principis.

    He thinks the whole Traditional Movement is not legitimate, because the various Trad bishops (+ABL, SSPX bishops, Sede bishops, etc.) didn't have Papal Mandate for their consecrations. See where this Una cuм nonsense leads?

    The Traditional Movement is the answer. NOT staying at home for 60 years doing nothing but praying and waiting around for the Second Coming. We need Mass, we need the Sacraments.

    The Catholic Faith is a habit of life. If you cease to practice the Catholic Faith, you will cease to be Catholic. It's simple. How can you stay Catholic without practicing your Faith for decades?

    And don't give me that "Japanese Hidden Christians" nonsense. They were in VERY sad shape. They kept a faint memory of a couple basic dogmas (priestly celibacy, etc.) and not much more. I shudder to think how many of them lost their souls. Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer likes to quote the Hidden Christians because it goes well with his own Home Aloner agenda. The Hidden Christians are the "patron saint" of Home Aloners and Home Aloneism-promoters.

    I have no respect OR devotion to these so-called "hidden Christians". Why would I? They weren't saints, they might have all gone to hell for all we know. We should NOT base our current actions on what these particular Japanese did, nor follow their path.

    They used a Buddhist goddess statue, but secretly calling it Mary. But after centuries of using a Buddhist goddess statue, guess what happened? Many of them lost the Faith. THE FAITH IS A HABIT OF LIFE.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #17 on: Today at 12:22:39 PM »
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  • Here are your "hidden Christians". Read through to the end:

    Approximately 30,000 secret Christians, some of whom had adopted these new ways of practicing Christianity, came out of hiding when religious freedom was re-established in 1873 after the Meiji Restoration. The Kakure Kirishitan became known as Mukashi Kirishitan (昔キリシタン), or 'ancient Christians', and emerged not only from traditional Christian areas in Kyushu, but also from other rural areas of Japan.[1]
    Some Kakure Kirishitan did not rejoin the Catholic Church, and became known as the Hanare Kirishitan (離れキリシタン, 'separated Christians').[1][3] Hanare Kirishitan are now primarily found in Urakami and on the Gotō Islands.[2]
    In the early 1990s, anthropologist Christal Whelan discovered some Hanare Kirishitan still living on the Gotō Islands where Kakure Kirishitan had once fled. There were only two surviving priests on the islands, both of whom were over 90, and they would not talk to each other. The few surviving laity had also reached old age, and some of them no longer had any priests from their lineage and prayed alone. Although these Hanare Kirishitan had a strong tradition of secrecy, they agreed to be filmed for Whelan's docuмentary Otaiya.[6]
    The Kakure Kirishitan still exist today, forming "what is arguably a separate faith, barely recognizable as the creed imported in the mid-1500s by Catholic missionaries".[3] In 2025, it was reported that there were less than 100 Hidden Christians left on the island of Ikitsuki in Nagasaki, down from 10,000 in the 1940s.[7]
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    Offline UbiCaritas

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #18 on: Today at 12:28:58 PM »
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  • Yes- this is the only problem I have with certain Sede groups-
    That they say a Resistance TLM Mass is is invalid because of "una-cuм".

    They may have an option of saying it's illicit , but saying the entire Mass is invalid is really outside of their "wheelhouse" so to speak.
    To me they have no authority to say a validly ordained Traditional priest is saying an invalid Tradition Mass because of naming "una cuм".


    I don't like the una cuм either, but I will go to valid una cuм Masses with validly ordained priests.

    Someone tell me where "una cuм" actually invalidates the Mass and where I can find this information, please.
    Do you know the difference between illicit and invalid? I think you are confused.

    Offline Everlast22

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #19 on: Today at 01:15:22 PM »
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  • One of the biggest differences I see between Sede trads and non-Sede trads (I'll include indult, here) is the Jєωιѕн/SOS red pill revelation. Ex., What they are behind, from the early days of the renaissance to now, the infiltration, and they correlation with Apocalypse and the crisis in the Church. I actually came into tradition by learning about the J's first. Just a thing to ponder.

    Please realize 60-70 percent of all trads at sede chapels do not agree with Una-cuм stance. Trust me, they don't. The ones that are dogmatic sedes are the brown-nosers at Church (we know who they are) and A LOT of them came from Novus Ordo. 

    I think the Sede split is in 3 parts as of today:

    Non-Una cuм Sede Dogmatics, (pick and choose pius XII changes, no talking to SSPX girls, etc., cliquey types)

    Non-dogmatic sedes, which is most of sedes in 2025 (Believe heretics can't be pope, and would not lead faithful into perdition, are friendly to SSPX, etc.)

    Non +Thuc line because of x,y,z (combination of both?, mostly SSPV)




    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #20 on: Today at 02:53:50 PM »
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  • I understand the point of the author in your blurb, but it doesn't explain the justification why "sedevacantists" have to go off and have their own chapels, keep to themselves, avoid associating with non-sedevacantist Traditional Catholics, etc.

    It's a conclusion, yes. But not an infallible dogma. It's a private opinion at best. You don't condemn or shun others for having a different opinion from you.
    It might start out as an opinion or theory, but it doesn't end there. Most often it morphs or evolves into an all necessary truth, a  dogmatic certainty, even for priests and bishops who should know better - and are expected to know better. 

    I hope they are right.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Austin01

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #21 on: Today at 02:54:35 PM »
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  • From my observation, one cause of division is demonising the intentions of people with differing view points.

    For example a non dogmatic sede accusing an sspxer of disagreeing with him because of dishonesty, pride, stubbornness or some other evil, and vice versa from sspxers to sedes.

    When in reality they fail to consider that people may genuinely disagree with them in good faith. Some may disagree because they really see their argument as logically sound, whilst truly believing yours is irrational (even if they are wrong). 

    Offline St Giles

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #22 on: Today at 05:35:15 PM »
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  • From my observation, one cause of division is demonising the intentions of people with differing view points.

    For example a non dogmatic sede accusing an sspxer of disagreeing with him because of dishonesty, pride, stubbornness or some other evil, and vice versa from sspxers to sedes.

    When in reality they fail to consider that people may genuinely disagree with them in good faith. Some may disagree because they really see their argument as logically sound, whilst truly believing yours is irrational (even if they are wrong).
    This reminds me of how the FE/GE discussions go. Any dogmatic FE's here?
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"


    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #23 on: Today at 06:44:33 PM »
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  • Do you know the difference between illicit and invalid? I think you are confused.
    Of course I do-
    illicit meaning breaking "the rules" of some particular authority- in this case Sede Bishops, without their permission;
    and invalid meaning the Mass was sacramentally null and void.
    Is this a test?

    Offline SimonJude

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    Re: The biggest reason I'm not Sede
    « Reply #24 on: Today at 10:13:47 PM »
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  • I attend the Masses of Fr. David Hewko.  He doesn't share my positions regarding Leo XIV and Jorge Bergoglio.  He holds them as popes.
    I encourage you to avoid Fr. Hewko. (The elder).